The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Tringa said:
, but also that they will review the list as necessary.

I don't know why it is still OK to go and get takeaway food. Is the provison of takeaway food essential? Are there that many people who eat only takeaways?

Dave
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The list and the measures will be reviewed in three weeks, and part of the argument for the takeaways was obviously to provide food for delivery drivers etc who are still out there keeping supplies moving, as delivery drivers are specifically mentioned in the guidance on takeaways.
 
nilagin said:
If anyone still isn't clear on social distancing, the government has hired a taskforce to explain it. View attachment 272806
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Forgot to add, this taskforce have also been asked to provide back up to the police.
If people still don't follow the rules, they have been ordered to sh!t to kill. ;)
 
KitsuneAndy said:
That's not what he said at all...

If you can do your work while practicing social distancing, and you don't work in a non essential *shop* then you can go to work as normal.
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I didn't say he did, notice the question mark after my 'question' ?

So I'm guessing we're going to see similar pictures on the tube this morning.
 
I've noticed that age is no longer a factor for isolation/shielding. Now the over 70's are asked to practice good social distancing, like everybody else. Which means that. my 81 year old MiL who has hardly any bowel, one breast one less lymph node and stage 4 kidney disease will not get the support she needs to stay safe.
 
myotis said:
The list and the measures will be reviewed in three weeks, and part of the argument for the takeaways was obviously to provide food for delivery drivers etc who are still out there keeping supplies moving, as delivery drivers are specifically mentioned in the guidance on takeaways.
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Is the idea that takeaways stay open but only for the delivery of food? That I can understand as the delivery of takeaway food is not that different to the delivery of food from supermarkets. However, if takeaways are allowed to stay open for people to go and get food themselves that looks like a potential source of spreading the virus.

Dave
 
jakeblu said:
I've noticed that age is no longer a factor for isolation/shielding. Now the over 70's are asked to practice good social distancing, like everybody else. Which means that. my 81 year old MiL who has hardly any bowel, one breast one less lymph node and stage 4 kidney disease will not get the support she needs to stay safe.
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I don't follow, why should that change the support she needs?
 
nilagin said:
I don't follow, why should that change the support she needs?
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Those who are shielded are offered more support, in that the Local Authority ensures they have food, medicines etc without having to go out.
 
Just a thought - got a Tesco delivery coming today should we all be wiping down the packages before we put them away seems a good idea as who knows who has touched or coughed on them.
Rob.
 
Tringa said:
Is the idea that takeaways stay open but only for the delivery of food? That I can understand as the delivery of takeaway food is not that different to the delivery of food from supermarkets. However, if takeaways are allowed to stay open for people to go and get food themselves that looks like a potential source of spreading the virus.

Dave
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Nope, the only restriction is not eating/drinking on the premises. Though re-reading it, I see my interpretation about delivery drivers was probably wrong as It could easily just refer to the drivers delivering food from the takeway.

"This means people can continue to enter premises to access takeaway services, including delivery drivers. Planning regulation will be changed to enable restaurants, cafes and pubs which do not currently offer delivery and hot food takeaway to do so. This will be clearly communicated by the government when in effect. People must not consumer food or drinks on site at restaurants, cafes or pubs whilst waiting for takeaway food,"

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

My immediate rationalisation for this was the possible value of takeways for delivery drivers, medical staff coming off shift, emergency services out unblocking sewerage pipes etc who might struggle to easily get food, plus the home delivery of food to vulnerable groups.

It;s a difficult balance :-(
 
GyRob said:
Just a thought - got a Tesco delivery coming today should we all be wiping down the packages before we put them away seems a good idea as who knows who has touched or coughed on them.
Rob.
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It’s a difficult one isn’t it. Probably impossible to wipe everything down, take ton of alcohol. Maybe leave it unpacked somewhere safe for a day or so? Maybe take out what you need and wipe down. Frozen food? I don't have an answer but would be interested if someone has!
 
sphexx said:
It’s a difficult one isn’t it. Probably impossible to wipe everything down, take ton of alcohol. Maybe leave it unpacked somewhere safe for a day or so? Maybe take out what you need and wipe down. Frozen food? I don't have an answer but would be interested if someone has!
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We leave our shopping in the garage for 48 hours.
 
GyRob said:
Just a thought - got a Tesco delivery coming today should we all be wiping down the packages before we put them away seems a good idea as who knows who has touched or coughed on them.
Rob.
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Maybe worthwhile reposting this on virus life outside a host, nothing can be taken as absolute of course, but it gives some idea:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v2

Aerosol and surface stability of HCoV-19 (SARS-CoV-2) compared to SARS-CoV-1


'HCoV-19 remained viable in aerosols throughout the duration of our experiment (3 hours) … HCoV-19 was most stable on plastic and stainless steel and viable virus could be detected up to 72 hours post application … though the virus titer was greatly reduced … No viable virus could be measured after 4 hours on copper … or after 24 hours on cardboard. … Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of HCoV-19 are plausible, as the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for multiple hours and on surfaces up to days.'
 
Mr Gove also addressed the question of whether people could visit elderly parents.
"The ideal thing to do is to maintain contact through social media. You can, of course, drop off items or groceries or other items that they request or need - if they're not in a position themselves to take a journey outside in order to shop."
He adds that the UK is rolling out a "network of support" for the most vulnerable.
 
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Is there a way of reporting a business that 'forces' its employees to turn into work ,even thought they are in no way an essential service? I have just spoken via Skype to a friend, his daughter works as a cleaner for a small company, they clean people's houses and do their ironing, she said that the owner has told them that she has "spoken to a government official'' to clarrify it!! IIt's staggering that a boss is going to put her profit before the health and welfare of her employee's.
 
mex said:
Is there a way of reporting a business that 'forces' its employees to turn into work ,even thought they are in no way an essential service? I have just spoken via Skype to a friend, his daughter works as a cleaner for a small company, they clean people's houses and do their ironing, she said that the owner has told them that she has "spoken to a government official'' to clarrify it!! IIt's staggering that a boss is going to put her profit before the health and welfare of her employee's.
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I would suspect the owner is lying.
 
Just a thought. Do you think there is any benefit in keeping a bowl if warm water with a decent squirt of washing up liquid in it to clean your hands. Would it be effective or not?
 
jakeblu said:
Those who are shielded are offered more support, in that the Local Authority ensures they have food, medicines etc without having to go out.
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So surely your MiL will continue to get the same support, not less.
 
sphexx said:
It’s a difficult one isn’t it. Probably impossible to wipe everything down, take ton of alcohol. Maybe leave it unpacked somewhere safe for a day or so? Maybe take out what you need and wipe down. Frozen food? I don't have an answer but would be interested if someone has!
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We thought about this too but don't have an answer, other than washing our hands after putting the groceries away.

Dave
 
myotis said:
Nope, the only restriction is not eating/drinking on the premises. Though re-reading it, I see my interpretation about delivery drivers was probably wrong as It could easily just refer to the drivers delivering food from the takeway.

"This means people can continue to enter premises to access takeaway services, including delivery drivers. Planning regulation will be changed to enable restaurants, cafes and pubs which do not currently offer delivery and hot food takeaway to do so. This will be clearly communicated by the government when in effect. People must not consumer food or drinks on site at restaurants, cafes or pubs whilst waiting for takeaway food,"

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

My immediate rationalisation for this was the possible value of takeways for delivery drivers, medical staff coming off shift, emergency services out unblocking sewerage pipes etc who might struggle to easily get food, plus the home delivery of food to vulnerable groups.

It;s a difficult balance :-(
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I'd not thought about the groups you mentioned; good point. Perhaps my concern over the average bod going into takeaways is unfounded. I guess most people buying a takeaway in the shop would be those who had been in the pub, cinema etc, and as those are closed, face to face takeaway buying will probably be very low now.

Dave
 
nilagin said:
So surely your MiL will continue to get the same support, not less.
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No, those who are shielded get additional support to ensure they do not leave home. So, in the likelihood that she can't get a online shopping slot, which is very likely, and the chemist can't deliver her medicines of which theres is already talk of , then the chances are she will have to leave home to do so. That puts her at a greater risk than if she had been shielded.
 
mex said:
Is there a way of reporting a business that 'forces' its employees to turn into work ,even thought they are in no way an essential service? I have just spoken via Skype to a friend, his daughter works as a cleaner for a small company, they clean people's houses and do their ironing, she said that the owner has told them that she has "spoken to a government official'' to clarrify it!! IIt's staggering that a boss is going to put her profit before the health and welfare of her employee's.
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It isn't a complete lockdown. It's essential businesses or those unable to work from home.
Anyone unable to work from home can still work. I can't work from home, my employer has taken measures to reduce the workforce to a minimum and easy for everyone else to self isolate, so I am still at work.
If someone is cleaning anothers home, I would assume the cleaner will be alone as the client will be at work, if the client isn't at work, they won't be requiring a cleaner anyway.
 
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jakeblu said:
No, those who are shielded get additional support to ensure they do not leave home. So, in the likelihood that she can't get a online shopping slot, which is very likely, and the chemist can't deliver her medicines of which theres is already talk of , then the chances are she will have to leave home to do so. That puts her at a greater risk than if she had been shielded.
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With the list of medical things you listed, surely she is on the shielded list.
 
nilagin said:
It isn't a complete lockdown. It's essential businesses or those unable to work from home.
Anyone unable to work from home can still work. I can't work from home, my employer has taken measures to reduce the workforce to a minimum and easy for everyone else to self isolate, so I am still at work.
If someone is cleaning anothers home, I would assume the cleaner will be alone as the client will be at work, if the client isn't at work, they won't be requiring a cleaner anyway.
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A few of my older housebound customers have a cleaner pop in for a couple of hours.
 
Cockney said:
A few of my older housebound customers have a cleaner pop in for a couple of hours.
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They only have to observe the 2m rule whilst carrying out the cleaning and they would be fine, it's no different to carers visiting really, other than a carer will likely have to make physical contact.
 
nilagin said:
With the list of medical things you listed, surely she is on the shielded list.
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I would have thought so, but she's not received confirmation from the NHS, so at this moment in time, no!
 
Cockney said:
Why are all building sites ok?
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If people don't have to work in close proximity, why shouldn't they be. It would be advisable that they all travel independently though rather than all together in a builders van.
Just last week, I saw around half a dozen workmen doing some roadworks, they all had their own van parked at the side of the road, so they didn't have to travel in the confines of a van with someone else.
 
jakeblu said:
I would have thought so, but she's not received confirmation from the NHS, so at this moment in time, no!
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I would be chasing them up. Get her doctor in on it if necessary.
 
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