Tia Sharp: police find body at home of grandmother

Just Dave said:
That was my intention
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My first post tried to keep it on track, Dave...sorry if it had the opposite effect.
 
I have to say, when I saw the news that a body had been discovered in her grandmothers house I was genuinely shocked. Not only because given the media coverage it seems likely that the body would have been there all along, but also because it seems likely that this dreadful crime had been carried out by someone who she trusted. More than anything else, that's what makes me feel sick.
 
cuthbert said:
I have to say, when I saw the news that a body had been discovered in her grandmothers house I was genuinely shocked. Not only because given the media coverage it seems likely that the body would have been there all along, but also because it seems likely that this dreadful crime had been carried out by someone who she trusted. More than anything else, that's what makes me feel sick.
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Sickening it certainly is, and nonetheless shocking even when statistics reveal that the perpetrators fo such crimes are most often close family or friends.
 
arclight said:
Sickening it certainly is, and nonetheless shocking even when statistics reveal that the perpetrators fo such crimes are most often close family or friends.
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...and have often appeared on television in an appeal to help find their lost little darling!
 
DemiLion said:
...and have often appeared on television in an appeal to help find their lost little darling!
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yeah - remember that girl a few years back who stabbed her boyfreind to death with a swiss army knife, and then claimed it was a mystery road rage killer - and even appeared on breakfast tv tearfully appealing for help in catching the 'monster' who done it :cuckoo:

some people are so cold it defies description.
 
it doesnt necessarily mean the others were involved with her murder - the police could be looking at them as accessories - e.g in helping cover up what happened etc
 
big soft moose said:
it doesnt necessarily mean the others were involved with her murder - the police could be looking at them as accessories - e.g in helping cover up what happened etc
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I didn't say she was involved, just repeating the message on sky news.

the exact words though on the bottom scroll bar is "SKY SOURCES: 46 year woman arrested on suspicion of murder is Tia's Sharps Grandmother


EDIT: Just come in on Sky news that the 3rd person has been arrested for assisting an offender which is the next door neighbour Paul Meeham
 
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The standout thing for me from the interview with Hazel was his appeal to the camera "Come home babe."

"Babe" FFS - this was a 12 year old girl! Put that together with the photos of this little girl wearing full makeup and it paints a fairly obvious picture of what's gone wrong here.
 
CT said:
The standout thing for me from the interview with Hazel was his appeal to the camera "Come home babe."

"Babe" FFS - this was a 12 year old girl! Put that together with the photos of this little girl wearing full makeup and it paints a fairly obvious picture of what's gone wrong here.
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:thinking:

Babe can often be used as an affectionate term for young person, not always in a sexual manor if that's what you mean.
 
neil_g said:
:thinking:

Babe can often be used as an affectionate term for young person, not always in a sexual manor if that's what you mean.
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The Mercury/Gemini/Apollo astronauts used to use the term to eachother too.
 
I don't care what terms of endearment were / are used. There are some sick b'tards that just need putting down.
 
It's a huge oversight that the house wasn't searched from top to bottom in the first instance. That would be pretty standard procedure with a missing child. A family reporting a child missing are hardly likely to refuse consent to a house search and the moment that search was commenced Hazell would have been saying "Carry on, I need to nip out and get some fags." ;)
 
CT said:
It's a huge oversight that the house wasn't searched from top to bottom in the first instance. That would be pretty standard procedure with a missing child. A family reporting a child missing are hardly likely to refuse consent to a house search and the moment that search was commenced Hazell would have been saying "Carry on, I need to nip out and get some fags." ;)
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Hello police, id like to report a missing child.

Certainly madam, first we need to rip up all of your floorboards and dig up the garden before we can think you're innocent..

:shrug:
 
neil_g said:
Hello police, id like to report a missing child.

Certainly madam, first we need to rip up all of your floorboards and dig up the garden before we can think you're innocent..

:shrug:
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YES! and if you are are innocent you would have nothing to fear.
 
CT said:
It's a huge oversight that the house wasn't searched from top to bottom in the first instance. That would be pretty standard procedure with a missing child. A family reporting a child missing are hardly likely to refuse consent to a house search and the moment that search was commenced Hazell would have been saying "Carry on, I need to nip out and get some fags." ;)
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Does anyone know for sure that they didn't do a full search and the body was not there at the time of the 1st/2nd search?
 
CT said:
It's a huge oversight that the house wasn't searched from top to bottom in the first instance. That would be pretty standard procedure with a missing child. A family reporting a child missing are hardly likely to refuse consent to a house search and the moment that search was commenced Hazell would have been saying "Carry on, I need to nip out and get some fags." ;)
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That's the puzzle at the moment Cedric. The house was search three times, twice with dogs (including cadaver/corpse trained ones I believe) and they still didn't find anything. Obviously there's the possibility that the body was too fresh, but there must have been a fair level of concealment for it to be missed three times.
 
neil_g said:
Hello police, id like to report a missing child.

Certainly madam, first we need to rip up all of your floorboards and dig up the garden before we can think you're innocent..

:shrug:
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Neil - get a grip mate. This case stunk from the off. It appears the body had been stuffed in the roof space which hardly means the house being pulled apart.

This guy has convictions for drugs and weapons offences and before he shacked up with grandma he was shacked up with the kid's mom. He spent the last night in the house completely alone with this kid while Granda was supposedly working. He was an obvious and legitimate suspect from the outset and that alone was sufficient grounds for the house being thoroughly searched.
 
DemiLion said:
That's the puzzle at the moment Cedric. The house was search three times, twice with dogs (including cadaver/corpse trained ones I believe) and they still didn't find anything. Obviously there's the possibility that the body was too fresh, but there must have been a fair level of concealment for it to be missed three times.
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Neighbour has been arrested for assisting an offender. They hid the body round there? If it is one of those houses with the not properly walled up adjoining loft spaces then it is so easy to do.
 
DemiLion said:
That's the puzzle at the moment Cedric. The house was search three times, twice with dogs (including cadaver/corpse trained ones I believe) and they still didn't find anything. Obviously there's the possibility that the body was too fresh, but there must have been a fair level of concealment for it to be missed three times.
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I dunno - my guess is the loft wasn't searched in the earlier searches and in the roof space I doubt the dogs would pick up the smell. However, as the days went by the smell would quickly become more obvious especially in this warm weather.

You can imagine the frustration of whoever stuck the body in the loft wanting to take it and dump it somewhere but thwarted by all the police activity around the house. Had they managed to dump the body then this case could have dragged on for months.
 
srichards said:
Neighbour has been arrested for assisting an offender. They hid the body round there? If it is one of those houses with the not properly walled up adjoining loft spaces then it is so easy to do.
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He may well have been arrested on that charge simply for providing the statement that he had seen the girl leave the house...
 
CT said:
Neil - get a grip mate. This case stunk from the off. It appears the body had been stuffed in the roof space which hardly means the house being pulled apart.

This guy has convictions for drugs and weapons offences and before he shacked up with grandma he was shacked up with the kid's mom. He spent the last night in the house completely alone with this kid while Granda was supposedly working. He was an obvious and legitimate suspect from the outset and that alone was sufficient grounds for the house being thoroughly searched.
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i have a grip ta, was pointing out how rediculous it would be to insist on a full search of every parents property that reported a missing child irrespective on how much the situation "stank". as said a few times now, the police cannot react on a whim or someones past convictions that have been served.
 
srichards said:
Neighbour has been arrested for assisting an offender. They hid the body round there? If it is one of those houses with the not properly walled up adjoining loft spaces then it is so easy to do.
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Its impossible to say - it could just as easily be neighbour lied to the police about the last time they saw Tia to back up Hazels story. Who knows (certainly none of us).
 
neil_g said:
i have a grip ta, was pointing out how rediculous it would be to insist on a full search of every parents property that reported a missing child irrespective on how much the situation "stank". as said a few times now, the police cannot react on a whim or someones past convictions that have been served.
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It's not ridiculous at all, kids have a habit of hiding, would you not think it prudent of the Police to ensure a missing child wasn't just hiding in the loft before mounting a full-scale search of the neighbourhood?
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It's not ridiculous at all, kids have a habit of hiding, would you not think it prudent of the Police to ensure a missing child wasn't just hiding in the loft before mounting a full-scale search of the neighbourhood?
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if the loft space was accessible (drop down ladder) then thats something the parents should have already checked before the report.
 
neil_g said:
i have a grip ta, was pointing out how rediculous it would be to insist on a full search of every parents property that reported a missing child irrespective on how much the situation "stank". as said a few times now, the police cannot react on a whim or someones past convictions that have been served.
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My understanding i that it is usual practice for officers to do a plain view search - ie looking arround the house for signs of disturbance, blood on the carpets etc - and also to check that the child isnt just hiding from parents

However that wouldnt involve ripping up floor boards or digging up the garden , and would only involve looking in the roofspace if it was easily accessible - or if there were signs that it had been recently accessed.

We don't know whether that was done in this case or not - but as I said earlier its academic anyway because even if the polie had tord the house to pieces on the first day and subsequently found her - she'd still be dead , and the same people would still be in custody , so nothing was really lost through the delay
 
big soft moose said:
Its impossible to say - it could just as easily be neighbour lied to the police about the last time they saw Tia to back up Hazels story. Who knows (certainly none of us).
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True. Didn't realise he was the same neighbour that said she left the house.
 
big soft moose said:
We don't know whether that was done in this case or not - but as I said earlier its academic anyway because even if the polie had tord the house to pieces on the first day and subsequently found her - she'd still be dead , and the same people would still be in custody , so nothing was really lost through the delay
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yes that is a good point.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It's not ridiculous at all, kids have a habit of hiding, would you not think it prudent of the Police to ensure a missing child wasn't just hiding in the loft before mounting a full-scale search of the neighbourhood?
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This - absolutely! I remember a couple of missing child cases I was personally involved in. One where the kid had climbed into a fridge and suffocated and another where the child had squeezed his way along a nine inch gap between two walls - got jammed suffoctated.
 
neil_g said:
if the loft space was accessible (drop down ladder) then thats something the parents should have already checked before the report.
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Riiiight! "Did you check the loft space Mr Hazell?"
 
big soft moose said:
We don't know whether that was done in this case or not - but as I said earlier its academic anyway because even if the polie had tord the house to pieces on the first day and subsequently found her - she'd still be dead , and the same people would still be in custody , so nothing was really lost through the delay
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I'm not sure I agree with that Pete. Hundreds of officers engaged for days on enquiries and local residents willingly turning out to spend hours searching the area. There's sure to be a backlash over this. I'm the first to defend the cops as you've no doubt noticed, but I think they dropped the ball badly on this one.
 
srichards said:
Neighbour has been arrested for assisting an offender. They hid the body round there? If it is one of those houses with the not properly walled up adjoining loft spaces then it is so easy to do.
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Daily Mail (sorry:lol: )

detectives are investigating whether the 12-year-old’s body was moved between the roof spaces of neighbouring properties.
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CT said:
I'm not sure I agree with that Pete. Hundreds of officers engaged for days on enquiries and local residents willingly turning out to spend hours searching the area. There's sure to be a backlash over this. I'm the first to defend the cops as you've no doubt noticed, but I think they dropped the ball badly on this one.
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but equally imagine the backlash if they'd torn the house apart due to hazell's record and found nothing - they'd have had rioting in the streets and "they fink we're guilty cos we're like fick an that" allegations of police victimisation coming out their ears.

Point being that its easy to be wise with hindsight - but less easy at the time
 
I can't read the daily mail any more. I've got a thing in firefox that just shows me kittens instead. Saves accidentally reading it and getting annoyed :)
 
Searching the loft hardly means tearing the house apart.

The only saving grace seems to be the degree of assistance in concealing the body by the neighbour and whether or not it should have reasonably still been found. I've seen sniffer dogs lifted into roof spaces many times.

If (for example) the body had been taken from the roof space down into the adjoining house at some stage and while the loft searches were being conducted, then it could, and should, let them off the hook.
 
CT said:
Searching the loft hardly means tearing the house apart.
.
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true but its an indication you think the parents are up to no good - its not like a kid could get up there unaided so you can't cover it under " we just want to check little jonny isnt hiding"

which while its easy to say if they are inocent they have nothing to fear , the average parent who hasnt harmed their child is going to be outraged at the suggestion that they have - and if combined with local poor relationships with police could easily be enough to kick off.

Also where do you draw the line - if the roof space is clear do you start ripping up floor boards, taking the side panel off the bath, lifting the patio , taking furniture to bits ?
 
srichards said:
I can't read the daily mail any more. I've got a thing in firefox that just shows me kittens instead. Saves accidentally reading it and getting annoyed :)
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I need that for the print version, I borrow a copy for the puzzles, but if I make the mistake of reading it I find my blood pressure has risen by page 5 :lol:
 
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