Tour de France

good stage today can't wait to watch it later :-)
 
Mr Bump said:
he wants a gold medal.
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considering he was the only man on the TeamGB track rosta at 2008 that didn't get a medal, and after the tactical mis-judgement farce that was the 2012 road race, I can see why he sees it as something of a gap in his palmarès...
 
TheBigYin said:
considering he was the only man on the TeamGB track rosta at 2008 that didn't get a medal, and after the tactical mis-judgement farce that was the 2012 road race, I can see why he sees it as something of a gap in his palmarès...
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And to be fair I can not see the sense in hoping to be about for the 2020 games as he is in great form at the moment.
 
I think that dropping out to pursue another goal is a little disrespectful. Given that it's a "tour" then you should be obligated to complete the thing before you can have your participation acknowledged.
It's feasible that you could have 500 riders going hell for leather on stage one and seeking fame knowing that they don't need to keep any reserves as they're not going to particpate in any further stages.

Can you imagine how a Grand Prix would look if four of the lower order teams withdrew from the next 4 races so that they can save their engines for later in the season when their potential chassis improvements were available?

Just my thoughts.

Bob
 
Sprinters have always had "issues" finishing the tour - Super Mario used to book his holidays for the second week of the tour... Some teams simply don't'cant afford to have a GC contender on their rosta, but MAY be able to afford an "up and coming" sprinter (say FORTUNEO - VITAL CONCEPT , with their UK sprinter, Dan McLay...) - other teams choose to split their resources between supporting a spinter - loading the team with a "sprint train" of big fast rouleurs that can get the sprinter up there, but still have someone that might just feature on the GC battles.

As to the "acknowledgement of participation" - well - that IS the case with the Green Jersey competition - you HAVE to finish to get the jersey. Sagan could crash on the final stage, fail to finish and not get the award....

But, basically, the "sprint stages" aren't anything more than a sideshow, and a bit of entertainment for the crowds who have generally sat through a dreadfully dreary flat stage with a break of 5 people who know from the outset that they're going to be caught with 3km to the line. And those dreary stages exist for the sole purpose of accumulating fatigue into all the domestiques of the teams with GC aspirations.

It's not feasible to have 500 riders doing anything... teams are limited to 9 riders, and the field is limited to a maximum of 22 - 18 of the UCI WorldTeams, and 4 "wildcards" appointed by the ASO.

your GP analogy is more akin to a team not bothering sending any riders out in the pyrenees to save their legs for stages in the alps... Ultimately, what happens in races after the TdF is pretty irrelavant to the ASO...

There's a long history of riders "doing the Giro as training for the TdF" and stepping off in the 3rd week

There's a pretty long history (at least since LaVuelta moved to it's late summer slot) of The Vuelta being abandoned at the end of the 2nd week "to prepare for the World Championships".

And the TdF suffers every 4th year when it's followed by the Olympics. Lots of riders have climbed off citing Olympic Preparation, not just Cavendish...
 
I do wonder whether he would have pulled out if Sagan didn't have an all-but unassailable lead in the green jersey competition? Perhaps Cav's points should be redistributed to those still in the chase?

I like Cavendish and understand that he feels the need to try for an Olympic medal in Rio because by 2020 he will surely be too slow to be a sprinter.
 
TheBigYin said:
As to the "acknowledgement of participation" - well - that IS the case with the Green Jersey competition - you HAVE to finish to get the jersey. Sagan could crash on the final stage, fail to finish and not get the award....
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That's precisely the point. Failure to complete stage 8 means that you can't compete in stage 9 but your record in stages 1-7 will still exist. If it was designated a 21 race Championship over three weeks then that's fine but it's not, it's a tour.....one race....and so non-finshers should have their records expunged.

Bob
 
Canon Bob said:
That's precisely the point. Failure to complete stage 8 means that you can't compete in stage 9 but your record in stages 1-7 will still exist. If it was designated a 21 race Championship over three weeks then that's fine but it's not, it's a tour.....one race....and so non-finshers should have their records expunged.

Bob
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I disagree the tour is bigger than that and caters for all, the GC is the best man out of essentially all the races put together, but the stages themselves are individual road races each with a winner.

Winning a stage in the tour is epic and can catapult a rider to serious success and will keep them in beers at the bar forever.

The sprinters have there day, the climbers have there day as well but they as said before do have to make it to the line.

I absolutlely love the tour it is the best sporting even itn the world bar none for me.
 
Mr Bump said:
I disagree the tour is bigger than that and caters for all, the GC is the best man out of essentially all the races put together, but the stages themselves are individual road races each with a winner.
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If you fail to complete a stage through illness, accident or speed....you're eliminated, you can't start the next "race"

The rules....
Tout coureur qui abandonne doit remettre ses dossards au commissaire du véhicule balai. Les dossards des coureurs ayant abandonné sont ensuite remis à l’arrivée au commissaire
qui assiste le chronométreur. Tout abandon notoirement injustifié peut entraîner la suppression de l’ensemble des prix gagnés depuis le départ de l’épreuve.

Any rider who retires must return his number to the Commissioner the referee's vehicle. The numbers of the riders who abandoned are then presented to the Commissioner upon arrival which assists the timekeeper. Any unjustified abandonment may forfait all of the prizes won from the start of the trial.

I don't consider that having something better to do is justification to quit.

Bob
 
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I don't think you are getting it Bob like I sais the tour is bigger than that, bigger than rules, its about the sport and the people even the rules are flexible as per the crash on the mountain stage with the motorbike.
Cav didn't even have to come at all, he didn't expect to take many stage wins.

But he did and he came and he just blew us all away and we salute him, now he goes home and trains for gold and the tour respects that.

maybe just you that doesnt?
 
"Bigger than the rules".....If that's what the sport has become then go luck to it. Lets all hope that most of the other riders don't "do a Cav" and clear off on Saturday evening, leaving Froome, Yates and a few sprinters to ride into Paris on Sunday.

The Tour might respect his departure for better things but, you're right, I don't. I believe that if you enter a competition then you should give it your best shot out of self respect and respect for your opponents.

Bob
 
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Cav is looking after Cav. He is focused on stage wins and ultimately wants to beat the 34 stage wins of Eddy Merckx and rewrite the T de F record books. With only one more potential stage he could win (Paris / sunday) but to have a shot at that he would have to drag himself over the alpine climbs to get there. Hence he is now focused on Cav winning an Olympic medal. I agree it is disrespecting the 'Tour' but elite sportsmen/women tend to put themselves first, this is a big factor in them becoming 'the best' at what they do.
 
Canon Bob said:
"Bigger than the rules".....If that's what the sport has become then go luck to it. Lets all hope that most of the other riders don't "do a Cav" and clear off on Saturday evening, leaving Froome, Yates and a few sprinters to ride into Paris on Sunday.

The Tour might respect his departure for better things but, you're right, I don't. I believe that if you enter a competition then you should give it your best shot out of self respect and respect for your opponents.

Bob
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what a load of donkey guff, contador got off and got in the van becuase the victory was lost and he is a sore loser but you aren't moaning about him are you?
 
Mr Bump said:
what a load of donkey guff, contador got off and got in the van becuase the victory was lost and he is a sore loser but you aren't moaning about him are you?
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I didn't specify anybody by name, I stated that I thought it was disrespectful to abandon the race to pursue another activity. If that applies to Contador (or any other rider) then, yes, I think that he/they have been disrespectful to their fellow competitors and the organisers. It's you who seem to have decided that Cavendish was the sole target of my criticism.

Bob
 
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Reminds me a bit of the situation back in the early part of the last century when the 4 1/2 litre "Blower" Bentleys were used as hares for the fast Mercedes cars to chase. The Blowers weren't all that reliable so would break down and retire from the race (specifically Le Mans) as would the Mercs who were chasing them, leaving the slightly slower but more reliable Speed 6 cars to take the win.
 
No, just pointing out that the teams could be using exhausters as a tactical measure. Put faster runners with little real stamina out for the other teams to chase then reel them in once they're knackered.
 
Canon Bob said:
I didn't specify anybody by name, I stated that I thought it was disrespectful to abandon the race to pursue another activity. If that applies to Contador (or any other rider) then, yes, I think that he/they have been disrespectful to their fellow competitors and the organisers. It's you who seem to have decided that Cavendish was the sole target of my criticism.

Bob
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To be fair, old time sprinters like Mario Cipollini used to just ride the Tour for the first week's worth of sprints and then promptly headed off to the beach so Cav and the others have given the race a lot of respect.

Terrifying descent in the rain again today but I think everyone made it ok.
 
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Jason Crest said:
To be fair, old time sprinters like Mario Cipollini used to just ride the Tour for the first week's worth of sprints and then promptly headed off to the beach so Cav and the others have given the race a lot of respect.
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I'm not sure why having a precedent makes something acceptable and even less sure why quitting to pursue a personal goal is seen as "giving a lot of respect". Sagan could have had an easy day of it today and coasted along at the back of the peleton but (and kudos to him) he's bigger than that and was prepared to expend a lot of energy helping his teammates.

As Pierre de Coubertin famously said,,,,"The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part". His speech continued with, but not often quoted, "The essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well".
Go back 24 years and watch Derek Redmond hopping and limping the last 200 metres of a race with a torn hamstring so that he could get to the finishing line......that's a sportsman.

Bob
 
Seem to remember Chris Boardman rarely finished the tour, maybe two or three times, but he rode it a fair few years.
 
your on your own bob
 
Canon Bob said:
"Bigger than the rules".....If that's what the sport has become then go luck to it. Lets all hope that most of the other riders don't "do a Cav" and clear off on Saturday evening, leaving Froome, Yates and a few sprinters to ride into Paris on Sunday.

The Tour might respect his departure for better things but, you're right, I don't. I believe that if you enter a competition then you should give it your best shot out of self respect and respect for your opponents.

Bob
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He has given it his best shot. He has won 4 stages, worn the yellow jersey, brought the sort of publicity for Qubeka that they couldn't have dreamed of before the Tour.

If he wins a medal in Rio that will be invaluable for Dimension Data and Qubeka.
 
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Mr Bump said:
your on your own bob
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It seems so but I'm not going to sacrifice my morals to join the majority.

On a sad note....
Gérard Holtz, the TdF commentator on French TV has announced that he's standing down. He's commentated/presented the race for the past 31 years and is a true gentleman being both enthusastic and, more importantly, impartial. He was to cycling what Murray Walker was to Formula One and it won't be the same without him.
Thank you Gérard.

Bob
 
Canon Bob said:
It seems so but I'm not going to sacrifice my morals to join the majority.

On a sad note....
Gérard Holtz, the TdF commentator on French TV has announced that he's standing down. He's commentated/presented the race for the past 31 years and is a true gentleman being both enthusastic and, more importantly, impartial. He was to cycling what Murray Walker was to Formula One and it won't be the same without him.
Thank you Gérard.

Bob
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Agree about Gérard. The voice of le Tour on France2.

I'm sure the kids who benefit from the money that Cav's publicity has generated for Qubeka will allow you your place on the moral fence post.
 
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