The virus. PPE. Part 1

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sphexx said:
Did you read it? “She wrote: "Day in, day out for 10 days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs. He could breathe, but only in a limited, shallow way."” .?

Revealing thar she wrote “doggo”, ie in hiding!
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Fairly hard to drive whilst lying down with twitching muscles, that was after they got there.
 
March 30th DC was showing symptoms, March 31 DC drives off with wife who has it to lock themselves away. Then yet another person goes to a paper and says DC drove off again. The world is not coming to an end as DC has not spread the virus at all so imo I don`t give a damn what he did. What I want to know is when we can start to try and live a bit better than now, instead of saying He did this He did that (y)
 
Fuji Dave said:
March 30th DC was showing symptoms, March 31 DC drives off with wife who has it to lock themselves away. Then yet another person goes to a paper and says DC drove off again. The world is not coming to an end as DC has not spread the virus at all so imo I don`t give a damn what he did. What I want to know is when we can start to try and live a bit better than now, instead of saying He did this He did that (y)
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Maybe, but a lot of people who have lost relatives etc etc are furious. My guess would be that if he doesn’t go any lockdown etc is over :(.
 
It's also worth noting that a significant proportion of transmission occurs in the pre-symptomatic phase. As a well-informed advisor who had attended SAGE meetings, Cummings would be aware of this - it's why close contacts as well as symptomatic patients are told to isolate. If Cummings assumed that he had become infected and would shortly become too incapacitated to care for his children, he should have also assumed he was infectious, even if he was not showing symptoms at the time of his first trip (it now seems the first of several). If he did not assume he was infected, then why make the trip at all?
 
sphexx said:
Maybe, but a lot of people who have lost relatives etc etc are furious. My guess would be that if he doesn’t go any lockdown etc is over :(.
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I lost two, yet I can`t be with my daughter but I don`t keep going on about DC. Yes he might of made a mistake, but know one is squeaky clean.
 
My take on this virus is, it came from what ever country and it does look like it might of come from China. Every single paper will be loving it as they are selling this news of all the sad deaths around the world but that is what scum do ( I hate the papers ). Every single country should be sticking their heads TOGETHER to find how to try and sort this deadly virus the USA are not being helpful at all plus other countries are now joining in on the USA act. Germany seem to be doing good at the moment with it all, yes the UK might of made a mistake with not stopping it by a late lockdown as did the USA. A lot of folk around the world have made a mistake that has cost many many lives sadly, some have bent the rules and some have not. For the easing of the lockdown it should of been you can go out but ONLY in your county where you life, UNLESS you are a carer ( a bit like me with my mum), what the papers should say is leave DC and others who have screwed up till the world or our country has sorted it then tear in to them. I was miffed when I read about DC as I can`t be with all my loved ones, as I`m at high risk as is my mother who is in to her 80s I have since found out the carers are taking the p*** out of my mum so tomorrow I will ride over to visit mum for a talk and then do her shopping and we will both stay over 6ft apart.
 
Fuji Dave said:
My take on this virus is, it came from what ever country and it does look like it might of come from China. Every single paper will be loving it as they are selling this news of all the sad deaths around the world but that is what scum do ( I hate the papers ). Every single country should be sticking their heads TOGETHER to find how to try and sort this deadly virus the USA are not being helpful at all plus other countries are now joining in on the USA act. Germany seem to be doing good at the moment with it all, yes the UK might of made a mistake with not stopping it by a late lockdown as did the USA. A lot of folk around the world have made a mistake that has cost many many lives sadly, some have bent the rules and some have not. For the easing of the lockdown it should of been you can go out but ONLY in your county where you life, UNLESS you are a carer ( a bit like me with my mum), what the papers should say is leave DC and others who have screwed up till the world or our country has sorted it then tear in to them. I was miffed when I read about DC as I can`t be with all my loved ones, as I`m at high risk as is my mother who is in to her 80s I have since found out the carers are taking the p*** out of my mum so tomorrow I will ride over to visit mum for a talk and then do her shopping and we will both stay over 6ft apart.
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But you are wrong about the papers, they are all or nearly all, suffering financially. Even the Guardian which has a very sttong online membership & a trust, is suffering.
 
Excellent piece of investigative journalism in The Sunday Times, sadly paywalled:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...hat-cost-thousands-of-british-lives-05sjvwv7g

View: https://BANNED/thesundaytimes/status/1264249914046976001


'We found that a key government committee was informed at the beginning of the month [March] by its two top modelling teams that Britain was facing a catastrophic loss of life without drastic action. By then, however, any hope of containing the virus through contact tracing had fallen through because the government had failed to adequately increase its testing capacity in January and February.'
...

'The government pursued its contain and delay strategy through the first two weeks of March despite the strong warnings from its two main modelling teams that it could lead to a catastrophic number of people being killed by the virus. The teams from Imperial College London and the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (LSHTM) both concluded separately that if the mitigation measures under the delay strategy were followed, it could result in about 250,000 deaths. They delivered papers detailing those findings to a meeting of Sage, the scientific advisory group for emergencies, on March 3 attended by government officials. It was only in the middle weekend of March that the key decision makers would fully engage with the fact that their mitigation measures risked a death sentence for a quarter of a million people and something far tougher was required. What is more, this realisation came only after the academic teams took it upon themselves to model a lockdown as the only solution that could avoid overwhelming the NHS — showing how deaths could be kept to the tens of thousands. There was a key meeting of the prime minister’s close team on the morning of Saturday, March 14, after the modellers’ new projections on the lockdown solution had been delivered. By this point European countries were hastily introducing lockdowns and there was growing support among Johnson’s team for the move. After being initially hostile to the idea, the prime minister put his libertarian instincts to one side and agreed in principle that a lockdown would be necessary. However, rather than locking down immediately, there was a further nine-day delay as he deliberated over how and when a lockdown should be introduced. That prevarication proved, for some, to be fatal. New back-dated modelling assessing the historic spread of the disease — which is published for the first time today — estimates the number of people infected in the UK was indeed doubling every three days during late February and early March, just as some of the initial reports from China in late January had suggested they might. The work, produced jointly by an Imperial College London team led by Samir Bhatt and Oxford University, suggests that on March 3 — the day the government committee was warned about the dire consequences of a mitigation approach — there were about 14,000 infections in the UK. Such was the speed of the spread of the virus that 200,000 people were estimated to be infected by the time the government began to change its mind about its policy on Saturday, March 14. The last nine days while Johnson wrestled over the decision on when and how to go for lockdown were particularly brutal. By the time the lockdown was announced on Monday, March 23, such large numbers were doubling over such a short period that infections are estimated to have soared to 1.5 million. According to the data, no other large European country allowed infections to sky-rocket to such a high level before finally deciding to go into lockdown. Those 20 days of government delay are the single most important reason why the UK has the second highest number of deaths from the coronavirus in the world.'
 
sphexx said:
But you are wrong about the papers, they are all or nearly all, suffering financially. Even the Guardian which has a very sttong online membership & a trust, is suffering.
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Only one paper I like is the Daily Telegraph. I just think that wait till it`s all sorted then start tearing in to folk who messed up.
 
Retune said:
Excellent piece of investigative journalism in The Sunday Times, Those 20 days of government delay are the single most important reason why the UK has the second highest number of recorded deaths from the coronavirus in the world.'
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Fixed it for you and them.
You're welcome.
 
sphexx said:
But you are wrong about the papers, they are all or nearly all, suffering financially. Even the Guardian which has a very sttong online membership & a trust, is suffering.
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You'll have to find another source to quote then won't you.
 
nilagin said:
Those 20 days of government delay are the single most important reason why the UK has the second highest number of recorded deaths from the coronavirus in the world.'
Fixed it for you and them.
You're welcome.
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Glad to see you accept the broader point. I think we're making progress!
 
nilagin said:
You have been able to do that since last week, but if your parents are in an at risk group due to health and or age, you shouldn't enter their home.
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You cant - you are not allowed to enter a home of a relative unless to care. I am low risk, as it my mate, but we could only meet outside at 2m
 
Retune said:
Glad to see you accept the broader point. I think we're making progress!
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What broader point? It's all ifs and maybes, a point some of you find hard to grasp. When you and the media accept that, then we can make progress, until then you will continue to go round and round in your never ending circles.
 
cambsno said:
You cant - you are not allowed to enter a home of a relative unless to care. I am low risk, as it my mate, but we could only meet outside at 2m
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I am well aware, I was making the point that since last week his daughter could indeed meet up with her grandparents since last week, but because they are likely to be over 70 and or have health issues, it would have to be at their house as they shouldn't be going out. So long as his daughter remains outside and at least 6ft away and the grandparents remain inside, it is permissable
 
nilagin said:
What broader point? It's all ifs and maybes, a point some of you find hard to grasp. When you and the media accept that, then we can make progress, until then you will continue to go round and round in your never ending circles.
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It's a rather straightforward point. The government knew how bad things were predicted to get on 3 March - there would be hundreds of thousands of deaths with their current strategy. The lockdown did not happen until 3 weeks later, when the projected number of infections had increased by more than 100-fold. It only happened after the scientists at Imperial and LSHTM took the initiative and modelled a lockdown scenario they had not be asked to look at. There was no other option at this point because testing capacity had not been ramped up early on when there was still time to stop the outbreak. These failures have resulted in tens of thousands of deaths.
 
Hmmm, well enough to drive the 250 odd miles (twice), but not well enough to look after his child?
 
mex said:
Hmmm, well enough to drive the 250 odd miles (twice), but not well enough to look after his child?
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You're obviously struggling with this, his wife had symptoms, he was concerned he may also get symptoms, so he went to stay near his parents, just in case he should also get symptoms and they would both be incapacitated enough to take care of their son. He got the symptoms whilst staying near his parents. Then they returned after they had recovered.
 
nilagin said:
You're obviously struggling with this, his wife had symptoms, he was concerned he may also get symptoms, so he went to stay near his parents, just in case he should also get symptoms and they would both be incapacitated enough to take care of their son. He got the symptoms whilst staying near his parents. Then they returned after they had recovered.
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Jeez Neil I’m beginning to think you’d defend this government if Boris stood up and said loved ones were going to die, get used to it..... oh wait.
 
Fuji Dave said:
I lost two, yet I can`t be with my daughter but I don`t keep going on about DC. Yes he might of made a mistake, but know one is squeaky clean.
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I am.
 
Covid19 has sadly touched and will, no doubt continue to touch many, possibly even once we have the vaccine, afteral we have a flu vaccine but we still get some seasonal flu years that are worse than others :(

FWIW
The lockdown instructions are (were) quite emphatic but Cummings' action does unfortunately smack of hypocrisy, afteral as an architect of Brexit strategy with ear of Boris Johnson one can only surmise he has been equally influential in Covid19 policy handling.

As such, to act in a way during lockdown that is denied for other members of the public comes across as "do as I say, not as I do".

Furthermore, the one thing that struck me coming from when his presence at the heart of government was revealed as a semi-shadowy figure who apparently dislikes public scrutiny. Was that as an unelected person wielding the level of influence he has, apparently to the extent of manouvering to be in charge of hiring & firing the special advisor's in departments other than that of the PM................he cannot accept that criticism of his actions would not have resulted in calls for censure. That combined with Johnson's hands off approach to many things brings the focus on the PM as the one person who is in a position to so 'put him in his place....' but is unwilling to do so ~ just how many skeletons does BJ have that Cummings knows about ;) :lol:
 
nilagin said:
Unless you are privy to an alternative timeline in a parallel universe, that is just an assumption.
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Sadly, we don't have a parallel universe, but we do have parallel countries with comparably sized populations where different decisions were made more quickly. These countries have avoided tens of thousands of deaths. Some of them have even avoided more than 99% of the deaths we have suffered. We can pretend this is not the case and refuse to learn anything. Turning a blind eye to the telescope is of course a great British tradition. Or we can identify what we did (and are still doing) wrong, and try to do better. Because lives depend on it.
 
Call me a cynical old sod (life lessons) but I wouldn’t be surprised to find the child care ‘excuse’ is a smokescreen to allow Cummings ‘et al’ to leave London and lockdown in County Durham.
 
I have to say, the reporting was done really well. By drip feeding the reporting it led to everyone jumping to Cummings' defence. Just for them all to be made to look like idiots when it turned out he not only broke the lockdown to go and visit beauty spots 30 miles from where he was staying. but has actually been seen in Durham multiple times since his first reappearance in London.

Although I'm sure some on here will claim every single trip was for necessary childcare, or perhaps that they were all day trips with 10 hours of driving each day being done.
 
jakeblu said:
Jeez Neil I’m beginning to think you’d defend this government if Boris stood up and said loved ones were going to die, get used to it..... oh wait.
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You really need to learn the difference between defending and applying reasoning. If people want to keep boring us with the same rhetoric over and over again, I am going to relieve my boredom by pointing out why they are wrong.
You're welcome.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I have to say, the reporting was done really well. By drip feeding the reporting it led to everyone jumping to Cummings' defence. Just for them all to be made to look like idiots when it turned out he not only broke the lockdown to go and visit beauty spots 30 miles from where he was staying. but has actually been seen in Durham multiple times since his first reappearance in London.

Although I'm sure some on here will claim every single trip was for necessary childcare, or perhaps that they were all day trips with 10 hours of driving each day being done.
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The only claim I will make is none of these sightings are actually confirmed. The only "proof" being a conveniently well detailed explanation by a 70yr old witness who, having thought he recognised Cummings, went home, discussed the matter with his wife as he thought Cummings was in London, then did an internet search for Cummings car registration, which his search history will back up.

Make sure you put the curtains straight before you go to your parents today. ;)
 
Retune said:
Sadly, we don't have a parallel universe, but we do have parallel countries with comparably sized populations where different decisions were made more quickly. These countries have avoided tens of thousands of deaths. Some of them have even avoided more than 99% of the deaths we have suffered. We can pretend this is not the case and refuse to learn anything. Turning a blind eye to the telescope is of course a great British tradition. Or we can identify what we did (and are still doing) wrong, and try to do better. Because lives depend on it.
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A similar sized population does not mean everything is comparable. There is age, obesity, health issues. Then there is the way in which deaths are counted.
Germany has a high number of infections, yet deaths are lower, that would suggest that the Germans are more resilient to the virus or they have a more effective means of care for their infected.
I have seen reports that the virus in Europe is no longer the same as that in China etc. If that is true, that could be a factor.
But aside from all that, there is no guarantee that even if we had reacted a fortnight earlier, that tens of thousands of lives wouldn't have been lost, that can only ever be an assumption.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I have to say, the reporting was done really well. By drip feeding the reporting it led to everyone jumping to Cummings' defence. Just for them all to be made to look like idiots when it turned out he not only broke the lockdown to go and visit beauty spots 30 miles from where he was staying. but has actually been seen in Durham multiple times since his first reappearance in London.

Although I'm sure some on here will claim every single trip was for necessary childcare, or perhaps that they were all day trips with 10 hours of driving each day being done.
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HMG have been really inept on this (surprise :)). They have know the media we’re on the case since 10th April because the Guardian asked them about Cummings being in Durham back then. Also note that means the Gaudian & Mirror (and who else?) have had nearly 2 months to investigate it.

Also this “genius” Cummings is on record now saying he doesn't “care what it looks like”! Easy enough to say something more sensible/apologetic but I suppose it shows his contempt for us.
 
" Stay home...... Protect the NHS.....Save lives" - a now vey well known slogan written by Dominic Cummings, maybe he should have added the word 'YOU' at the very beggining.
 
nilagin said:
A similar sized population does not mean everything is comparable. There is age, obesity, health issues. Then there is the way in which deaths are counted.
Germany has a high number of infections, yet deaths are lower, that would suggest that the Germans are more resilient to the virus or they have a more effective means of care for their infected.
I have seen reports that the virus in Europe is no longer the same as that in China etc. If that is true, that could be a factor.
But aside from all that, there is no guarantee that even if we had reacted a fortnight earlier, that tens of thousands of lives wouldn't have been lost, that can only ever be an assumption.
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“that can only ever be an assumption calculation“, there fixed that for you :).
 
Nicked from elsewhere:

"Asking Boris Johnson to sack Dominic Cummings is a bit like asking Emu to sack Rod Hull".
 
sphexx said:
Also this “genius” Cummings is on record now saying he doesn't “care what it looks like”! Easy enough to say something more sensible/apologetic but I suppose it shows his contempt for us.
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Probably find the majority of people in the UK, could give a toss about it either. Just the curtain twitchers.
On the subject of curtain twitchers, if the Gaurdian's financial sufferings take a turn for the worse, you may be able to get your daily dose from Hello Magazine, if they survive of course. ;)
 
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