The virus. PPE. Part 1

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We have a positive case in a member of staff at our local Heron freezer shop, the shop has done a deep clean and reopened, this they said is following government guidelines, bit confused here as i thought if you came in contact with a positive case you should self isolate, why are the rest of the staff at work then its only a small shop.
 
dcash29 said:
Thanks for pointing this out Marc, I didn't see the post by the OP. Interesting LIKES (y)
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'likes' can often be very telling as to who is lurking and after a while often reveals a clear bias, on all sides obviously. In my opinion of course
 
dcash29 said:
Thanks for pointing this out Marc, I didn't see the post by the OP. Interesting LIKES (y)
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gman said:
'likes' can often be very telling as to who is lurking and after a while often reveals a clear bias, on all sides obviously. In my opinion of course
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Or they could just be people agreeing that the thread should get back on topic.

Move on please.
 
Interestingly this morning I needed to talk to my credit card people.
Got through quite easily and had the possible problem sorted with no problems
In the past I have had to go through all sorts of questions and security things
Made life so much simpler, just wish it could always be like this, after all why would I want
to pay someone else's CC bill
 
Gremlin said:
Interestingly this morning I needed to talk to my credit card people.
Got through quite easily and had the possible problem sorted with no problems
In the past I have had to go through all sorts of questions and security things
Made life so much simpler, just wish it could always be like this, after all why would I want
to pay someone else's CC bill
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There might be reasons, I’m sure not in your case of course, but if you are wealthy &/or criminal you could lay evidence of apparent corruption by doing that.
 
BBC political correspondent in an item about Conservative MPs being desperate to reopen schools etc said that if solutions can’t be found the “scientific advice will have to be changed” , I don’t know whether to laugh or cry :(.
 
Marc said:
Or they could just be people agreeing that the thread should get back on topic.

Move on please.
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I was meaning in general. You were very quick to jump on me there.
 
sphexx said:
BBC political correspondent in an item about Conservative MPs being desperate to reopen schools etc said that if solutions can’t be found the “scientific advice will have to be changed” , I don’t know whether to laugh or cry :(.
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The schools situation really has been a bit of a mess. I've got a niggling worry that it's the schools which may cause a second wave.
 
Marc said:
I didn't jump on you, I quoted your response in context with the post you quoted.

As I said, move on!
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Whatever you say.
 
gman said:
The schools situation really has been a bit of a mess. I've got a niggling worry that it's the schools which may cause a second wave.
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I agree, the latest 'bright' idea is to get retired teachers back to work to help. I am sure those older teachers & those with medical conditions would relish the chance to return to their 'germ' factories......
 
broc said:
I agree, the latest 'bright' idea is to get retired teachers back to work to help. I am sure those older teachers & those with medical conditions would relish the chance to return to their 'germ' factories......
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Yes, I think the government is targeting the elderly independents now (having done their worst with the care homes) with grandchildren being encouraged to visit g-parents etc :( — only half-joking!
 
sphexx said:
Yes, I think the government is targeting the elderly independents now (having done their worst with the care homes) with grandchildren being encouraged to visit g-parents etc :( — only half-joking!
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In all seriousness its a huge task - what do kids do who live with people with health conditions? How do we enforce some form of social distancing, bearing in mind class sizes are 20-30, then you add the parents who dont want little johnny to go back 'until its safe'. Meanwhile, kids education will suffer and they will not develop. You then have the issue around kids not going to school but parents needing to go back to work, fine for me, ours are old enough not to worry about that and in any case wife and I can work from home often, but not everyone is in that position, especially as we return to retail and leisure being open and offices getting people back. Then all it takes is a child to catch Covid and then what, isolate the class for 14 days, isolate the whole school???
 
This would be a very good time to experiment with some of the education theories that have emerged during the last 3 decades. Why build a school to hold 1,000 children when it would be far cheaper to provide each child with a computer system and other equipment to enable them to learn at home? Perhaps we could have a hybrid system where children go to school on some days and learn from home on others. School buildings could be smaller and thus less expensive if, say, only 200 children will be in the buildings at any one time. Subjects requiring specialised equipment such as gyms or laboratiories could be catered for at buildings shared among several school areas.

These ideas will need to be tailored to local needs. The Department of Education's desire for a single model to fit all will need to be replaced by the provision of special skills in establishing the best solutions for each area's needs.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
This would be a very good time to experiment with some of the education theories that have emerged during the last 3 decades. Why build a school to hold 1,000 children when it would be far cheaper to provide each child with a computer system and other equipment to enable them to learn at home? Perhaps we could have a hybrid system where children go to school on some days and learn from home on others. School buildings could be smaller and thus less expensive if, say, only 200 children will be in the buildings at any one time. Subjects requiring specialised equipment such as gyms or laboratiories could be catered for at buildings shared among several school areas.

These ideas will need to be tailored to local needs. The Department of Education's desire for a single model to fit all will need to be replaced by the provision of special skills in establishing the best solutions for each area's needs.
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Much of the school system is around social interaction and working as a team/pairs. You do lose that massively with home schooling. Doesnt help parents that work either!
 
cambsno said:
Much of the school system is around social interaction and working as a team/pairs. You do lose that massively with home schooling. Doesnt help parents that work either!
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True. One size never fits all. However this is a good time to review the single size schooling that we're currently using.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
This would be a very good time to experiment with some of the education theories that have emerged during the last 3 decades. Why build a school to hold 1,000 children when it would be far cheaper to provide each child with a computer system and other equipment to enable them to learn at home? Perhaps we could have a hybrid system where children go to school on some days and learn from home on others. School buildings could be smaller and thus less expensive if, say, only 200 children will be in the buildings at any one time. Subjects requiring specialised equipment such as gyms or laboratiories could be catered for at buildings shared among several school areas.

These ideas will need to be tailored to local needs. The Department of Education's desire for a single model to fit all will need to be replaced by the provision of special skills in establishing the best solutions for each area's needs.
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You would need thinking politicians for that :(. It’s already been said they should have been planning for using other buildings and so for a return with smaller class sizes but nothing has been done :(.
 
cambsno said:
Much of the school system is around social interaction and working as a team/pairs. You do lose that massively with home schooling. Doesnt help parents that work either!
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Schooling could still provide social interaction and team work but over less than 5 days a week. Yes, it might cause some difficulties for some families with work, but I thought that Covid-19 was suppose to change the world of work forever, this would certainly be a good reason to do so. Maybe a 4 day week, each parent having a different midweek day off and kids at a physical school say 3 days a week on a rota basis.
 
jakeblu said:
Schooling could still provide social interaction and team work but over less than 5 days a week. Yes, it might cause some difficulties for some families with work, but I thought that Covid-19 was suppose to change the world of work forever, this would certainly be a good reason to do so. Maybe a 4 day week, each parent having a different midweek day off and kids at a physical school say 3 days a week on a rota basis.
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In theory yes but so many obstacles to overcome like people who travel as part of their jobs, people working shifts that vary, part time workers who need to fit around school hours... not to mention families with only 1 parent. Who would choose what day kids don't physically go in, would they miss out on not being there those days or would whole classes be off the same day?
 
cambsno said:
In theory yes but so many obstacles to overcome.
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This is true. However, this is one of those moments when we could start major changes. Flexible work and education have both been on the agenda for many years. The idea of a universal basic income is now at least being discussed. Things can change for the better if we accept that all lives matter.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
This is true. However, this is one of those moments when we could start major changes. Flexible work and education have both been on the agenda for many years. The idea of a universal basic income is now at least being discussed. Things can change for the better if we accept that all lives matter.
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Well the first problem is due you trust Boris & co to get this right? Then you have the issue around dealing with COvid, after effects of Covid and Brexit, lets at least try to get one of these right rather than do lots badly. I think we are hindered by our goverments - in 4 years time we could see Labour in, or a coalition, and then how does that direction change - it needs to be independent of whoever is in power.

The same issues are there for businesses too.
 
This might balance things up a bit, doughnuts will just blow out and brighter kids will catch up.
University numbers will fall alarmingly if three years p*** up isn't on the cards
Again those who do enrol will be those who actually want to get something worth having
 
cambsno said:
Well the first problem is due you trust Boris & co to get this right? Then you have the issue around dealing with COvid, after effects of Covid and Brexit, lets at least try to get one of these right rather than do lots badly. I think we are hindered by our goverments - in 4 years time we could see Labour in, or a coalition, and then how does that direction change - it needs to be independent of whoever is in power.

The same issues are there for businesses too.
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There are issues, but with the right will then I think it can be done and genuinely make life better.
 
jakeblu said:
There are issues, but with the right will then I think it can be done and genuinely make life better.
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Exactly so. There has to come a point where this race to the bottom is reversed and we get real politicians who understand there needs to be balance in our government and not just pandering to the extremes.
 
I don't think the findings of that report will come as any surprise to many,Nige. I think most people are, by now, well aware that an earlier lockdown should have been put in place and by not having done that it's costs many lives. It was clear where the government's priorities lay when they allowed the Cheltenham Races,the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid UEFA game ,a marathon and other smaller but substantial gatherings to take place but notably the Cheltenham Races with 250,000-plus attending over the 4-day event .Beyond that can criticism be levelled at behavioural scientists whose advice (I understand) was that too early a lockdown could be counter-productive.

Is it going to make any difference ? Is anyone going to be held to account ? Are people going to say "Well, we haven't had anything like this before and mistakes will be made" notwithstanding that the unfolding catastrophe was there for all to see in Italy and Spain, especially.

In election terms the next one is due May 2nd 2024. Will it all have any bearing on how people will vote ? It's bad enough that we didn't lock down or at least stop those high profile events going ahead and as I mentioned at the time imo to save the huge losses by the racecourse and Betting industry..unforgivable and beyond that the daily deception regarding data. I watched an interview with Matt Hacock a few days ago (actually, it was Andrew Marr last Sunday) and unbelievably when asked how many people had been tested he said 200,000. Andrew Marr asked "Is that people tested..I asked about people ? " Answer "No, that was overall" (something similar without getting it back up on the posdacast)It was deja vue wasn't it. The same deception was in play when Fiona Bruce (Question Time) interviewed Stephen Barclay (Sec. of State for Exiting the EU) several weeks ago and he had to be pressed on the very same discrepancy after being asked specifically about the number of people tested.. By the way, the way things are going we'll be past the deadline for requesting an extension to EU discussions..it's going under the radar.. and we'll be out without a deal at the end of the year. The date is June 30th. just 18 days to go and it's enshrined in EU law.

Maybe the undecided and Tory voters who think this Administration has not only, at best, been economical with the truth but indulged in outright deception, will not be prepared to give them their vote especially if Starmer & co get their act together .

NOW...to all...:) This is not to take this PPE thread in that direction but I tend to think beyond the immediate and the general gist is that Boris & co (as school reports sometimes state).'could do ..or have done..better' but what's hit home with me is the deception..some would say downright lies.
 
JohnC6 said:
I don't think the findings of that report will come as any surprise to many,Nige. I think most people are, by now, well aware that an earlier lockdown should have been put in place and by not having done that it's costs many lives. It was clear where the government's priorities lay when they allowed the Cheltenham Races,the Liverpool v Atletico Madrid UEFA game ,a marathon and other smaller but substantial gatherings to take place but notably the Cheltenham Races with 250,000-plus attending over the 4-day event .Beyond that can criticism be levelled at behavioural scientists whose advice (I understand) was that too early a lockdown could be counter-productive.

Is it going to make any difference ? Is anyone going to be held to account ? Are people going to say "Well, we haven't had anything like this before and mistakes will be made" notwithstanding that the unfolding catastrophe was there for all to see in Italy and Spain, especially.

In election terms the next one is due May 2nd 2024. Will it all have any bearing on how people will vote ? It's bad enough that we didn't lock down or at least stop those high profile events going ahead and as I mentioned at the time imo to save the huge losses by the racecourse and Betting industry..unforgivable and beyond that the daily deception regarding data. I watched an interview with Matt Hacock a few days ago (actually, it was Andrew Marr last Sunday) and unbelievably when asked how many people had been tested he said 200,000. Andrew Marr asked "Is that people tested..I asked about people ? " Answer "No, that was overall" (something similar without getting it back up on the posdacast)It was deja vue wasn't it. The same deception was in play when Fiona Bruce (Question Time) interviewed Stephen Barclay (Sec. of State for Exiting the EU) several weeks ago and he had to be pressed on the very same discrepancy after being asked specifically about the number of people tested.. By the way, the way things are going we'll be past the deadline for requesting an extension to EU discussions..it's going under the radar.. and we'll be out without a deal at the end of the year. The date is June 30th. just 18 days to go and it's enshrined in EU law.

Maybe the undecided and Tory voters who think this Administration has not only, at best, been economical with the truth but indulged in outright deception, will not be prepared to give them their vote especially if Starmer & co get their act together .

NOW...to all...:) This is not to take this PPE thread in that direction but I tend to think beyond the immediate and the general gist is that Boris & co (as school reports sometimes state).'could do ..or have done..better' but what's hit home with me is the deception..some would say downright lies.
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The latest BBC 4 “More or Less” (podcast https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jw02 but also broadcast today at 4:30 I think) is informative as usual.

It would seem that SAGE etc advice was wrong early on and did not accept reports from the members of various committees that the virus was spreading faster — and the opinions of many outsiders at the time.

They also report again on the fiddling of the government testing figures and that HMG will not release figures of actual testing.

Also a piece on the way the so-called 100% accuracy of antibody testing is being calculated fiddled by the various drug companies.

Also the weird way deaths in Spain are recorded so that some days no deaths appear to occur — I think, if I’ve got this right, deaths can take 2 days to be recorded but only deaths the previous day are reported so some of these never get counted :(.
Edit: fat finger posting before I’d finished :(
 
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A dog's dinner all round, then Richard. Claim and counter claim.The mind boggles. You'd have thought that if some SAGE members were claiming a much faster infection rate they would have looked more carefully at the claims of those siren voices.

For me, it doesn't detract from the sensible course of action re those large gatherings...ie don't allow them to go ahead.

More or Less is a very interesting programme.I do tune in sometimes.
 
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