The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Yes it is two tests, but when I have both eye tested at opticians it counts as one eye test bit two. Maybe to be clear they should say we tested x number of people rather than number of tests

I wonder if that's one appointment for your eyes to be tested? Semantics perhaps, or just a shortening of the number of words for the occasion. If you had 2 teeth filled by a dentist I'm reasonably sure they would not treat that as a single filling.

Not trying to be difficult, but for me, I see little point in considering testing capacity in terms of individuals when a controlling factor will be how many tubes can be bunged on the PCR system each day.
 
By the way. I don't think Boris Johnson looks well. I think he's come back too soon. .I've watched a few tv interviews with people who have been through what he went through and this COVID-19 leaves its mark for a good while.

this is something that seems to be getting missed and I’m not sure why.

There are a lot of those that have had severe symptoms but not died that will walk away with life changing illnesses due to this and may well die long before they would have, had they not caught it.
 
I wonder if that's one appointment for your eyes to be tested? Semantics perhaps, or just a shortening of the number of words for the occasion. If you had 2 teeth filled by a dentist I'm reasonably sure they would not treat that as a single filling.

Not trying to be difficult, but for me, I see little point in considering testing capacity in terms of individuals when a controlling factor will be how many tubes can be bunged on the PCR system each day.

I have the same problem at work.

Q to me: How much revenue have we done in APAC?

Me: Do you mean how much have the reps in APAC sold (which could include revenue from outside APAC region), or do you mean how much have we sold in APAC region (which will include sales from reps based in UK). It is semantics, but when giving a number you need to be really clear about what it is you are reporting against.

Most people would assume that when we say we did 100,000 tests that was 100,000 tests to 100,000 people, when it could have been 100,000 tests to 80,000 people.
 
How many tests do you 2 samples should be? I'm genuinely puzzled by this comment and the following reactions, because it appears to be 2 separate samples, and that would normally = 2 tests. You can't put both samples into a single tube, run the assay and divide the result by 2 at the end.
It’s misleading though Toni, and frankly the only figure that really counts is the number of people tested.
 
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By the way. I don't think Boris Johnson looks well. I think he's come back too soon. .I've watched a few tv interviews with people who have been through what he went through and this COVID-19 leaves its mark for a good while.
I thought the same.
 
So Dominic Cummings travelled nearly 300 miles, when he had COVID symptoms.

One rule for us....

So does Johnson :
a) sack Cummings or
b) sweep it under the carpet?

My money is on b, and right on cue the media will come up with a diversionary story to take the heat off them.

Seriously though, one of, if not the PM's most senior advisors travels 300 miles or so, whilst he is meant to be in isolation after number 10 states he has symptoms of a virus that can be deadly to older folks, visits older folks putting his own parents at risk of the virus! ..................what a thoughtful guy.
 
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How many tests do you 2 samples should be? I'm genuinely puzzled by this comment and the following reactions, because it appears to be 2 separate samples, and that would normally = 2 tests. You can't put both samples into a single tube, run the assay and divide the result by 2 at the end.

I'd count it on the number of outcomes, of which there is only one. That person has either tested positive, or not.
 
I'd count it on the number of outcomes, of which there is only one. That person has either tested positive, or not.
Agreed. The logical way to count these things is "how many people have we tested".
 
This is worth listening to. It's Prof Ian Boyd, ex Chair of SAGE (from before Covid) but back on SAGE as a member for the last month, being interviewed on the BBCs Coronavirus Podcast.

Unlike the last time they had a scientist on, he was given enough time to say something interesting, especially if you aren't a scientist, or have no experience of how scientific advisors and Government interact.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jbwp/the-coronavirus-newscast-series-1-21052020
 
This is worth listening to. It's Prof Ian Boyd, ex Chair of SAGE (from before Covid) but back on SAGE as a member for the last month, being interviewed on the BBCs Coronavirus Podcast.

Unlike the last time they had a scientist on, he was given enough time to say something interesting, especially if you aren't a scientist, or have no experience of how scientific advisors and Government interact.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jbwp/the-coronavirus-newscast-series-1-21052020

That was very interesting, calm and logical.
 
It seems the elite can do what they want,when they want, just as long as us plebs obey.


https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/23/down...ot-break-lockdown-going-parents-home-12747182

...and just for clarification:

View attachment 280049

What a f*****g farce, He decides to travel 300 miles for childcare.......................we're all in this together.

The excuse doesn't even make sense, what difference does it make if they were in separate properties on the land? How can they have helped with childcare without there being contact?
 
Durham police 23.5.2020 :- "Officers explained to the family the guidance around self-isolating and reiterated the appropriate advice regarding essential travel"

Downing street 23.5.2020 :- "At no stage were he or his family spoken to by the police regarding this matter"

Who do you believe?
 
Who do you believe?
One thing is becoming clear: the current leadership of the British government are at best bordering on incompetent.

It would be a good time for the rest of their party to make common cause with the opposition parties, move a vote of no confidence and, on winning it, put forward a competent team to replace the current cabinet.

In an emergency such as this, the last thing any country needs is to allow partisan politics to interfere with the need to produce solutions that benefit both the maximum number of individuals and the future of the country as a whole.
 
Boris now says Cummings did nothing wrong and followed the guidance.

But Boris also said:

View: https://BANNED/BBCNews/status/1240331179913510912?s=19
 
One thing is becoming clear: the current leadership of the British government are at best bordering on incompetent.

It would be a good time for the rest of their party to make common cause with the opposition parties, move a vote of no confidence and, on winning it, put forward a competent team to replace the current cabinet.

In an emergency such as this, the last thing any country needs is to allow partisan politics to interfere with the need to produce solutions that benefit both the maximum number of individuals and the future of the country as a whole.

Great idea but why on earth would they do that. A Tory a would always prefer an inept Tory government to a good labour one (and vice verse) - doing so would probably mean being kicked out the party and losing your job as an mp.
 
Boris now says Cummings did nothing wrong and followed the guidance.

But Boris also said:

View: https://BANNED/BBCNews/status/1240331179913510912?s=19
He was also seen with a young child probably within the quarantine period and when he was implying the grandparents were childminding — the date aren’t completely clear Yet.
 
I'm not a fan of Dominic Cummings,but if his wife had coronavirus and he started showing symptoms, and they were worried about their young son should they both become ill, what should they have done?
If my son and daughter in law were ill and unable to look after our grandkids, we would look after them.
 
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I'm not a fan of Dominic Cummings,but if his wife had coronavirus and he started showing symptoms, are they were worried about their young son should they both become ill, what should they have done?
If my son and daughter in law were ill and unable to look after our grandkids, we would look after them.

Stayed at home the same as we had to when we were both ill with it?

Rather than risk spreading it to more vulnerable people?

Obey the guidelines he helped write?
 
What ever the vast majority of people with kids who caught covid-19 did, likely stay at home and self isolate as the governement advised .
That's fair enough, but the vast majority of people with kids would possibly have relatives not too far away that could help out If the parents became too ill to watch the kids.
If he was genuinely concerned that he didn't, then I can see how he would consider what he did to be reasonable.
 
It’s misleading though Toni, and frankly the only figure that really counts is the number of people tested.


Exactly. I mentioned this very anomaly..deception, really..several days ago in a post when I was bemoaning the manipulation of numbers to make less look more. Infact, I think it was in my post in which I highlighted it in Question Time that took place last Thursday evening in which Fionas Bruce questioned Stephen Barclay (Sec of State for Exiting EU) over his claim of 127,000 tests when infact it was 71,600 on people..I assume the rest were in labs and as mentioned..two swabs on one person but it was intended for the public to believe it was the number of people who were tested when it wasn't. It's a misguided policy because it's not going to go unnoticed and then ministers are questioned over it,then they look uncomfortable answering as Stephen Barclay did and then the public lose confidence in any data put out. Not including the number of cases and deaths in care Homes was deception by omission. I just want honesty or is that being naive..too much to ask ?
 
That's fair enough, but the vast majority of people with kids would possibly have relatives not too far away that could help out If the parents became too ill to watch the kids.
If he was genuinely concerned that he didn't, then I can see how he would consider what he did to be reasonable.

Doesn't matter how close they live, the advice was to isolate. It was quite explicit that you shouldn't be getting grandparents to act as childcare.

Whether the rule was sensible as written is another argument, but those that helped craft them should be following them to the letter.
 
That's fair enough, but the vast majority of people with kids would possibly have relatives not too far away that could help out If the parents became too ill to watch the kids.
If he was genuinely concerned that he didn't, then I can see how he would consider what he did to be reasonable.
All that may be true and maybe their actions were reasonable, but why make a secret of it then? The PoW went to Scotland early on but no secret was made of it.
 
All that may be true and maybe their actions were reasonable, but why make a secret of it then? The PoW went to Scotland early on but no secret was made of it.
Who said it was a secret?
I'd assume he would have told Boris, but they're hardly going to tell the press
 
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That's a very different article to the other piece. They seem to be blaming everything on 'neoliberal elites', who are of course the arch enemies of Lexiters like these guys.
I didn’t read the whole thing, and I’m definitely not a Lexiter :), but I thought some of it was spot on, eg:
”The second reason why outsourcing authority to “the experts” is problematic is that the experts themselves actually continue to defer to the traditional wielders of authority. The government’s scientific advisers do not simply present the untrammelled “truth” of the situation and instruct ministers on what to do. Rather, they factor what they take to be political realities into their advice, warping it from the outset. As a detailed Reuters investigation found, scientists were slow to recommend stricter containment because they did not believe a lockdown would be politically acceptable. “We didn’t model it because it didn’t seem to be on the agenda”, one said. That only changed when the lockdown in Italy “opened up the policy space”.”

I‘m pretty sure I made a similar point about 100,000 :) posts ago in this thread so I may be biassed :(.
 
Who said it was a secret?
I'd assume he would have told Boris.
HMG were repeatedly asked where he was and made a mystery of it & his wife was writing about their home situation during that period so it’s in the public domain and I think the public had a right to know if he was breaking the rules that he had a hand in setting.
 
It’s misleading though Toni, and frankly the only figure that really counts is the number of people tested.

Maybe because of what I do this doesn't seem misleading, but I can certainly appreciate that it may be spun differently.
 
HMG were repeatedly asked where he was and made a mystery of it & his wife was writing about their home situation during that period so it’s in the public domain and I think the public had a right to know if he was breaking the rules that he had a hand in setting.
The public would have a right to know if he was breaking the rules.
Was he breaking the rules though? They and Boris don't consider he was, so the public wouldn't have a right to know.
 
The public would have a right to know if he was breaking the rules.
Was he breaking the rules though? They and Boris don't consider he was, so the public wouldn't have a right to know.

Yes.

The rules didn't include allowing us to travel to second homes, or to be able to use family as childcare. Boris considered it to be a break in the rules when it wasn't referring to Dominic. See the tweet I posted earlier.
 
Yes.

The rules didn't include allowing us to travel to second homes, or to be able to use family as childcare. Boris considered it to be a break in the rules when it wasn't referring to Dominic. See the tweet I posted earlier.
Should not is not the same as must not though.
So they can interpret differently if it suits them.
 
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Durham police 23.5.2020 :- "Officers explained to the family the guidance around self-isolating and reiterated the appropriate advice regarding essential travel"

Downing street 23.5.2020 :- "At no stage were he or his family spoken to by the police regarding this matter"

Who do you believe?

Lets see if the police spoke to him it will be recorded so easily verified, Downing Street have been shown to be shall we say economical with the truth when it suits them some would say pathological liars so on the balance I'll go with the police version.
 
One thing is becoming clear: the current leadership of the British government are at best bordering on incompetent.

It would be a good time for the rest of their party to make common cause with the opposition parties, move a vote of no confidence and, on winning it, put forward a competent team to replace the current cabinet.

In an emergency such as this, the last thing any country needs is to allow partisan politics to interfere with the need to produce solutions that benefit both the maximum number of individuals and the future of the country as a whole.

Hear,hear..as they say. That was incompetence (I'm being generous..more like being callous/heartless) in another area, other than the how the Cabinet is handling the COVID-19 situation and it's regarding the increased payment for NHS services for non-EEA health-care workers. The cabinet were facing a rebellion over it . The new contribution was to be £624 per annum from October an increase from the £400 since 2015. I was unaware they had to pay anything. They pay taxes and national insurance. Back in 2002 at the Bournemouth Conference the then newly-appointed chairwomen Theresa May made reference to the Nasty Party. Doesn't look like much has changed..well, not at the top, it obviously bothered the Conservative MPs ready to rebel and I would think many who didn't want to go as far as rebelling.

It is incompetence if only inasmuch as to even contemplate such a move let alone intend to implement it at this time. Whatever were they thinking of ? On Monday last Dominic Raab compounded it by stating, after the outcry, that Doctors,paramedics and nurses would be exempt from the increase for 12 months but not care workers. Keir Starmer challenged the PM over it at PMQs last Wednesday and BJ just stated that the NHS needs the money and it will go ahead. Amendments by the opposition parties to the Immigration Bill will be tabled when it comes back to parliament with the intention of suspending the charge temporarily or scrapping altogether and to include care workers. I imagine it's at this stage that rebel Conservative MPs will vote with the opposition.
 
doing so would probably mean being kicked out the party and losing your job as an mp.
I take the view that a decent person would tell them to withdraw the whip and be damned - before crossing over to join the other decent people. Decent people do exist but they have to remember and act on the old warning...
Whilst men are linked together, they easily and speedily communicate the alarm of any evil design. They are enabled to fathom it with common counsel, and to oppose it with united strength. Whereas, when they lie dispersed, without concert, order, or discipline, communication is uncertain, counsel difficult, and resistance impracticable. Where men are not acquainted with each other’s principles, nor experienced in each other’s talents, nor at all practised in their mutual habitudes and dispositions by joint efforts in business; no personal confidence, no friendship, no common interest, subsisting among them; it is evidently impossible that they can act a public part with uniformity, perseverance, or efficacy. In a connection, the most inconsiderable man, by adding to the weight of the whole, has his value, and his use; out of it, the greatest talents are wholly unserviceable to the public. No man, who is not inflamed by vain-glory into enthusiasm, can flatter himself that his single, unsupported, desultory, unsystematic endeavours, are of power to defeat the subtle designs and united cabals of ambitious citizens. When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

–Edmund Burke, Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents (1770)
 
I take the view that a decent person would tell them to withdraw the whip and be damned - before crossing over to join the other decent people. Decent people do exist but they have to remember and act on the old warning...

Easy to say but a lot of mps are like us, kids to provide for, mortgage etc. Would you put that at risk?
 
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