Well, where do we all stand on Reds?

fracster

fracster

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Ade
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On this subject, Here?

I have my own points of view and have posted in this section to see what others think, if it is a taboo subject for the admin and mods, then,fair enough, delete it. I thought it may be worthy of discussion........:)
 
Another sad result of introducing an alien species here in the first place, which has had devastating consequences for our own red squirrel population. :shrug:
 
There was a story in the Metro or MEN, can't remember which, the other day which said that 5 reds that had been found dead were tested...and they had died of causes which were not related to the disease the greys carry.

In fact the 5 squirrels actually had developed a resistance to the disease, so in that manner I do believe they are becoming stronger. However this won't protect totally as they greys are still larger and therefore in a better position to take over territory. But it is a good sign :)

BBC story :)
 
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CT said:
Another sad result of introducing an alien species here in the first place, which has had devastating consequences for our own red squirrel population. :shrug:
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No argument from me CT, where do you stand on the trapping and control of greys?

Don`t answer that if you prefer not to.......:)
 
I've got no problems with it. :shrug:

We're getting the same problem with Canada geese which are thriving everywhere and becoming a nuisance to the detriment of native species.
 
Well not particularly related to Red Squirrels, but i feel it's a shame when any species faces extinction.

It's especially disheartening when it's us Humans that are either so arrogant that we feel our needs are greater than other species, or, are so apathetic that we can't really be arsed to change our comfortable lifestyles for the greater good.

Regarding the Red Squirrels; maybe I'm a sentimental 'townie' but i think that people should do what they can to protect a native species of the country.

S
 
When we moved into our current house some 16 years ago there were a few reds but now there are none. We have heaps of greys and they are becoming a problem.
 
SteveJB said:
Well not particularly related to Red Squirrels, but i feel it's a shame when any species faces extinction.

It's especially disheartening when it's us Humans that are either so arrogant that we feel our needs are greater than other species, or, are so apathetic that we can't really be arsed to change our comfortable lifestyles for the greater good.

Regarding the Red Squirrels; maybe I'm a sentimental 'townie' but i think that people should do what they can to protect a native species of the country.

S
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The reds are only nearing extinction due to the introduction of greys. Very little to do with human activity, other than introducing greys initially.
 
This is quite interesting reading ...

ZSL find new hope for the red squirrel

I would like to see both live alongside each other but if push comes to shove and the squirrel pox can be controlled, then I'd like to see the Reds return. If not, I dont think I'd like to see no squirrels at all.
 
fracster said:
No argument from me CT, where do you stand on the trapping and control of greys?

Don`t answer that if you prefer not to.......:)
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I'm assuming that 'trapping and control' is a fluffy way of saying catching and killing? It's a tough choice to make; taking the life of one species to save the life of another? Morally it's not a choice that 'we' should make as naturally the strongest species will survive. It's just typical that humans have interfered and artificially introduced the stronger species.

Do we then have an obligation to right our wrong? I would say yes, but I would also say that it should only be in certain areas to help protect a specific area with a view of maintaining balance.

S
 
Any reason that a particular thread on wildlife and animals has been moved to the OOf amongst cars, rap and such like?

None intended......:)
 
Interesting Ade, just to flip this around
There are enough people out there that consider Greys a pest species for me to get several calls a week
mostly going into the autumn and coming out the other side of the winter, and indeed during the warmer days.
As most people will know they are not true hibenators, but go into a "torper"

Once they settle in a roof space and sleep they are quite harmless.
but in the interim period they chew all sorts of good things like wiring, water pipes & water tanks
( I have seen the ( water) damage this causes first hand)
and pull up roof insulation to build their nests.
Of course the other problem with them is when they start moving around at 3 / 4am
It sounds as though they are wearing hobnailed boots, in the dead of night.
I even get calls not because of the damage but the "kids" are scared and think that there is "someone" or "something" moving around

I have two choices at this point
1) live trap
2) Fen MK 4
Both are very effcient at what they do
It is ileagle to release a non-indigenous
species ( back) into the wild.
It is aslo ileagle to encourage, ( feed, entice) or keep as a pet Grey squirrels.

In the wild they "ring" young trees ( and not so young) killing a large percentage
they also rob nests of eggs and chicks ( both ground nesting birds and arborial nesters).
and of course they displace our natives.


 
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I didn`t know much of that Chris, thanks for the info........:thumbs:
 
fracster said:
Any reason that a particular thread on wildlife and animals has been moved to the OOf amongst cars, rap and such like?

None intended......:)
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I didnt move the thread, but its probably because its discussion about wildlife not photo critique ?

Ive got no problem controlling Grey Squirrels if it helps the native Reds, its the squirrel pox that the greys carry that kills reds, more than anything, not so much to do with strength, just the fact the greys are immune as they are carriers.
 
Fair comment Ian, I put this in the original section as I thought that people who had knowledge and experience on the subject would be more likely to see it in there and pass on thier thoughts.

No worries either way..........:)
 
fracster said:
Any reason that a particular thread on wildlife and animals has been moved to the OOf amongst cars, rap and such like?

None intended......:)
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Hi Fracster,
Ive moved the thread.
Theres no intent to trivialise your discussion, however 'Animals & Nature' is a picture sharing forum only, hence the move here. :)
 
It's evolution, survival of the fittest, we shouldn't go as far as trapping and killing greys, thats retarded.
 
InaGlo said:
Hi Fracster,
Ive moved the thread.
Theres no intent to trivialise your discussion, however 'Animals & Nature' is a picture sharing forum only, hence the move here. :)
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No problem, just thought "as my post above"............:)
 
Yantorsen said:
It's evolution, survival of the fittest, we shouldn't go as far as trapping and killing greys, thats retarded.
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How can it be evolution when one species was artificially introduced?
 
fracster said:
How can it be evolution when one species was artificially introduced?
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that's irelevent, the greys are superior, they survive, besides im not against protection of Reds, its just stupid to trap greys, just *** of there colour.... seems a bit racist :p
 
Yantorsen said:
that's irelevent, the greys are superior, they survive, besides im not against protection of Reds, its just stupid to trap greys, just *** of there colour.... seems a bit racist :p
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What is irrelevant? That greys are an introduced species, sorry but that argument holds no water at all. Your not against the protection of reds but are against the control of greys that harm the reds? Interesting thought process......:)
 
SteveJB said:
I'm assuming that 'trapping and control' is a fluffy way of saying catching and killing?
S
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I would not say that it is a fluffy way of saying it, more a factual way. The words mean the same however you read them.....:)
 
Yantorsen said:
that's irelevent, the greys are superior, they survive, besides im not against protection of Reds, its just stupid to trap greys, just *** of there colour.... seems a bit racist :p
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As fracster says, we're the root cause of the decline in the red population, therefore we surely have the responsibility to try and and rectify some of the error.

S
 
fracster said:
What is irrelevant? That greys are an introduced species, sorry but that argument holds no water at all. Your not against the protection of reds but are against the control of greys that harm the reds? Interesting thought process......:)
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no im against humans interferring with nature.

in that i dnt see how its justified killing innocent squrillels just so a few red ones can survive.
 
Yantorsen said:
that's irelevent, the greys are superior, they survive, besides im not against protection of Reds, its just stupid to trap greys, just *** of there colour.... seems a bit racist :p
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cool interesting thought process :thumbs:
its perfectly acceptable to release ( and encourage) a dominant life form into an area, when we know for a fact that it will displace and possibley force that life form into extinction without human intervention?

Its a little like opening all the zoo cages and removing weapons from humans
sound like a great idea for thining out the human race what ever colour or creed they maybe :thumbs:
I am sure you would love to trial this in your town and see how it goes?
 
fracster said:
I would not say that it is a fluffy way of saying it, more a factual way. The words mean the same however you read them.....:)
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Yeah I see the point, but we as Humans have an aversion to putting statements such as this in a direct manner...:gag:

Good topic this.

S
 
SteveJB said:
Yeah I see the point, but we as Humans have an aversion to putting statements such as this in a direct manner...:gag:

Good topic this.

S
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I like direct, gets me in poopoo land at times, but I prefer it..............:D
 
There's no getting away from the fact that greys were introduced into this country with no regard for the possible consequences for the environment and how it might affect native species, which was criminally irresponsible in the first place.
 
Cobra said:
cool interesting thought process :thumbs:
its perfectly acceptable to release ( and encourage) a dominant life form into an area, when we know for a fact that it will displace and possibley force that life form into extinction without human intervention?

Its a little like opening all the zoo cages and removing weapons from humans
sound like a great idea for thining out the human race what ever colour or creed they maybe :thumbs:
I am sure you would love to trial this in your town and see how it goes?
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we don't have a zoo so yh tht'd not change much.

but asside from that, i don't get what ** saying.


im not saying i agree with the introduction of grey squirrels hundreds of years ago, but there here now, lets not kill them.
 
CT said:
There's no getting away from the fact that greys were introduced into this country with no regard for the possible consequences for the environment and how it might affect native species, which was criminally irresponsible in the first place.
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I wasn`t around at the time CT, do you know if they were introduced on purpose or not..............:naughty:

Don`t think i`ll get away with that,somehow......:)
 
They were only introduced here in the late 19th century actually.
 
Yantorsen said:
we don't have a zoo so yh tht'd not change much.

but asside from that, i don't get what ** saying.


im not saying i agree with the introduction of grey squirrels hundreds of years ago, but there here now, lets not kill them.
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Even though they are the reason for the indigenous population of reds nearing extinction?
 
fracster said:
I wasn`t around at the time CT, do you know if they were introduced on purpose or not..............:naughty:
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Here you go mate....

CLICKY

Quite apart from the above I know a famous shooting toff, I think it was Lord Salisbury, introduced them in quite large numbers on his land as an additional cheap quarry species, so a few people bear the responsibility.
 
CT said:
There's no getting away from the fact that greys were introduced into this country with no regard for the possible consequences for the environment and how it might affect native species, which was criminally irresponsible in the first place.
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:agree:

It could be argued that at the time we knew no better. I just hope no one has the same bright idea as was used in Australia. Introducing one species to eliminate another but at then create an even bigger pest.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cane-toad/index.html
 
CT said:
Here you go mate....

CLICKY

Quite apart from the above I know a famous shooting toff, I think it was Lord Salisbury, introduced them in quite large numbers on his land as an additional cheap quarry species, so a few people bear the responsibility.
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Interesting read, thanks......:thumbs:
 
Yantorsen said:
we don't have a zoo so yh tht'd not change much.
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I think the first introduction of the greys were somewhere around chester
in 1820. didn't take them too long to get around did it. The larger preditors can move a lot faster the Greys ;)

Yantorsen said:
im not saying i agree with the introduction of grey squirrels hundreds of years ago, but there here now, lets not kill them.
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Are you based in the UK?
Are you a law abiding citizen?
its a little known fact that Grey squirrels have a "price on their heads "Landowners" now have a duty to control Greys just As they must control rabbits ( legal requirement)
 
Yantorsen said:
but why is the survival of one species worth the killing of innocent animals who were brought here by us?????
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That's precisely the Moral question...

It could be said that we have already killed the innocent animals by introducing the Greys.

Would you be happy to allow the Reds to become extinct?

S
 
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