The virus. PPE. Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
MatBin said:
Currently at about 8% of known cases, I don't see that as relatively low, we were told a short while ago it was likely to be 1-2%, assuming the numbers of infected people are wrong we'd need between 1 and 8 times as many people infected as we are currently showing, is that likely? Having said that, it's 0.003% of UK population.
Click to expand...

We are only testing people in hospital. So our sample size cannot be compared to say Germany who are testing anyone. Our death rate looks higher because of that.

Iirc the average age of Germans infected is much lower than here or Italy which could also part explain the variance.

Also I don’t think the death rate tells the whole story even with the above. Harsh it sounds but many of the deaths have been for people with health issues or people over 80. More data needs to be available around age groups and seriousness of conditions to get more insight. Maybe our population is older and in worse health than Germany which could also explain the higher death rates.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I've just discovered TWiV (The Week in Virology) podcast: http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/

Talk 595 discusses a bunch of stuff with US medic Daniel Griffin including what may be a treatment to prevent catastrophic respiratory failure. It seems that the immune system doesn't manage the change very well between cell-mediated and antibody response, and rather than ramping down the neutrophils and increasing lymphocyte numbers, the opposite happens with a variety of 'cytokine storm' and excess production of certain interleukins that stimulate the neutrophil response. They tried an experimental treatment using an anti-IL-6 monoclonal antibody on a patient in the end stages of failure, and at the time of the interview the patient appeared to be recovering. It's unlikely this will be a universal life-saver, but it might save some individuals without otherwise life-threatening conditions and helps make sense of why an otherwise relatively unexciting virus is proving a little lethal.

They also mentioned about a hydroxychloroquine trial that doesn't appear to have gone well.

It's an interesting listen to an extent, but might be a bit technical for some. Also quite long at 117 min.
Click to expand...

Haven't caught up with this episode yet, but TWiV in general is excellent. A virologist colleague introduced it to me a while ago, but it's taken SARS-CoV-2 to make me an avid listener! I strongly recommend the March 15 and March 26 episodes with Ralph Baric and Mark Denison (both coronavirus experts), which are especially informative.
 
Last edited:
AndrewFlannigan said:
The important thing I take from the story so far is how very lucky the British have been. Despite gross mismanagement by the current and previous governments the death toll has thus far been relatively low. I have no idea whether this low level can be maintained but the one thing I am certain of is that no good outcome will come from having the current incompetents running our government.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid if you look at the trend the current death toll is far from reassuring.
uk_deaths.jpg
 
simon ess said:
With the money you spend on supplements, couldn't you just eat properly?
Click to expand...
Eating 1/2hr before bed isn't advisable, infact I don't eat after 6:30 in the evening and I do eat properly thank you.
 
Mr Johnson, who is self-isolating in Downing Street after contracting the virus himself, has faced widespread criticism over his government's testing strategy.

In a video message on Twitter on Wednesday evening, he said: "I want to say a special word about testing, because it is so important, and as I have said for weeks and weeks, this is the way through."

It this the same PM who told us about drive through testing stations, which then disappeared; that we were going to have 10,000 tests a day but that fell by the wayside and is the leader of the government who couldn't get the actual figure correct?

It beggars belief that he can come out with " .... as I have said for weeks and weeks, ...". It is like having our own home grown Donald Trump.


Dave
 
Cats! Even if this report is not true, it’s going to cause problems :(

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...&CMP=GTAU_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS

Edit to add: From the link “Prof Eric Fèvre, chair of veterinary infectious diseases at the University of Liverpool, said: “People should take usual precautions of hand washing when handling their pets, and avoid overly intimate contact”. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
I‘ve often had a suspicion that many vets don’t have dogs or cats.
 
Last edited:
MatBin said:
Nice, so having managed to get ourselves infected we now decide to experiment with infecting other innocent creatures, will we never learn we don't have a right to regard everything on this planet as ours to what we will.
Click to expand...
Ah, you’re straying onto religious territory there :).
 
sphexx said:
Cats! Even if this report is not true, it’s going to cause problems :(

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...&CMP=GTAU_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS

Edit to add: From the link “Prof Eric Fèvre, chair of veterinary infectious diseases at the University of Liverpool, said: “People should take usual precautions of hand washing when handling their pets, and avoid overly intimate contact”. :LOL::LOL::LOL:
I‘ve often had a suspicion that many vets don’t have dogs or cats.
Click to expand...
Even though it says that people are not likely to catch the virus from their cat it could lead to stupid people dumping their pets I really hope this doesn’t happen
 
MatBin said:
Moral rather than religious I should have thought.
Click to expand...
I guess you know even less about religious teachings the
an me :), which probably means you are C of E :)
 
Donnie said:
Excellent to hear the 30,000 ventilators are on their way from the weekend

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1385044678350154

Sorry what? 30? Thirty? :oops: :$:oops: :$
Click to expand...
Well seeing as only 8k were ordered from abroad and the UK manufacturers were only capable of building 100's/month and will now be able to ramp up to 1000's per month because of the extra manufacturing due to start this week, 30k in one week is just a little bit unrealistic.
 
nilagin said:
Well seeing as only 8k were ordered from abroad and the UK manufacturers were only capable of building 100's/month and will now be able to ramp up to 1000's per month because of the extra manufacturing due to start this week, 30k in one week is just a little bit unrealistic.
Click to expand...

Yeah, to be fair I didn't say anything about 30K in one week though?

KitsuneAndy said:
So the EU ventilator scheme, that we missed the deadline for, because we weren't in the EU/Didn't get the email/didn't need them*

*pick your lie

Turns out we had representatives in four of the procurement meetings. So we can add another lie to the list...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...o-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials
Click to expand...
 
LCPete said:
Even though it says that people are not likely to catch the virus from their cat
Click to expand...
What about if you eat them? I can remember back in the 80's, many takeaways in this country caught with cat and dog bodies hanging up in their kitchens.
 
cambsno said:
We are only testing people in hospital. So our sample size cannot be compared to say Germany who are testing anyone. Our death rate looks higher because of that.
Click to expand...
The tally of dead in France only contains those people who died in hospital. One region (Grand Est) has had 570 deaths in old people's homes and many of these will be added to the national total in the future.

The current statistics provide some figures for comparison but we'll need to wait for some commonality of reporting before we can see how it all panned out.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
So the EU ventilator scheme, that we missed the deadline for, because we weren't in the EU/Didn't get the email/didn't need them*

*pick your lie

Turns out we had representatives in four of the procurement meetings. So we can add another lie to the list...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...o-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials
Click to expand...

One report said that the request to join had sat in a junior officials in tray unnoticed until it was too late. We'll probably never get the truth and even if we've already had it a large section of society wont accept anything less than the fact that Boris got the email, wiped his backside on it and threw it away in a mad Brexit moment.

We are where we are and I do wonder what's to be gained by the constant scape goat hunting* and foil hat conspiracy theories unless "we" want to believe the various theories and want to find someone suitably tory to hang draw and quarter in public. And my opinion on this would be the same if comrade Corbyn was the one in the self isolated hot seat.

*pick the guy/gal you want to crucify over this and the family you want to smash.
 
Just been watching the morning news and there was a story about the need for a Minister for testing and the name in the frame is Jeremy Hunt, is this the same Jeremy Hunt who presided over some of the most damaging cutbacks to the NHS severely damaging their ability to cope even in normal times.
 
There was a piece on the radio this morning about 3 million (?) tests which the UK had bought which haven't been released yet as they're in testing in the UK. They said that the Chinese manufacturers can self certificate which has speeded up the process over there. In the UK that doesn't seem to be the case so tests and indeed ventilators seem to be delayed whilst they await UK certification. I believe that the process is quicker in Germany too as they lack a layer which we have and thus have a speedier process.

I do see the need to ensure that all this stuff works and I do appreciate that a bad test may be worse than no test but if there is any block in the system and if things could be speeded up someone needs to take a huge plunger to this and get any blockage moving.

Once this is over I think we also need to look at what's happened and how we can do better next time as sadly there may be a next time. If we need new hospitals sitting almost empty (in normal times) with a ventilator at every bad and boxes of spare ppe in every cupboard then so be it but I think we also need to take a long hard and honest look at how tests and equipment can be introduced into the system quicker when need be.
 
Last edited:
woof woof said:
One report said that the request to join had sat in a junior officials in tray unnoticed until it was too late. We'll probably never get the truth and even if we've already had it a large section of society wont accept anything less than the fact that Boris got the email, wiped his backside on it and threw it away in a mad Brexit moment.

We are where we are and I do wonder what's to be gained by the constant scape goat hunting* and foil hat conspiracy theories unless "we" want to believe the various theories and want to find someone suitably tory to hang draw and quarter in public. And my opinion on this would be the same if comrade Corbyn was the one in the self isolated hot seat.

*pick the guy/gal you want to crucify over this and the family you want to smash.
Click to expand...

That's all very well, but this is actually verifiable ie minutes of the meetings show the presence of british representatives be it junior ministers or whatever. Very different from vague reports of in tray requests etc or deflection of said facts by bringing up Brexit which none of us did?
 
Uncle Fester said:
I very rarely agree with anything you post, but this time I think you are correct. My incredibly limited comprehension of nutrition, medication ect. leads me to understand that a lot of the current interest in Chloroquine relates to it’s ability to permit greater absorption of Zinc within our cells. Zinc is noted for its anti-viral properties.

My recent personal experiences of diet have made it clear to me what a profound effect the food we consume has on our health and wellbeing. I suspect that COVID-19 will claim many more lives, than otherwise would have been the case, simply because of our modern nutritionally deficient diets.
Click to expand...
There no evidence that Zinc is effective against the Covid-19. It may have some benefit with colds in helping to reduce the duration of symptoms but it also has some problematic side effects in that it can deplete the immune system, if taken in excess. If a simply zinc lozenge could solve all our problems or at least make them manageable, I'm sure governements around the world would be dispensing them forthwith,
 
Donnie said:
That's all very well, but this is actually verifiable ie minutes of the meetings show the presence of british representatives be it junior ministers or whatever. Very different from vague reports of in tray requests etc or deflection of said facts by bringing up Brexit which none of us did?
Click to expand...

You missed my point so I'll be direct and crystal clear.

I detest the on line mob mentality and blame culture when none of us know what actually happened and some of us will never believe any truth they're told.

Blame games like this have lead to ruined lives and suicides in the past and I can see it happening again. The blame game also leads to cover ups and dishonesty and IMO we can do without all of this.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ection-chief-to-sharpen-coronavirus-messaging

Over the coming days/weeks/months we are going to hear :

The people who failed to practice social distancing.

The people who hoarded.

The people who didn’t listen to the government.

The people who didn’t listen to the science.

The people. Those selfish people. Look at them in their parks.

...and not a lot about the lack of PPE for front line workers or the unbelievable cock-up that was ventilators or herd immunity or too slow reacting or not doing anyhting........
 
woof woof said:
The blame game also leads to cover ups and dishonesty and IMO we can do without all of this.
Click to expand...
I disagree because I think you are placing the cart before the horse. What you call "the blame game" is a natural reaction to the tendency of politicians to lie whenever their incompetence has led to harm.
 
Last edited:
I came across this video. There are plenty of off-the-wall theories around and YouTube clips which are mainly click-bait as one person in the comments section states but this chap seems to have done some homework on it . I read all the comments too and was astounded to read in one of them..not far from the top, that the research lab sell the bats they‘ve used to the nearby wet market ..surely not ?

What does seem to be the case is that this virus and the spread of it was known about by the Chinese authorities for a good while longer than was first admitted.

Is this just another misleading suggestion ?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU
 
jakeblu said:
There no evidence that Zinc is effective against the Covid-19. It may have some benefit with colds in helping to reduce the duration of symptoms but it also has some problematic side effects in that it can deplete the immune system, if taken in excess. If a simply zinc lozenge could solve all our problems or at least make them manageable, I'm sure governements around the world would be dispensing them forthwith,
Click to expand...


As I said my comprehension of this subject is incredibly limited and if I’m wrong, I’m happy to hold my hands up and say so.

My post was based on reading articles such as this:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_a_combo_of_chloroquine_and_Zinc_a_cure_for_coronavirus


‘Recent studies from Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation, University of Queensland Centre for Clinical Research, and Qingdao Municipal Hospital identified that Chloroquine phosphate, a drug used for the treatment of malaria, chikungunya fever, Zika virus, and HIV, is shown to be effective against COVID-19”

And

“Several studies have reported that zinc has a broad-spectrum antiviral activity against a variety of viruses. Increased intracellular Zinc concentrations inhibit RNA-dependent RNA polymerases and other proteins essential for the completion of different phases of the virus life cycle. Further, zinc also helps to maintain robust immune responses by producing cytokine and by modulation of immune cell activity. Both the drugs are FDA approved and are readily available.‘
 
JohnC6 said:
Is this just another misleading suggestion ?
Click to expand...
Might be or might not be. Without a great deal more information we have no way of telling.
 
woof woof said:
You missed my point so I'll be direct and crystal clear.

I detest the on line mob mentality and blame culture when none of us know what actually happened and some of us will never believe any truth they're told.

Blame games like this have lead to ruined lives and suicides in the past and I can see it happening again. The blame game also leads to cover ups and dishonesty and IMO we can do without all of this.
Click to expand...

Its funny you talk about none of us knowing whats actually happened when in fact there are very clear facts for a lot of what has happened and what is happening. Again, minutes of the meetings in the guardian article, the evidence of pandemic planning in 2016 which was such a spectacular failure that the government buried the results and did nothing about it etc etc etc.

As well as wrapping your post in pro boris / tory rhetoric, brexit and doubt you have now added a bow of dissuasion by talk of suicide and ruined lives. :cautious:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks
 
A
sphexx said:
I guess you know even less about religious teachings the
an me :), which probably means you are C of E :)
Click to expand...
Atheist actually.
 
jeff127 said:
What do people here make of this article? Could make for interesting reading
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/31/...applaud-the-nhs-they-ideologically-oppose-it/
Click to expand...

In line with keeping factual, an opinion piece in an unknown publication on the net thats clearly there as an anti Tory machine, I gave it exactly what I deserved and ignored it. THIS is the kind of crap that woof woof would be quite right in attacking and I would join him in that frankly despite my own anti tory feelings. But facts trump all politics in my view.
 
nilagin said:
What about if you eat them? I can remember back in the 80's, many takeaways in this country caught with cat and dog bodies hanging up in their kitchens.
Click to expand...
Don’t remember dogs but I remember cats being at least alleged to be sold/served as rabbits and much discussion of how to spot them — kidney position I think was the favourite, so I presume they were headless. I notice rabbits are sold headless these days whereas they always came with heads in my youth — when I was an infant my grandmother used to insist on my eating the brains on the grounds it would make me brainy! :)
 
MatBin said:
Atheist actually.
Click to expand...
I prefer to be described as an agnostic. Just think how annoying it would be to an atheist if one day they found out that god believes in them! :wideyed: :naughty:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top