The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Middlesbrough got a mention on the news today, they said that for the size of the population it's the hardest hit area outside London. They mentioned underlying health issues in the population and didn't mention behaviour. To be fair they may be right and the apparent flouting of social distancing I've seen may not be a part of it at all but if it isn't maybe it's been luck not judgement.
 
JohnC6 said:
By the way, the way things are going we'll be past the deadline for requesting an extension to EU discussions..it's going under the radar.. and we'll be out without a deal at the end of the year. The date is June 30th. just 18 days to go and it's enshrined in EU law.

Maybe the undecided and Tory voters who think this Administration has not only, at best, been economical with the truth but indulged in outright deception, will not be prepared to give them their vote especially if Starmer & co get their act together .
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As an almost lifelong Labour supporter who switched to the Conservatives for Brexit and local issue reasons I'll watch developments closely but all I can say is that Starmer and co have far from impressed me so far. It's not enough to be the opposition, for me they have to be credible and have a plan I prefer. Loyalties and the days of voting for someone because we've always voted that way are over for many now. There's time but if the cons do what they've said they'll do I personally think that Labour have a very hard task ahead of them especially if they don't behave differently outside London where they've lost a lot of people.

I agree with no extension to Brexit as once one is agreed what's to stop another and another and another. The suspicion will be that the intent is to not leave at all and then we're back to wheeling out the hated by many Nigel Farage again.
 
woof woof said:
As an almost lifelong Labour supporter who switched to the Conservatives for Brexit and local issue reasons I'll watch developments closely but all I can say is that Starmer and co have far from impressed me so far. It's not enough to be the opposition, for me they have to be credible and have a plan I prefer. Loyalties and the days of voting for someone because we've always voted that way are over for many now. There's time but if the cons do what they've said they'll do I personally think that Labour have a very hard task ahead of them especially if they don't behave differently outside London where they've lost a lot of people.

I agree with no extension to Brexit as once one is agreed what's to stop another and another and another. The suspicion will be that the intent is to not leave at all and then we're back to wheeling out the hated by many Nigel Farage again.
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It’s early days, Alan. He was elected leader during lockdown and hasn’t really had a chance to shape the future.

Yes.agree. We need to get on with it now as more prevarication just leaves Business unable to plan. In my post I mentioned June 30th as the deadline for requesting an extension for the talks and didn’t expect,later today to hear Michael Gove say that they won’t be asking for an extension. In case you weren’t aware ..it was just a few hours ago https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...-as-michael-gove-confirms-border-checks-uturn

This article re Customs readiness. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-controls-single-market-latest-a9562961.html
 
woof woof said:
I agree with no extension to Brexit as once one is agreed what's to stop another and another and another. The suspicion will be that the intent is to not leave at all and then we're back to wheeling out the hated by many Nigel Farage again.
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only a "suspicion"....lol

Its looking pretty positive for no extension, it would be an impossible mountain to climb after going back on that at least.
However, considering the utter 80ll0cks that's been going on this year, we all ought to re-evaluate what constitutes sensible likely outcomes.
 
woof woof said:
As an almost lifelong Labour supporter who switched to the Conservatives for Brexit and local issue reasons I'll watch developments closely but all I can say is that Starmer and co have far from impressed me so far. It's not enough to be the opposition, for me they have to be credible and have a plan I prefer. Loyalties and the days of voting for someone because we've always voted that way are over for many now. There's time but if the cons do what they've said they'll do I personally think that Labour have a very hard task ahead of them especially if they don't behave differently outside London where they've lost a lot of people.

I agree with no extension to Brexit as once one is agreed what's to stop another and another and another. The suspicion will be that the intent is to not leave at all and then we're back to wheeling out the hated by many Nigel Farage again.
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I would argue that something as devastating as Covid and that will be with us next year makes Brexit a silly thing to pursue. This is a game changer of unimaginable proportions and makes no sense to further damage a devastated economy. I am sure that if we asked the EU to admit back in they would, and it would help us recover. Now firms will need to manage no deal Brexit and Covid fall out. The eu will be focussed on Covid recovery and so we screw our selves.
 
cambsno said:
I would argue that something as devastating as Covid and that will be with us next year makes Brexit a silly thing to pursue.
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Yes.

It's awful to think that the current government is so idealogically fixated as to injure the lives of millions to pursue a policy that was ambitious at the very best and now looks like a folly of insane proportions.
 
cambsno said:
I would argue that something as devastating as Covid and that will be with us next year makes Brexit a silly thing to pursue. This is a game changer of unimaginable proportions and makes no sense to further damage a devastated economy. I am sure that if we asked the EU to admit back in they would, and it would help us recover. Now firms will need to manage no deal Brexit and Covid fall out. The eu will be focussed on Covid recovery and so we screw our selves.
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Yes, but I don’t think they will want us back for a very long time now we have completely destroyed our reputation in Europe (not just EU), the Commonwealth and the World generally :).
 
sphexx said:
Well, it’s not going to go away for a veeerry looooong time :).
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...and it's closely tied up with the causes, progress and effects of the infection.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
...and it's closely tied up with the causes, progress and effects of the infection.
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And the worse one that is coming. In fact preparations for pandemics have probably got worse thanks to the antics of the likes of Trump, Johnson, Putin, Bolsonaro & Co unless it wakes people up and causes a correction.
 
Why would they want to extend the transition period? Covid-19 provides a very convenient scapegoat to hide behind for any post-Brexit catastrophes that befall the economy, if by some miracle Boris is right & the economy bounces back he can claim it was due to Brexit too. A win-win situation for the pro-Brexit camp....
 
Does anyone else think this social bubble thing is going to cause grief to some families
Suppose 2 or more of the parents live on their own, how do you decide which to favour,
unless I am wrong you can only mix with one person living on their own so if you have widowed
or divorced parent/grandparents you have to chose and they also have to chose which
of their children the want to social bubble with
 
Gremlin said:
Does anyone else think this social bubble thing is going to cause grief to some families
Suppose 2 or more of the parents live on their own, how do you decide which to favour,
unless I am wrong you can only mix with one person living on their own so if you have widowed
or divorced parent/grandparents you have to chose and they also have to chose which
of their children the want to social bubble with
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I think you’re right. However as I posted earlier it the government‘s cunning (‘cumming‘ :)) plan to wipe out some more elderly (having done very well with care homes :() and free up the housing market for a Brexit boom :(.
 
725a8eef1dc5450cb1c0c3e16e52b1ee.jpg

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...virus-frying-pan-into-the-brexit-fire-cartoon
 
sphexx said:
I think you’re right. However as I posted earlier it the government‘s cunning (‘cumming‘ :)) plan to wipe out some more elderly (having done very well with care homes :() and free up the housing market for a Brexit boom :(.
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Killing off the old saves the state a fortune (pensions, social care etc) and could deliver a substantial amount of inheritance tax from their estates. Those inheriting might 'splash' the cash they receive yielding even more revenue from VAT.
 
Gremlin said:
Does anyone else think this social bubble thing is going to cause grief to some families
Suppose 2 or more of the parents live on their own, how do you decide which to favour,
unless I am wrong you can only mix with one person living on their own so if you have widowed
or divorced parent/grandparents you have to chose and they also have to chose which
of their children the want to social bubble with
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People will simply ignore it - hard to be found out if you see both sets!

I think the government are fighting a losing battle with lockdown - the behaviour scientists are right, you can only keep lockdown for so long before people rebel. People see others in the media breaking the rules and then think that going round someones house is not that serious. I mean, if you can have thousands of protestors in London and other cities, then 4 or 6 people seeing is other is hardly going to add much to the threat!
 
ancient_mariner said:
I really think the Cummings episode killed a willingness to isolate, and took away reasons for people not to do stuff like the protests.
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Yes, I think this was the start of it - not the fact that he did it, but the fact that he was adamant he hadn't broken the rules and had support from the government.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I really think the Cummings episode killed a willingness to isolate, and took away reasons for people not to do stuff like the protests.
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cambsno said:
Yes, I think this was the start of it - not the fact that he did it, but the fact that he was adamant he hadn't broken the rules and had support from the government.
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I agree with both, but from my point of view I chose to protect myself and others like family and friends
Do I stay at home in isolation, no, I go out fr walks with my camera to some lovely places I have discovered
since all this started, some close to home some I drive to,
But I never socialise to closely with people I may meet, nay have a chat with them but maintain a distance,
only things I can't keep away is very muddy dogs who seems to love to say hello, not had so many muddy
paw prints for ages, it's lovely
 
Gremlin said:
I agree with both, but from my point of view I chose to protect myself and others like family and friends
Do I stay at home in isolation, no, I go out fr walks with my camera to some lovely places I have discovered
since all this started, some close to home some I drive to,
But I never socialise to closely with people I may meet, nay have a chat with them but maintain a distance,
only things I can't keep away is very muddy dogs who seems to love to say hello, not had so many muddy
paw prints for ages, it's lovely
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I don’t think there is much evidence that dogs can carry coronavirus but you should probably avoid tigers :).
 
ancient_mariner said:
I really think the Cummings episode killed a willingness to isolate, and took away reasons for people not to do stuff like the protests.
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Where is the two wrongs don't make a right? If he jumped off a cliff, would everyone follow or use their grey matter?
 
dcash29 said:
Where is the two wrongs don't make a right? If he jumped off a cliff, would everyone follow or use their grey matter?
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Errrr... jumping off a cliff will probably kill you. Travelling across the country when you are not supposed to (statistically speaking) is barely any risk depending on your circumstances.
 
cambsno said:
Errrr... jumping off a cliff will probably kill you. Travelling across the country when you are not supposed to (statistically speaking) is barely any risk depending on your circumstances.
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I know quite a few people who since the Cummings episode have been ignoring quite a lot of the rules, they appear to still be being "sensible" with regards to social distancing, but certainly ignoring the 6 people max rule and were already creating "bubbles" before the announcement. With the general attitude of "well if the rules don't apply to them.."
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I know quite a few people who since the Cummings episode have been ignoring quite a lot of the rules, they appear to still be being "sensible" with regards to social distancing, but certainly ignoring the 6 people max rule and were already creating "bubbles" before the announcement. With the general attitude of "well if the rules don't apply to them.."
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Exactly. The point is that any one “transgression” is unlikely to have much effect, so people rationalise that it’s OK for them, the problems arise when everyone does it :(. It reminds me of the arguments put forward (by some on TP too) for not voting, ie “my vote won’t make any difference”, I wonder if they are the same people? :). I guess it’s a lack of “community spirit”.
 
Retune said:
View: https://BANNED/ObserverUK/status/1272068387573653504
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https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-observer/

If all you read and all the info you gain is from left of centre publications (Guardian, BBC, Observer etc) then you are hardly providing yourself with a balanced viewpoint and will always come to the same conclusions.

The Guardian certainly seems to be the political factual reference among the rgular posters.

I'm sure @jakeblu will ask the same old question; it's very easy to remain factual but heavilly biased by selecting the facts you choose to print.
 
RWDW said:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-observer/

If all you read and all the info you gain is from left of centre publications (Guardian, BBC, Observer etc) then you are hardly providing yourself with a balanced viewpoint and will always come to the same conclusions.

The Guardian certainly seems to be the political factual reference among the rgular posters.

I'm sure @jakeblu will ask the same old question; it's very easy to remain factual but heavilly biased by selecting the facts you choose to print.
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I'm beginning to think you really don't see the irony of posting a link to criticise a newspaper a link which reports the Guardian has a high level of factual reporting! Isn't that really the main purpose of a news source, to be factually correct? Further, for your information I pay a small subscription to the Telegraph as well as the Guardian, I just don't usual post links from the Telegraph because its behind a paywall.
 
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RWDW said:
If all you read and all the info you gain is from left of centre publications (Guardian, BBC, Observer etc) then you are hardly providing yourself with a balanced viewpoint and will always come to the same conclusions.
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View: https://BANNED/pmdfoster/status/1264459136441430016
 
sphexx said:
Exactly. The point is that any one “transgression” is unlikely to have much effect, so people rationalise that it’s OK for them, the problems arise when everyone does it :(. It reminds me of the arguments put forward (by some on TP too) for not voting, ie “my vote won’t make any difference”, I wonder if they are the same people? :). I guess it’s a lack of “community spirit”.
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I’ve just checked some dates because on Saturday May 23rd I saw 4 Muslim males in their Islamic dress code arrive at a house, go in for 10 minutes or so return to the car and drive off. On Friday May 22nd a nearby Muslim couple drove 155 miles to spend several days with her parents. The reason for both occurrences was the same. Eid al-Fitr..ie the first day of the ending of the month of Ramadan was Saturday May 23rd. The following day was the official end. On May 13th. the restrictions on reasons for driving And how far were eased and I’ve checked..it didn’t include for reasons associated with religious festivals. The house visit remained unlawful too.

So..yes..the posts above about people deciding to do their own thing..within reason..ie their interpretation of ‘reason’ , is true. Whether motivated by the actions of Dom Cummings may or may not have influenced decisions (but from what I heard from callers to Five Live it did ) people have been breaching the law. Maybe daily reducing of cases and deaths encouraged a relaxing mindset too and re travel,especially a belief that being stopped by police was pretty remote . In addition, re the 320 mile round trip to parents..as you point out, Richard, there’s the attitude ....what difference will our journey make ?
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I know quite a few people who since the Cummings episode have been ignoring quite a lot of the rules, they appear to still be being "sensible" with regards to social distancing, but certainly ignoring the 6 people max rule and were already creating "bubbles" before the announcement. With the general attitude of "well if the rules don't apply to them.."
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Much more worrying is the amount of people who are now choosing to ignore social distancing rules following last weekend protests & violence.
These very same people will be quick to place the blame elsewhere should a second wave hit.
 
RWDW said:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-observer/

If all you read and all the info you gain is from left of centre publications (Guardian, BBC, Observer etc) then you are hardly providing yourself with a balanced viewpoint and will always come to the same conclusions.

The Guardian certainly seems to be the political factual reference among the rgular posters.

I'm sure @jakeblu will ask the same old question; it's very easy to remain factual but heavilly biased by selecting the facts you choose to print.
Click to expand...

I don't trust any of the media on a singular basis, although even comparing multiple sources doesn't always hold water as they seem to share similar sources sometimes. I like Reuters and the FT, but I'll still browse all media sources if it's something of interest and occasionally social media.

I remember back during the large Brexit debates I took the time to look into news reports by the Guardian in more detail.

I would in fact say that they are pretty factual with their news reports, but I did notice that whilst the facts used would be correct, they wouldn't necessarily produce all the facts, and this could of course put a bias or spin on the report. But I'm quite sure you'll find this in almost any media outlet.

I completely ignore Guardian opinion pieces.
 
jakeblu said:
I'm beginning to think you really don't see the irony of posting a link to criticise a newspaper a link which reports the Guardian has a high level of factual reporting! Isn't that really the main purpose of a news source, to be factually correct? Further, for your information I pay a small subscription to the Telegraph as well as the Guardian, I just don't usual post links from the Telegraph because its behind a paywall.
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What I sit here questioning is why you can't appreciate something can remain factual but be completely biased! Surely you can see that producing ONLY the facts that back up your agenda and omitting other facts then a very biased reporting of something is produced.
............and , No - the media should remain impartial not just produce facts that give a political bias - if you can't appreciate that then your opinion is always going to follow that bias and there is little point entering a debate.

Edit to add:

If you read reviews of cameras, at the end it will quite often give the 'Pro's & Con's' of the product. If you produced only the 'Pro's' you have remained factual but have given a very biased view point.
 
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