What is this vogue ...?

PMN said:
That said, my point about me being a sound engineer was that after 20 years of working my backside off I'm not going to have some smug little git tell me what I can and can't call myself.
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From now on you're going to have to refer to yourself as a Knob Twiddler. Better get those new business cards ordered!


Steve.
 
ianp5a said:
There is a need to differentiate between the skills using a familiar term. However in the UK, engineer, has been used for other skills outside engineering. Therefore there is a need to clarify the difference. If I want an engineer to do an engineering job, many people might think I mean a technician.

Regarding young engineers: No oldie minds working with young inexperienced graduates. It's just those few know-it-all big mouths that irk everyone.

Regarding old experienced codgers with no-qualifications: Many of them run rings round the inexperienced graduates and can do it in their sleep. Usually because they have an open mind and have been learning for 30 years. But you will find a few who's mind is not open and feel the need to put the new guys down.

It's not your age. It's you attitude.
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Absolutely 100% agree, that's kind of the point I wanted to make when I said this entire debate is kinda pointless but you worded it much better than me!
 
Right, this irks me. I hold a BEng degree and I worked bloody hard for it. I worked for over a decade as a Professional Engineer in the oil and gas industry, doing Very Hard Sums and helping to build big, dangerous things. I belonged to professional associations and had my career not taken me in other directions, I'd have become chartered.

I can use CAD, weld, use a lathe and a milling machine and I'm a dab hand with a variety of other machine tools. I know about engines and how to build and mend them. But those skills have nothing whatsoever to do with what I learned at university.

By anyone's definition, I'm an Engineer. But I believe passionately that the bloke in his shed who builds the most amazing model steam engines or the kid in the hackspace who makes revolutionary new 3D printers are also Engineers. You are what you can do.

As others have said: see also Photographer.
 
droj said:
I've noticed a remarkable number of obviously non-professional photographers calling themselves (and what's worse, watermarking their photos) with their name followed by the word 'photography'. It seems to be a new variant of vanity publishing. Why is it so prevalent? It would be wholly understandable from someone whose income comes from their work, promoting and reinforcing their business identity, but for an amateur ...?

I'm curious about the psychology involved.

And aesthetically, however tastefully done, a watermark is an irritating intrusion into the image space.
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When you get a few images used on web sites , birthday cards etc you may change your opinion ;-)
 
Lyope said:
... But those skills have nothing whatsoever to do with what I learned at university. ...
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Similarly, we didn't have any computers when I went to college. But these days computers are essential for the calculations in the engineering field I'm in. Likewise with photography. All that darkroom and enlarger experience and knowledge about chemicals and different film developing processes is wasted if you like the digital world.
 
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chromatin64 said:
"Doctor" isn't a protected title in the UK.

Anyone - and I mean, absolutely anyone - can call themselves "Doctor" whether they have a medical qualification or a PhD* or not.

What you cannot do is call yourself a "medical practitioner".

And another thing - most medically qualified doctors in the UK don't hold a doctorate at all. "Doctor" is a courtesy title that goes with their Bachelors degrees (usually two, sometimes three, but still Bachelors degrees and not doctorates). A sizeable minority do go on to study for an MD or a PhD but the medical hoi polloi are qualified to Bachelors level.

Anyway, as you were...



*Other doctorates are available
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What's with dentists titling themselves "Dr" these days?

I have a PhD but I only use the title in my professional life - oh, and also when winding up my medical "doctor" friends about them not being real doctors.
 
ghoti said:
What's with dentists titling themselves "Dr" these days?

I have a PhD but I only use the title in my professional life - oh, and also when winding up my medical "doctor" friends about them not being real doctors.
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Good question Dr Fish. The dentists are merely exercising their right to label themselves "Doctor" without any earned doctorate. Just like medical doctors do.

But this is odd since dentists are actually surgeons and in the UK, medically qualified surgeons title themselves as "Mr", "Mrs", "Miss" or "Ms" as they evolved from barbers rather than apothecaries. (In Scotland, surgeons go by "Mr", "Mrs", "Miss" or "Ms" unless they're obstetricians & gynaecologists or ophthalmologists when they use "Doctor").
 
chromatin64 said:
Good question Dr Fish. The dentists are merely exercising their right to label themselves "Doctor" without any earned doctorate. Just like medical doctors do.

But this is odd since dentists are actually surgeons and in the UK, medically qualified surgeons title themselves as "Mr", "Mrs", "Miss" or "Ms" as they evolved from barbers rather than apothecaries. (In Scotland, surgeons go by "Mr", "Mrs", "Miss" or "Ms" unless they're obstetricians & gynaecologists or ophthalmologists when they use "Doctor").
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Medical "doctors" are bachelors of surgery too (MBChB).
 
ianp5a said:
It's not your age. It's you attitude.
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Exactly, and that doesn't just mean the crusty, entrenched oldies. It's also relevant to a lot of the grads coming through the system. I can quite honestly say that the old guard where I am contain some of the most knowledgeable, helpful and nicest people I know, of course you will always get one stick in the mud, but you get that everywhere. The grads however seem to have more than their fair share of arrogant know it alls. Mind you I put that down to the filtering process and what they have to do to get in, it requires a certain mindset. That being said we have some seriously smart and talented grads who will no doubt rise through the ranks and fair play to them.
 
Egos, eh!?!? Where would we be without them lol ;-)
 
Here's from one of the guilty ones! Here's the "psychology involved."

I own webspace for something else. I wanted my own website name for my photography blog and domain names are cheap. My name is Ivor, my hobby is photography and so the website name is ivorphotography.co.uk. It's easy to remember if I am telling anyone who wants to take a look at my snaps. (I don't have or want business cards.) If I were a stamp collector my website would probably be ivorphilaterly and ivorcamponolgy if i were a bell ringer.

I have no intention of being a professional, I take photos for fun and to share with a few friends using social media such as Google+ and Facebook and as part of a challenge through another forum.

I went through a short spell of watermarking my online pictures because of a heightened awareness of images being borrowed without permission. But I stopped because I realised it would be easy enough to remove it again. Also, the watermark detracted from the image and it would not deter a thief. Actually, if anyone thought an image of mine was worth using it would be a kind of compliment! It has happened to me, the person wasn't making money from using it, I didn't object. (I can hear the gasps of horror!)

Ivor
 
Ivor said:
Here's from one of the guilty ones! Here's the "psychology involved."

I own webspace for something else. I wanted my own website name for my photography blog and domain names are cheap. My name is Ivor, my hobby is photography and so the website name is ivorphotography.co.uk. It's easy to remember if I am telling anyone who wants to take a look at my snaps. (I don't have or want business cards.) If I were a stamp collector my website would probably be ivorphilaterly and ivorcamponolgy if i were a bell ringer.

I have no intention of being a professional, I take photos for fun and to share with a few friends using social media such as Google+ and Facebook and as part of a challenge through another forum.

I went through a short spell of watermarking my online pictures because of a heightened awareness of images being borrowed without permission. But I stopped because I realised it would be easy enough to remove it again. Also, the watermark detracted from the image and it would not deter a thief. Actually, if anyone thought an image of mine was worth using it would be a kind of compliment! It has happened to me, the person wasn't making money from using it, I didn't object. (I can hear the gasps of horror!)

Ivor
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And there's not a thing wrong with that.
 
Lyope said:
You are what you can do.
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Exactly. When I'm laying bricks, I'm a bricklayer. When I'm plumbing, I'm a plumber. When I'm engineering, I'm an engineer. When I'm acting like an idiot, that's not acting.

ghoti said:
oh, and also when winding up my medical "doctor" friends about them not being real doctors.
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My son is training to be a paramedic. He likes to wind up non medical doctors by telling them they're not the useful type of doctor and referring to them as mister.

ianp5a said:
But these days computers are essential for the calculations in the engineering field.
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When did this happen? I usually use pen and paper... or if I have to, a calculator.


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
Exactly. When I'm laying bricks, I'm a bricklayer. When I'm plumbing, I'm a plumber. When I'm engineering, I'm an engineer. When I'm acting like an idiot, that's not acting.



My son is training to be a paramedic. He likes to wind up non medical doctors by telling them they're not the useful type of doctor and referring to them as mister.
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The non-medical doctors discover the knowledge and develop the tech for the medic monkeys to use. But we'll allow them think they're the "useful" doctors. It's cute, and there's no harm in letting them feel like they're important. As long as they don't start messing around in my lab...





(friendly rivalry among colleagues, of course; I'm not being serious)
 
ghoti said:
The non-medical doctors discover the knowledge and develop the tech for the medic monkeys to use. But we'll allow them think they're the "useful" doctors. It's cute, and there's no harm in letting them feel like they're important. As long as they don't start messing around in my lab...





(friendly rivalry among colleagues, of course; I'm not being serious)
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I used to have my very own little army of "proper doctors" who ran around and did my bidding, gathering data and measuring stuff so I could have the ideas and insights that informed them which bit of tech needed developing.

(Actually, it was this sort of attitude that meant I left my post-doc post to go and read medicine in the first place).
 
chromatin64 said:
I used to have my very own little army of "proper doctors" who ran around and did my bidding, gathering data and measuring stuff so I could have the ideas and insights that informed them which bit of tech needed developing.

(Actually, it was this sort of attitude that meant I left my post-doc post to go and read medicine in the first place).
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That and the short term contracts with only dim and distant prospect of tenure, I'll wager.

Anyway, the medics I occasionally work with are pretty much all brilliant. I'm not a clinical scientist though, so I'm not actually involved with many clinicians on a day-to-day, practical level.
 
ghoti said:
That and the short term contracts with only dim and distant prospect of tenure, I'll wager.
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Yup.

ghoti said:
Anyway, the medics I occasionally work with are pretty much all brilliant. I'm not a clinical scientist though, so I'm not actually involved with many clinicians on a day-to-day, practical level.
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The stupid thing now is that many medics have to do research degrees to get on in their careers simply because everyone else is; "research" needs to go on the CV to climb the greasy pole.

This means a lot of salami slicing by people who want to be doctors and not researchers and a sizeable chunk of ho-hum research.
 
chromatin64 said:
Yup.



The stupid thing now is that many medics have to do research degrees to get on in their careers simply because everyone else is; "research" needs to go on the CV to climb the greasy pole.

This means a lot of salami slicing by people who want to be doctors and not researchers and a sizeable chunk of ho-hum research.
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I've not worked with any qualified medics doing real research degrees, but in recent years we have been sent a handful of undergrad medical students who are doing some kind of one year BSc within their MBChB. So they come to us to do a sort of basic research project (usually optimisation or running a handful of small day-to-day experiments). A lot of them feel it's expected of them and they need it for their CV, which seems a bit of a shame.
 
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Steve Smith said:
ianp5a said:
But these days computers are essential for the calculations in the engineering field.
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When did this happen? I usually use pen and paper... or if I have to, a calculator.
Steve.
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You changed my quote. It read "... in the engineering field I'm in."
We simulate car crashes with millions of calculations on 3D data. We'd run out of paper.
 
ianp5a said:
You changed my quote. It read "... in the engineering field I'm in."
We simulate car crashes with millions of calculations on 3D data. We'd run out of paper.
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I know I did... but you could do it on paper.

My father once told me how many sheets of paper a Leica designer used for lens calculations. I can't remember which lens, or the actual amount, but it would have taken a small forest of trees to make it.


Steve.
 
OK.. I've been paying close attention to this thread, and taken it all on board and thinking of my branding etc...

I think I've nailed it.

What you reckon?

_DSC4620.jpg
 
I thought I'd go for subtle elegance.
 
I just watermark my photos with the copyright C and my name. My photos aren't good enough to worry too much yet (although I've sold a few in one way or another) but hopefully one day I will take one that someone really wants to buy/use. Having the watermark to me just says 'this is my work, you can look but that's it'.

As for the words photography and photographer, well that's just a description of what you are doing. If I was a keen gardener and I wanted to start a gardening website, I wouldn't just call it Raptor Mike, I'd call it Raptor mike Gardening or Raptor Mike Gardener.

At the end of the day it's not like people are putting letters after their name they don't have.
 
droj said:
I've noticed a remarkable number of obviously non-professional photographers calling themselves (and what's worse, watermarking their photos) with their name followed by the word 'photography'. It seems to be a new variant of vanity publishing. Why is it so prevalent? It would be wholly understandable from someone whose income comes from their work, promoting and reinforcing their business identity, but for an amateur ...?

I'm curious about the psychology involved.
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I make this same argument about personalised number plates, something that I really don't get.

A watermark does say, 'hey if you like this picture, I have some more here if you would like to see them.' It's no different to people putting a link to their images on the bottom of their forum posts. Anyone who posts a picture online is hoping others will look at it and appreciate their art.

Yes it is a bit like vanity publishing, but George Orwell, Tom Clancy and Beatrix Potter all self published.

Ivor
 
That would just be showing off! Less is more :)
 
Hang on, where's the colour pop?!
 
robhooley167 said:
Hang on, where's the colour pop?!
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Ahhh.... I see I have failed. How could I miss such an important part of any reputable photographer's arsenal.

I am not worthy.
 
Ivor said:
I make this same argument about personalised number plates, something that I really don't get.
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....In my case it gives my ride an identity and not some characterless gobblygook official registration imposed on us by authority. It also pays homage to my beloved car and not to me personally, although it has resulted in me achieving a certain amount of fame.

RED_Tow_front.jpg


Ivor said:
A watermark does say, 'hey if you like this picture, I have some more here if you would like to see them.' It's no different to people putting a link to their images on the bottom of their forum posts. Anyone who posts a picture online is hoping others will look at it and appreciate their art.

Yes it is a bit like vanity publishing, but George Orwell, Tom Clancy and Beatrix Potter all self published.

Ivor
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....I totally agree.

Also, it's valuable advertising if you are a professional relying on income from it. It usually gives confidence to a potential customer/client by the suggestion that you are qualified.

I occasionally put a signature on my photos or graphic creations but not for any particular reason except perhaps for vanity or because I'm proud of the image. Or want to promote something.

Broad-bodiedChaser_7373R.jpg
 
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