When do you see the demise of the combustion engine?

rjbell

rjbell

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Thought this would be a interesting thread.

How far off are we in battery technology to eliminate electric cars shortcoming like range, cost, and charge times?

Where will this leave the classic car market?
 
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Hydrogen too. I believe that will eventually be the way
 
Battery technology is still a long way off in terms of costs and efficiency; resources such as charging points are still fairly few and far between. Universal adoption of electric cars is decades away I think. With ever tighter Euro emissions regulations I'd expect to see hybrids becoming the norm within a decade or so. Engines need very little modification to run on hydrogen, so if a push to install the infrastructure and ramp up production took place, then we could continue with internal combustion indefinitely.
 
Not sure that electric 'planes will ever take off (sorry!) as a mass transport solution. Might see more electric road vehicles before too long though. Classic cars etc. might end up as static display objects but I think that some will be kept going until suitable fuel runs out.
 
Do you think the lkes of apple and google being the future of car manufacturing or will the current car manufactures keep there stronghold?
 
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rjbell said:
Thought this would be a interesting thread.

How far off are we in battery technology to eliminate electric cars shortcoming like range, cost, and charge times?

Where will this leave the classic car market?
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Not for a long time yet. Battery powered cars need charging over night for long distances. In the same way that horses were rested overnight in coaching inns for long journeys. No doubt it will come one day but not for a while !
 
no for a while yet but emmissions controls will get incredible in the nest 10 years and with lightweight carbon fibre technology.
I think we will see really impressive cars that will achieve 100 mpg with almost zero emmisions but cars are going to cost a lot more.
 
Hydrogen cars are starting to get there (pun) Honda's Clarity has a range of 400 miles on a 'tank' full. Still a long way to go of course, there would need to be serious investment in refuelling points to make hydrogen a viable prospect.
 
Don't forget it's only cars that use them. They also power generators, pumps, ect. So will probably be around for some time yet.
 
The problem is that Electric cars and hydrogen cars are using second generation energy. Electricity has to be generated and hydrogen made.
Some sort of fuel cell is probably the best option to generating the necessary electric power. It only needs to be capable of keeping a battery reservoir topped up, and not necessarily produce variable power.
 
Mr Bump said:
no for a while yet but emmissions controls will get incredible in the nest 10 years and with lightweight carbon fibre technology.
I think we will see really impressive cars that will achieve 100 mpg with almost zero emmisions but cars are going to cost a lot more.
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Not necessarily so, many car manufacturers are working with specialist companies to allow carbon fibre to be mass produced. This will mean less to zero waste compared with steel panel production. If anything it could make them cheaper.

As for the internal combustion engine, no it hasn't had it's day yet, there are advances being made all the time, making them more frugal, cleaner and smaller whilst producing more power.
 
When they stop making you pay to lease the batteries and have an included 100k 10 year warranty with them.

Second hand zoes have the battery lease so you buy the car then find you have to pay another £500+ a year minimum to even use the thing as Renault can remotely disable them if the lease isn't paid.

It is interesting to see just how cheap the EV cars are when they're second hand. The leaf is about £30k new. Within 3 years they're down to about £7-8k. You can get pre regs for half the list price. They're over priced and unwanted at the moment.

Normal fuel cars won't die. Hybrids are a far better answer. You remove pollution in the stop start traffic but allow unlimited range. The lexus hybrids and pious are far better solutions.
 
I personally feel that petrol hybrids are still the future of the next few years, I desperately want diesel o die a death and feel it has no place in our towns and cities due to its massive pollution issues. regardless how much its cleaned and scrubbed. Also I think we will see better leccy cars soon maybe more incentives. I still think a small fiesta sized car with basic safety and 150 mile range for say 15k max with a battery warranty of 5 years will win people round. at the moment the car manufactures are just aiming to high.
 
srichards said:
When they stop making you pay to lease the batteries and have an included 100k 10 year warranty with them.

Second hand zoes have the battery lease so you buy the car then find you have to pay another £500+ a year minimum to even use the thing as Renault can remotely disable them if the lease isn't paid.

It is interesting to see just how cheap the EV cars are when they're second hand. The leaf is about £30k new. Within 3 years they're down to about £7-8k. You can get pre regs for half the list price. They're over priced and unwanted at the moment.

Normal fuel cars won't die. Hybrids are a far better answer. You remove pollution in the stop start traffic but allow unlimited range. The lexus hybrids and pious are far better solutions.
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Nissan website says its £16k OTR?

I agree they do seem over priced. The batteries are expensive but surely they're making savings elsewhere? Much less labour intensive to build i would imagine?
 
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rjbell said:
Nissan website says its £16k OTR?

I agree they do seem over priced. The batteries are expensive but surely they're making savings elsewhere? Much less labour intensive to build i would imagine?
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They are £16k for base model. That doesn't include the battery. You have to rent that on top. They're another £5k if you want the battery! The top model now is £25k if you want the battery (including 5k plug in grant) so list is effectively still £30k.
 
electric cars will only make head roads when you can drive 500 miles on a charge and then get it recharged in 5 mins or a new battery for the next 500 miles. i must say a 1000 would be better plus carry 4 people and luggage to spain or france
 
When manufacturers struggle to create a 0.5cc 1 cylinder direct injection turbocharged/supercharged engine that sips fuel but still produces 100+ ponies
 
srichards said:
They are £16k for base model. That doesn't include the battery. You have to rent that on top. They're another £5k if you want the battery! The top model now is £25k if you want the battery (including 5k plug in grant) so list is effectively still £30k.
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Wow that's bonkers price! How can they get away with saying on the road price!
 
rjbell said:
Wow that's bonkers price! How can they get away with saying on the road price!
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It is in the small print and they have the battery lease and battery buy prices on the website.

I can't find the good deals they had. They seem to be wanting £12k over 2 years.

boliston said:
a battery is a fuel tank not fuel
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I don't rent the fuel tank in my car. It comes with the car as it is utterly useless without one. That's why battery leasing annoys me. It's just a way to disguise how over priced these cars are for what they actually do...
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
The problem is that Electric cars and hydrogen cars are using second generation energy. Electricity has to be generated and hydrogen made.
Some sort of fuel cell is probably the best option to generating the necessary electric power. It only needs to be capable of keeping a battery reservoir topped up, and not necessarily produce variable power.
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This!

There is no point getting rid, when all you do is shift the location of the problem.
 
wave01 said:
electric cars will only make head roads when you can drive 500 miles on a charge and then get it recharged in 5 mins or a new battery for the next 500 miles. i must say a 1000 would be better plus carry 4 people and luggage to spain or france
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I think that is way overspecced and unrealistic. None of my current cars have that kind of reach and it isn't a problem. Nearly always drive to Spain or Italy.
 
My current b200 does 500 miles on a tank with ease so did my previous Toyota Prius. So I don't think that I am asking to much from new technology
 
we just need to carry on taxing emmissions to death, the car industry will then provide solutions.
at the moment they can continue to sell the rubbish they sell as its just not costing the users anything.

until anying over 100g/km is £1000/year we won't see the industry get its act together.
 
Henry Ford once said something like, "if I'd asked people what they wanted, they'd have said 'faster horses'".

I wonder if the whole 'greener cars' thing is similar, and someone will suddenly shock the world with some new thinking: a fresh idea completely 'out of left field', as Henry Ford did with his motor car.
 
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Mr Bump said:
we just need to carry on taxing emmissions to death, the car industry will then provide solutions.
at the moment they can continue to sell the rubbish they sell as its just not costing the users anything.

until anying over 100g/km is £1000/year we won't see the industry get its act together.
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I think you need to look into modern cars and engines more, loads of manufacturers have sub 100g/km cars. You can even buy large cars that don't produce a lot more. Manufacturers are cleaning up their engines all the time, with cylinder deactivation when power isn't needed, direct injection and pfi, again to reduce emissions when the power isn't required, stop start, the list is growing all the time.
 
rjbell said:
Do you think the lkes of apple and google being the future of car manufacturing or will the current car manufactures keep there stronghold?
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it would be good if car travel could be funded via advertising like the web is - a vehicle would take you 'for free' to your destination but there would be video screens with targeted ads inside the vehicle and you would have to option to 'subscribe' for ad-free travel
 
nilagin said:
I think you need to look into modern cars and engines more, loads of manufacturers have sub 100g/km cars. You can even buy large cars that don't produce a lot more. Manufacturers are cleaning up their engines all the time, with cylinder deactivation when power isn't needed, direct injection and pfi, again to reduce emissions when the power isn't required, stop start, the list is growing all the time.
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Oh I know that, it just needs to filter through, you are talking about modern cars.

what about all the old s*** on the road and of course all those dirty VW's

if we keep hammering the emmsions in 10 years time x% of the cars on the road will be sooooo much cleaner.
 
wave01 said:
My current b200 does 500 miles on a tank with ease so did my previous Toyota Prius. So I don't think that I am asking to much from new technology
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Really we had a Prius and it barely did 470 miles on its tiny little tank. But the car was so rubbish that I never have a Toyota again; tiny and plastics. Replaced by out anti Prius; a Mercedes GL AMG.

Currently got a two year old Golf; no chance. Got a 10 year old Audi; no chance. And got a two year old Mercedes GL AMG and whilst it can do that, it is only because it has a 95 litre tank.

Anyway new technology or not, it hasn't stopped currently technology from selling.
 
Checked the zoe prices and for 3000 miles a year you have to pay £540 a year for 3 years if you want the battery for 3 years. If you do it yearly then it's £780! If you work out fuel costs in a 50 mpg petrol car
fuel is now about £5 a gallon for vpower or similar for a stinking diesel they're much less. I think it was about £300 for both.

At 3000 miles a year and £780 it's about 17mpg in vpower for the annual payment and about 25mpg for the 3 year. They don't make any financial sense whatsoever to me.
 
srichards said:
Checked the zoe prices and for 3000 miles a year you have to pay £540 a year for 3 years if you want the battery for 3 years. If you do it yearly then it's £780! If you work out fuel costs in a 50 mpg petrol car
fuel is now about £5 a gallon for vpower or similar for a stinking diesel they're much less. I think it was about £300 for both.

At 3000 miles a year and £780 it's about 17mpg in vpower for the annual payment and about 25mpg for the 3 year. They don't make any financial sense whatsoever to me.
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And that is without further depreciation taken into account. Our Prius was the worst car we've ever owned for depreciation. It was horrendous.
 
dejongj said:
Currently got a two year old Golf; no chance. Got a 10 year old Audi; no chance. And got a two year old Mercedes GL AMG and whilst it can do that, it is only because it has a 95 litre tank.
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What models and what engines manual or auto
 
If I could plug in the recharging Cable and in 10min. drive for at least another 400 miles might be interested but until then.....
 
wave01 said:
What models and what engines manual or auto
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It's irrelevant, lots of vehicles on the market today that do not have a 500 mile range that sell lots. I'm sure it's a valid use case for you, it just doesn't mean it is for everyone.

I would never have a Prius again, yes got 72mpg out of it when pulse and glide on the motorway. But struggled to get more than 50mpg around a typical uk hilly town. And then the petrol engine is revving like a lunatic to keep up.

I would consider a Tesla or BMW i8 but again no 500 minimum range. I really wouldn't want plastic filled slow small cars again.

When driving down we normally swap drivers seat every two hours or 200 miles for safety. And after two of those swaps it is no heartache to stop at a petrol station, get a coffee and croissant and stretch the legs in my opinion.
 
actually it is relevant you can't compare a the mpg of a 1.2ltr with that of a 4.2lrt.
 
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