Matt Charlton
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and please use their services
siejones
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Did you know the first ever virus was written for an apple?
Lol that wouldn't sit well in one of there new advertising video's
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Marik
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did, you know.. CLI > GUI :O
Matt Charlton
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As long as you know what you are doing, CLI is more powerful than GUI yes.
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Marik
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yeah, anyway, I mut go walk the dog!
siejones
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Cli based OS's are useful for business servers that want to use every ounce of power they can muster from the system as resources are not wasted with pretty GUI's and uncessary background tasks. Other than that they primitive and pretty much useless for the home users. Do you really want to go back to the DOS days?
That's if I have read your operator right.
Matt Charlton
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I miss those days.
Optimising Autoexec.bat and config.sys to have as much conventional memory available as possible!
ahhh those were the days.
Optimising Autoexec.bat and config.sys to have as much conventional memory available as possible!
ahhh those were the days.
siejones
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Yeah I know
I remember the jolly day's of the ZX81 and it's rubber keys and wait for it......1 yes that's 1 whole Kilobyte of memory. How I used to love to play those ASCII graphics games
Matt Charlton
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I remember getting a book with the speccy and it would give you the code to type in to create your own programs.
I remember typing one in once and getting to the end and it not working, and it was a couple of A5 pages of code.
Stock Market and chuckie egg are still games I play on the ZX81 - albeit with the use of an emulator.
I remember typing one in once and getting to the end and it not working, and it was a couple of A5 pages of code.
Stock Market and chuckie egg are still games I play on the ZX81 - albeit with the use of an emulator.
siejones
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I used to type those in on my Vic20. If it was a machine code one you only needed one number to be wrong out of a the hundreds on the page and it wouldn't work and it wouldn't give you a single clue where the error was. So you ended up trawling back through the page matching numnbers.
God yeah...Chuckie egg!!.....happier days
Matt Charlton
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siejones
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All I can say is WOW!
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In one word... usability. It's what Apple do best and what a lot of other companies push aside as it's deemed difficult and obstructive to developers. You might wish to argue that Windows has fantastic usability, but in comparison to OS X it simply does not.
One quick example of this would be the message bubbles in XP (i don't know if they're in Vista?), you know, the one's that say: 'USB keyboard plugged in', 'USB keyboard unplugged', when in reality a user doesn't need to know that as if it's plugged in it'll work won't it?
One other example is GUI design consistency between all the various applications. It's strange really how most software packages for Mac's stick well to the standard look and feel of OS X, where as many Windows applications seem to vary hugely.
By the way, i'm not saying Apple are a huge innovator with ideas, like most companies they'll innovate only when they have to. What i'm trying to say is that they're a lot quicker in developing these features and making them work as a user would expect them to, and without having to put big signs over everything to tell someone about it.
Matt Charlton
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So what you're saying is that OS X is for people that aren't smart enough to use windows?
Only joking before you jump me
Only joking before you jump me
So what you're saying is that OS X is for people that aren't smart enough to use windows?
Only joking before you jump me
No. What i'm saying is an operating system should be logical and easy to use, and not create unnecessary complications for a user. It's there to provide a working environment for someone, so there's no need to make it more difficult than it has to be is there?
For example, when walking in to the office, do you need someone to shout out 'Matt entered the office', and when you leave 'Matt has left the office'? and then when the water cooler is out of water 'The water cooler is out of water', and 2minutes later 'The water cooler is out of water'. 'Matt entered the office', 'The water cooler is out of water', 'You have moved your chair', 'Would you like to remove unnecessary paper from your desk?', 'The water cooler is out of water', etc... Who needs that? Yep, no one, it's just annoying. It's like having a 4yr old child following you around and pointing everything out.
Matt Charlton
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I'm pretty sure you can turn off system notifications with a tick box or two. Its not the end of the world and certainly not something that I would think worthy of rating an operating system above another.
Hmmm OSX came of Linux and Linux was originally a CLI with no GUI so they started to create a GUI that looked like and was layed out like windows (only a lot buggier and generally messier). So OSX was born of the operating system that started the whole GUI Idea....Windows.
I think you will also find there is a lot more to an OS than it's apperance and navigation methods.
Vote Apple out along with that pathetic new advertising scheme they have started. :razz:
"Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong....wrong, wrong, wrong wrong....you're wrong...you're wrong...you're wrong"
Lets take a look at a few Vista fun things. The search feature has been in OSX for over 2 years and works very well. Apple + space, type in the word and it'll search IPTC tags on images, emails, mp3's, apps, emails, html pages, everything. The new alt-tab just isn't as nice as Expose (watch this or this one[/ur]).
[YOUTUBE]3QdGt3ix2CQ[/YOUTUBE]
Comedy video overlaying Vista's new features with those already in OSX (longer version)
[YOUTUBE]S-LGTtdJqZs[/YOUTUBE]
Great video about workflow on OSX.
[YOUTUBE]HjVZt-G2qC8[/YOUTUBE]
Parallels coherence mode (XP inside OSX)
[YOUTUBE]Dbt9upE6hpM[/YOUTUBE]
Fast OS switching between OSX, XP and Redhat. With a Mac you can run Vista, XP, your favourite Linux flavour and OSX all at the same time if you wish. There isn't a better Web design platform around.
mrgubby
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I'm with Pete on this
Ps. I would however like to slap Bill Gates on the face with a very large Hallibut
siejones
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lol...I knew I had opened a can of worms when I started this. Oh well here goes.
I admit it...I did didly squat research into the originating OS of OSX and took it via rumor rather than looking it up properly myself. So I will back down on this one.
As I said before comparisons are made on simple things like the search functionality and switching between windows. I simply can't get excited about something you could probably get with some cheapy shareware and install in minutes from the vast library of PC software. There has been some freeware out there for sometime now that makes windows visually work like Vista. Yawn! If this was all there was different in Vista to justify it being a new operating system nobody with A PC would bother upgrading.
There is a lot more in the core of Vista that is a whole lot more important.
This is called emulation and is really a rather old concept. Why do people get excited about this? The OS you emulate has to run on top of the OS you are running on the MAC and therefore has to translate each and every process before execution. So you just get a slower version of the OS your emulating.
Why do Mac's need to switch to third party OS's anyway? Is it because of how little software there is for the Mac? I have used and supported most operating systems at some point or another and I have never needed to use another OS other than windows. There is absolutly nothing the Mac has that A PC user needs that have they havn't already got in some for or another. What does that tell you?
A PC could easily emulate any OS just as a Mac can but PC users don't want or need to.
When I was a web deleloper I managed to get along without touching a Mac (thank god) just fine. PC happily provided everything I needed. Never found myself wanting.
There are many argument's I could make against Mac's that I won't bore you with here. I always hated supporting the things.
siejones
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Yep.Like you said you cannot compare an OS via tiny little things that could be easily changed by software if the OS it's self does not allow you to do so as a preference.
There is a lot lot more to OS's than these little frontend features.
sjejones. I work as an ASP.NET developer, and can't do this on OS X as Visual Studio is needed. Therefore i have to run Windows on my Mac. Personally i'd far rather have a Mac Pro at work and run Parallels for Windows rather than use the Dell i have.
You're also really not getting this tbh. An operating system should not have to be changed to work how it should do already, you should be able to turn a new machine on and not have to set it up with 'shareware'. It's all about usability, and Apple is VERY good at this.
Unless you've properly used OS X, and i mean properly, not just a few days here and there. You also need to use it with the right attitude, not the 'wtf, i don't want to use this' one
I use Windows every day, and have done for over 10yrs. Since i moved to OS X my life has been a lot less stressful. The workflow is vastly superior, and it works how i want it to. This is not to say it's for everyone, but you can't critise a system you know nothing about. People 'holding' discussions when they only know one side of the story are a total waste of time.
You're also really not getting this tbh. An operating system should not have to be changed to work how it should do already, you should be able to turn a new machine on and not have to set it up with 'shareware'. It's all about usability, and Apple is VERY good at this.
Unless you've properly used OS X, and i mean properly, not just a few days here and there. You also need to use it with the right attitude, not the 'wtf, i don't want to use this' one
I use Windows every day, and have done for over 10yrs. Since i moved to OS X my life has been a lot less stressful. The workflow is vastly superior, and it works how i want it to. This is not to say it's for everyone, but you can't critise a system you know nothing about. People 'holding' discussions when they only know one side of the story are a total waste of time.
siejones
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Yeah I have done ASP and worked in the .Net envoirement with VB and ASP. I have also coded with PHP probably to a greater extent. Also I have worked on Internet servers from IIS to Apache on servers from NT to 2000 to Linux. This including the building and installation of the servers and the OS and software installation and configuration of all the machines from server to client. That was my Web developer days. I won't mention my nightmare with the old Mac servers back in my operations days
One of the people I worked with at the time used Mac OSX basically because he used to be a features editor (newspaper industry) and his computer life so to speak had always been mac based. I won't mention the amount of times he called me over to help him with it for too many things to mention. Most of the time he would ask me to do stuff for him he couldn't manage on his Mac on my PC. He ended up with a windows XP machine as well on his other side.
I refer you back to what I said about comparing the little features to judge an OS but you think this is more important than having to use another operating system to compensate for the thing's OSX can't do? I think that is quite simply ridiculas. My PC will do everyting I want and a lot more besides and that goes as far back as Windows 95.
There is quite simply nothing the Mac can do that the PC doesn't do be it in hardware or software. The concept that you have to emulate other OS's to get the job done is quite frankly a joke.
Unless you've properly used OS X, and i mean properly, not just a few days here and there. You also need to use it with the right attitude, not the 'wtf, i don't want to use this' one
When in a support/operations role I supported (fixed software/hardware) Mac's for most of the evolution of it's OS's for as long back as I care to remember. During this time I ran operations on them and was reapeatedly fustrated by there consistant instabilty in all but the simplist of tasks.
I have used windows from it's window version 1.0...basically it's inception along side most operating systems for client and server to include Windows, Mac OS, Linux, Unix and other older OS's that most won't have heard of. Before that I used some of the most primitive machines that you would believe. Some that had remote console's that worked like nothing more than a type writer. The text came out on a real of printed paper not to a screen. With servers that filled rooms and hard disk drives that took a trolly to carry. Servers that took on OS loaded to run programs and you had to load up another OS for disk and tape operations. Back in these day you really had to know how a computer worked. Today's OS's are shear bliss in comparison.
I could go on but I do not want to expand on my experiance more than is relevant to this topic but I will say in general there is little an OS or software package can do that will hold much suprise for me these days. Basically because I know whats progmatically possible.
I should imagine this kind of background would give me good enough grounding to make a professional opinion in this area.
Hehe no its not
Its called Virtualization and the OS runs at near native speed. Want to test your website on every major web browser going, you can without ever feeling like your slow arsed emulated OS is going to collapse. With the new coherence modes I can run a Windows app on the OSX desktop so if there's something I specifically need from Windows, I can run it seamlessly without feeling like I'm switching OS's. From a web design standpoint it is just brilliant. I could visit a clients office with my Macbook Pro and show the their new site running on IE3,4,5,5.5,6,7, Firefox PC/Lin/OSX, Safari, Konquerer, Camino, Opera, all at near native speed. [YOUTUBE]AC_DuAUTHWI[/YOUTUBE]
I have never ran Parallels and thought it was sluggish. Hell, one time I even forgot I was running XP in the background while I worked. Whoops, left a whole other OS running there
For the record, you don't have to emulate or run a virtual OS to get your job done. It just allows you to get your job done better as you can have every major tool you'll ever need on 1 machine.
siejones
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Hehe no its not
Ahhhh ok so it has a fair crack at hardware Emulation and is only available to Mac's that have yet since evolved into long existing PC processor (intel CPU) and intel chipset (also of PC origin). Well of coarse that would make sence. The Mac is closer to being a PC than it ever was so other than the CPU (which is now of PC origin) it only has to Emulate the rest of the hardware. I still see the word emulation here
hmmmm. Hey I wonder how long it will be before the rest of the hardware is PC based. That way you don't have to emulate that either. While your at it you may as well dump Mac OS X and run the OS that already does everything. Maybe if you miss you navigation and fancy windows you can download some £20 shareware that will emulate if for you. Hehe I also see the parrallels software was born of the original PC product "Parallels Workstation" which was out for the PC first. Of coarse back then the Mac hardware was too different for this to be possible so it only "Virtualized" every other operating system. My guess it was never missed and deemed pointless to "vistualise" even when the Mac hardware compatible. Why? well because the PC already does everything.
I have never ran Parallels and thought it was sluggish. Hell, one time I even forgot I was running XP in the background while I worked. Whoops, left a whole other OS running there
So you mean you have only ever used it to run browsers? Not exactly the most processor intensive work. I am not suprised you don't see a slow down.
You don't have to emulate diddly squat on a PC. You already have everything you need and more.
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The_old_man
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It boils down to what you want out of an OS or (in my case) your knowledge of that OS.
For me its Vista because I have a very good knowledge of it, I have no knowledge of Mac, but would like to give it a try sometime.
Vista is a long way from XP. Far more than the interface (which is nice). Things like shadow copy are now in the OS.
people talk about viruses etc. How windows is always open to them! well this is down to its success over the years. If there was not so many copies out there then i doubt it would be such a target for them.
The comparisons in the above videos are a bit noddy. One menstions windows sideshow but does not show the mac version of this. Is there one?
I could do the same comparisons between a mini and a lotus, doors, windows that open with a push of a button, gearbox etc. but they are no where near the same beast. Both have their place and their uses. Both are favoured by different types of people. thats life, go with wht you like and don't spend your time telling others they are wrong for liking somthing else.
Steve
PS, I asked the original question, so I will answer it.
I have been running vista for some time and will be changing my network over in the next few months. to me its a great upgrade. To others its not
For me its Vista because I have a very good knowledge of it, I have no knowledge of Mac, but would like to give it a try sometime.
Vista is a long way from XP. Far more than the interface (which is nice). Things like shadow copy are now in the OS.
people talk about viruses etc. How windows is always open to them! well this is down to its success over the years. If there was not so many copies out there then i doubt it would be such a target for them.
The comparisons in the above videos are a bit noddy. One menstions windows sideshow but does not show the mac version of this. Is there one?
I could do the same comparisons between a mini and a lotus, doors, windows that open with a push of a button, gearbox etc. but they are no where near the same beast. Both have their place and their uses. Both are favoured by different types of people. thats life, go with wht you like and don't spend your time telling others they are wrong for liking somthing else.
Steve
PS, I asked the original question, so I will answer it.
I have been running vista for some time and will be changing my network over in the next few months. to me its a great upgrade. To others its not
Matt Charlton
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I posted earlier but something got screwed over.
it hadn't been for the ipod apple would have died years ago.
Seriously, this is getting far too personal, who cares what each of us use - we obviously have our reasons and Matt. saying
that I have some kind of strange clear windows love isn't on.
I don't have brand loyalty to anything, I'll use whatever is best to suit my needs, I've been using Windows since 3.1 when I
used to dabble with it and my exposure to Mac's has been limited. I had a quick play with the OSX in the apple shop at
meadowhall in November, saw some pretty buttons, moved the mouse over them, they got bigger when the arrow went over them,
yay, it was great.
This thread started out asking who was getting vista, its turned from that to a "you don't want to get vista" and then from
that to a "Macs are better than PCs", whatever.
All this my dad is bigger than your dad stuff stops now.
it hadn't been for the ipod apple would have died years ago.
Seriously, this is getting far too personal, who cares what each of us use - we obviously have our reasons and Matt. saying
that I have some kind of strange clear windows love isn't on.
I don't have brand loyalty to anything, I'll use whatever is best to suit my needs, I've been using Windows since 3.1 when I
used to dabble with it and my exposure to Mac's has been limited. I had a quick play with the OSX in the apple shop at
meadowhall in November, saw some pretty buttons, moved the mouse over them, they got bigger when the arrow went over them,
yay, it was great.
This thread started out asking who was getting vista, its turned from that to a "you don't want to get vista" and then from
that to a "Macs are better than PCs", whatever.
All this my dad is bigger than your dad stuff stops now.
Or when running Photoshop, Raw shooter, or any other cpu intensive application. Geez. You show someone thing actually quite impressive but all they can do is go "Ew its a Mac" and they have to find some nasty way of slating it.
Yes yes, no iPod no Apple. No Apple, no Windows. No this, no that. The simple fact is that Vista doesn't impress some people because they've had some of its main features for years. Maybe in a year when it has a more impressive DX10 game line up it'll look better. But then of course, some of us have had Halo 2 for years
siejones
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Fair enough...I should have known better than to bite when I saw the usual "Mac's are better than PC's" thread :shake:
I have had this argument too many times.
Clearly this is not the subject of the thread and I will shut up if the carrot ain't dangled to close again
siejones
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Or when running Photoshop, Raw shooter, or any other cpu intensive application. Geez. You show someone thing actually quite impressive but all they can do is go "Ew its a Mac" and they have to find some nasty way of slating it.
Yes yes, no iPod no Apple. No Apple, no Windows. No this, no that. The simple fact is that Vista doesn't impress some people because they've had some of its main features for years. Maybe in a year when it has a more impressive DX10 game line up it'll look better. But then of course, some of us have had Halo 2 for years
Carrot dangling.....must resist....must resist :bang:
I am resisting Dark Saber honest
Matt Charlton
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All the cool kids are preordering crackdown for the 360 to get the Halo 3 beta Pete
Don't worry about it siejones, theres just too much bitterness between the two usergroups to have a sensible conversation or debate without it heading straight towards a head on collision.
Don't worry about it siejones, theres just too much bitterness between the two usergroups to have a sensible conversation or debate without it heading straight towards a head on collision.
siejones
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siejones
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All the cool kids are preordering crackdown for the 360 to get the Halo 3 beta Pete
Don't worry about it siejones, theres just too much bitterness between the two usergroups to have a sensible conversation or debate without it heading straight towards a head on collision.
Way ahead of you there
I can easily have a sensible conversation about OS's. I've got XPMCE to the left of me and OSX in front of me. They both have their uses on a daily basis. I prefer OSX as a daily work machine however. The problem is when some people have to have a go at Mac users because its the "cool" thing to do. They get their facts completely wrong and they hate OSX with as much passion as people love it. When you have blind hate you just can't reason with it, I've tried.
Matt Charlton
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I don't have blind hate for anything and if I needed to use OSX then I would, but a PC with windows does everything that I need it to do.
This whole thing started as an attack on windows from the linux/mac contingency - its natural to retaliate to that.
This whole thing started as an attack on windows from the linux/mac contingency - its natural to retaliate to that.
siejones
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Way ahead of you there
Oh no...your soooooo wrong again!
Please somebody stop him!
This is tooooo hard for me not to argue :bang:
I didn't mean you
I'm both a PC and Mac user though, so I'm not a total one sided fanboy. The MCE features in Vista look better presented than in XP and maybe after SP1 I might look into upgrading. For now, since my MCE box is only a month old and runs perfectly, I don't plan on jinxing it As a Windows user, and other Windows users do agree here, Vista isn't yet worth upgrading to. There's a good article on Eurogamer about it. They said that Doom 3 lost 50fps on Vista.
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Hoodi
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tbh Darksaber I think it's you that seems to be taking things too personally.
WRT to the PM you sent me and the other discussion we had briefly earlier in the thread, I know you can get SS running in XP - but to do so properly requires hours & hours of naffing about and fiddling.
WRT to the PM you sent me and the other discussion we had briefly earlier in the thread, I know you can get SS running in XP - but to do so properly requires hours & hours of naffing about and fiddling.