viv1969
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I truly do not believe I have attacked you, nor insulted you.
and please use their services
WAMT....what annoyed me today!
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I truly do not believe I have attacked you, nor insulted you.
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When we were in Australia we had 7 cats and 4 dogs, none of which were spade but both my mother and father were responsible owners. I had 152 mice too and let them breed 
That was the late 50s and early 60s.
That was the late 50s and early 60s.
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When unwanted litter problems were solved with a bucket of water
I could and would NEVER do that.
viv1969
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Not questioning, stating.
You wouldn't have neutered your cat unless and until your wife did the right thing. You've started that.
I defend your right to hold the opinion, but not your inaction, which was your choice of route.
It is really rather simple...responsible cat owners who are not planning to use their cat to breed, male or female, neuter or Spey their pet.
I'm not baiting you. I'm not hurling insults at you, and not using foul and abusive language.
There are plenty of folk here who disagree with you, as I do, and we're as entitled as you to voice them.
Donnie
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Started what exactly? You assume that neutering is the right thing based on too many cats in shelters, I believe its the wrong thing for tom cats, based on I don't want to denature the animal and have his behaviour modified.
See above.
But that goes back to your assertion that I am irresponsible based on your assumptions, again see above.
You don't have to hurl them for them to be insults, as for the language, again you will see from a previous reply of mine where I point out you calling me a shyt pet owner, you are indeed (while circumventing the swear filter) being abusive.
And I have no problem with people disagreeing in a reasonable respectful manner, it's a shame you couldn't do that.
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Don't get a domesticated animal then. Keep a lion in your front room and call him Tiddles.
Donnie
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Oh? Is that your opinion then? All pets should be neutered?
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My comment wasn't about neutering. Humans have been altering the behaviour of cats and dogs via domestication for thousands of years. It's a bit late to start getting squeamish about it.
viv1969
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He's anthropomorphizing his cat.
My cat is neutered. He fights, he kills birds and rodents. He's a cat!
He just doesn't make kittens.
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Mine too.
At the end of the dy, if you don't want to denature a cat, don't have one as a pet.
LCPete
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Yes exactly
LCPete
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The cat rescue charities are struggling to find homes for so many unwanted cats and kittens because mainly people can't be bothered to get them neutered or like yourself believe that it's not right for thier cat
I do think you are irresponsible if you let your cat out to mate with female cats
Tom cats that are neutered are perfectly happy we have two
Donnie
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Who says I'm being squeamish?
Didn't know it was a condition of owning a cat that you had to have it neutered?
I let him do what he wants, he's a cat, it's that simple. Tom cats that aren't neutered are also perfectly happy.
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Didn't say it was, doesn't mean it's not the responsible thing to do so.
What about other peoples' cats to consider. An entire Tom doesn't discriminate between spayed and non-spayed females (basically, anything with a pulse), is it fair that they should be assaulted every time they leave there homes?
srichards
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So you let him pee all over the house whenever he wants and poo wherever he wants and scratch whatever he wants? I bet not.
You're actually putting the cat at risk of more disease and more injury by not neutering. https://caldervets.co.uk/pet-advice/neutering-cats/
Talk to the pet owners that have had their cats injured or even killed by a tom cat. My neighbour had to spend hundreds at the vet getting their cat treatment after the local tom cat beat up their older cat. They had to keep it in after that. The victim of your tom cat doesn't get to live out their life comfortably. You're being selfish and thoughtless by not getting him snipped.
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viv1969
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Teen pregnancy rates are at their lowest since records of such began in the 60s. Down by 50% in the last 20 years alone.
Still seem to be quite a few in Kent wandering around, minus a dad in tow.
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Teen pregnancy rates are at their lowest since records of such began in the 60s. Down by 50% in the last 20 years alone.
Still seem to be quite a few in Kent wandering around, minus a dad in tow.
Just goes to show the kids of today, I could Never walk out on my family.
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Bit confused here, Paul.
You are clear that you believe it is wrong to neuter male cats. Does that mean either you have no objection to the neutering of female cats, or believe that female cats should be neutered?
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What do you reckon the chances of him reading the link?
I also reckon I could have a pretty good guess as to whether he would opt for the low risk or high risk option with regards to human sterilisation ....
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Teen pregnancy rates are at their lowest since records of such began in the 60s. Down by 50% in the last 20 years alone.
Still seem to be quite a few in Kent wandering around, minus a dad in tow.
Not just the dad not in tow, have seen just dads but no mother so it does work both ways
Box Brownie
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@Donnie as has been pointed out owning a pet is a responsibility and in the case of either a cat or a dog such ownership means that one should be conscious of 'impact of ownership' on ones neighbours & their pets.
Two scenarios for you:-
If your pet was a male dog of a breed with a known history of aggressive rather than more passive behaviour would you make sure to train it well so that it was a socialised dog or let it be a "dog" because this is what "dogs" do? If the latter are you prepared for the consequences of it attacking another dog and possibly killing it or worse a child?
So, to your cat if he could be demonstrably shown to have fathered a litter and the mother cat needed an expensive veterinary procedure to save its life as a result of the pregnancy would you pay the bills? Not forgetting you finding homes for all of maybe 6 or more kittens that he fathered?
Two scenarios for you:-
If your pet was a male dog of a breed with a known history of aggressive rather than more passive behaviour would you make sure to train it well so that it was a socialised dog or let it be a "dog" because this is what "dogs" do? If the latter are you prepared for the consequences of it attacking another dog and possibly killing it or worse a child?
So, to your cat if he could be demonstrably shown to have fathered a litter and the mother cat needed an expensive veterinary procedure to save its life as a result of the pregnancy would you pay the bills? Not forgetting you finding homes for all of maybe 6 or more kittens that he fathered?
Donnie
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Ok, so now your saying that toms are assaulting females.
Again, to clarify, he has been snipped, I don't believe he should have been but I relented. As for the link, it's no different than the links on many vets pages and I can see the pros, however, he's fully vaccinated and using "he might get knocked down" is frankly a scare tactic in my eyes. Now Im not saying there are no risks to him or other cats, theres a few other toms locally that are also fighters, my cats come off worse in a few of them, but I still don't feel that behaviour modification of the animal is the way to go.
Edited to add this as I forgot: He never peed or pood or scratched in the house, he had a litter tray for the first 6 weeks we had him, this was moved outside of the catflap on week 7 and removed on week 8. Since then the backyard has been his territory which he happily treats as his territory.
Yet another dig :sleep::sleep:
I have no objection to the neutering of female cats, that is correct, it's up to the owner to do so if he or she wishes. Does that clarify?
What do you reckon the chances of him reading the link?
I also reckon I could have a pretty good guess as to whether he would opt for the low risk or high risk option with regards to human sterilisation ....
Oh, we're back to personal insults now? And I did read the link.
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Donnie
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The cat vs dog things a non starter and you know it, heck even insurance companies know it, dogs can be trained and the owners liable in the case of say a dog running out into the road and causing an accident, cats are not in the same category as they are defined as having a "right to roam".
But to your point about the litter etc I would indeed do the right thing and if the kittens needed to be found homes thats exactly what I would do.
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Ok, so now your saying that toms are assaulting females.
Er, yes. That's what entire Toms do when they come across females.
End of the day, it's the owner's choice whether to get their cat neutered or not. You believe yours should be able to do whatever it wants and have no consideration for other peoples' cats. That's your choice but in my, and others' opinion, it makes you a selfish and irresponsible cat owner.
Box Brownie
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At no point did I say my scenarios were a cat vs dog question. I was endeavouring to make a logical comparison at to how a responsible owner of each species can mitigate for their pets behaviour.......................thus as the cat is not trainable in the conventional sense the responsible action to mitigate for its action in roaming needs careful & responsible consideration.
I did postulate a demonstrable fatherhood by your cat but as they roam widely that surmise is unlikely, so though your positive acceptance of responsibility is welcome the chances of you ever being put in that position are very low. Therefore, how can you know of any burdens your cavalier attitude would have/has put on other cat owners in the neighbourhood who have had:-
1) their neutered tom cat injured and had a (big?) vets bill.
2) their unspayed (yes, equally questionable but we are talking about your tom cat) cat giving birth to an unwanted litter and the burden placed on that cats owner.
viv1969
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Frustrating, yes. I've been stuck in queues today myself. But are others not permitted to use the rosds too?
Donnie
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But you cannot make a logical comparison between cats and dogs for the very reason I have already stated.
Ah, I see so you went fishing with a hypothesis either hoping I'd deny any responsibility in the event, but due to my probably unexpected "positive acceptance" have left yourself with the ability to insult me anyway stating I have a cavalier attitude to pet ownership. Additionally your two addtional questions make the huge assumption that I don't know or get on with my neighbours, I'm not saying I know every cat owner in a half mile radius to be fair, but you're fishing and you should know that.
Donnie
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You hide behind opinion, I feel it's a personal attack, I'd rather you didn't do that. Ive stated my reasons time and again, you can disagree and put your point across without calling me names surely?
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I haven't called you names.
viv1969
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No. You hide behind opinion.
Anecdotal evidence has been presented time and again that neutering does not denature a male cat, but you choose to ignore that and keep on with the same empty rhetoric.
I suspect you're projecting your own virility upon your cat.