The virus. PPE. Part 1

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simon ess said:
If that's really true, and it might be to some extent, we really are f***ed.
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I think so, to an extent. The next week or two may provide a clearer picture. I fully expect U turns and folds.
 
DK602 said:
A bit like the barking mad professor John Ashton on Question Time - Fiona Bruce should have expelled him TBH
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I didn't see that. Got time for a short sharp update for me?
 
simon ess said:
Downtown Seoul and downtown Hackney are very different culturally, wouldn't you say?
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This!

We are not comparing Like with Like across the world or even Europe so comparisons with other Countries is pointless IMO.
 
Here is a brief summary of the exchange on QT:

The Chief Secretary to the Treasury was appearing on Thursday night’s BBC Question Time from West Bromwich. He was joined on the panel by Labour MP Louise Haigh, Pete Wishart from the SNP, the managing director of Iceland Foods, Richard Walker and Professor John Ashton. Professor Ashton, a former director of public health in the north west, launched an astonishing attack on the Prime Minister, saying that he had lost control of the crisis.

He described the Government’s approach as “paternalistic” and “old fashioned” and of being complacent

The Professor, who has lectured on public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, was incredulous that the Government allowed the Champion’s League football game between Liverpool and Atletico Madrid to go ahead on Wednesday night.

He pointed out that Madrid was in the midst of a serious outbreak and that 3,0000 of their fans attended the match, potentially bringing the virus with them.

The Professor also criticised the decision to not trace all those people who had travelled to Italy.



However, Mr Barclay countered that the Prime Minister’s strategy was based on the best scientific advice available.

The MP for North East Cambridgeshire said: “There’s an agreed position on the science and it is the science, it is the view of our top scientists across all four countries of the UK that is driving the position.

“And therefore respectfully to John, he is at odds with the leading scientists of the UK.”

Mr Barclay called for unity and said that coronavirus epidemic should not be politicised

He explained: “We are working across the UK, this is above politics.

“This is something that we need to come together. We all have a concern for our constituents, but I come back to this point.

“It’s what expert advice says, it’s what the facts say and it’s what the science says that is absolutely crucial here.”

Viewers appeared to side with the Tory minister, as they took to twitter to criticise Professor Ashton for fear mongering and trying to score cheap political points

One wrote: “Ashton is a Labour member and campaigner. Shame QT failed to mention that.

“Now he’s trying to make a political point out of the pandemic.”

Another commented: “Your appearance on BBCQT was extremely unprofessional and irresponsible[/QUOTE}
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Bobsyeruncle said:
How do we know they aren't?
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When Politicians from all sides are stating that the Government is following the best medical advice they have then I think we can be fairly satisifed they are - certainly alot more satisfied that taking 'the truth' from t***ter?
 
DK602 said:
Well it won't!

We have followed a 'route' what would have happened following a different route is just pure speculation!
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The experts and the government are following what they "believe" to be the best course of action.
They don't actually know 100% if what they are doing is going to work.
We are taking a different approach to most other countries, I just hope their experts are wrong and ours are right.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Does the virus recognise those differences?
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I don't know what I'm talking about so don't shoot me.... but maybe... and for speculation only...

I'd imagine that age demographics and health matter and susceptibility to serious infection could I suppose be affected not just by age and known health conditions such as diabetes or heart conditions but also by wealth, living conditions, nutrition and diet and by social practices and factors and these could vary from country to country or maybe even region to region.

I used to date a really good economist, so good in fact that people used to fly her around the world to do her thing, and the detail she went into was incredible and I do hope that the experts the government are taking advice from go into that sort of level of research and preparation before giving their advice.
 
DK602 said:
When Politicians from all sides are stating that the Government is following the best medical advice they have then I think we can be fairly satisifed they are - certainly alot more satisfied that taking 'the truth' from t***ter?
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I'm not saying we should be listening to Twitter.
There could be a lot more going on than the politicians are letting on.
We don't know for sure
 
woof woof said:
I don't know what I'm talking about so don't shoot me.... but maybe... and for speculation only...

I'd imagine that age demographics and health matter and susceptibility to serious infection could I suppose be affected not just by age and known health conditions such as diabetes or heart conditions but also by wealth, living conditions, nutrition and diet and by social practices and factors and these could vary from country to country or maybe even region to region.

I used to date a really good economist, so good in fact that people used to fly her around the world to do her thing, and the detail she went into was incredible and I do hope that the experts the government are taking advice from go into that sort of level of research and preparation before giving their advice.
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Well Scotland is f***ed then.
We're the poor man of Europe, or so they keep telling us.
 
You got to ask yourself, another country clearly had a lid on this, why are we not following their lead?

one country experienced SARS, has a plan, they are implementing their plan, it is working.

Brits go, narrrrrrrrh, keep calm and carry on, but remember to wash your hands though.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Well Scotland is f***ed then.
We're the poor man of Europe, or so they keep telling us.
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I'm sure Scotland looks good compared to the Redcar / Middlesbrough area where I live :D

I did read on the Beeb somewhere that one of the reasons Italy has had a relatively high death rate is that they have more susceptible older people.

If that's true it could count against the idea of looking at a league table and doing whatever countries with the fewest deaths is doing as it may not be as simple as that. For all I know the country with the fewest deaths could be hiding/missing some figures or they may just have a younger and less susceptible demographic.

Anyway. Suspicious and questioning though I am I do hope that the government has really good advisors who've done their homework and suggested the best things to do, and that the government does them and resists the tidal wave that may come from twitter, facebook and daytime TV.
 
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Our old people will be fine, apparently they are the loneliest in Europe as their families largely ignore them, except perhaps in Wales. They rarely see or have any contact/human interaction for weeks on end.
On a more serious note, if that finding is true we will hopefully have a lower mortality rate.
 
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MatBin said:
Our old people will be fine, apparently they are the loneliest in Europe as their families largely ignore them, except perhaps in Wales.
On a more serious note, if that finding is true we will hopefully have a lower mortality rate.
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We can all do our bit to remedy that Matt.
 
woof woof said:
I'm sure Scotland looks good compared to the Redcar / Middlesbrough area where I live :D

I did read on the Beeb somewhere that one of the reasons Italy has had a relatively high death rate is that they have more susceptible older people.

If that's true it could count against the idea of looking at a league table and doing whatever countries with the fewest deaths is doing as it may not be as simple as that. For all I know the country with the fewest deaths could be hiding/missing some figures or they may just have a younger and less susceptible demographic.
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That could all be true, and I don't argue against that. I know its not simple.
I also know its unprecedented, and some countries will handle it better than others.
I just hope we're one of them, but I'm not convinced.
That is just my opinion, the same as any one elses opinion is purely that, their opinion.
Even the experts will be sitting in meetings saying...."in my opinion"....their opinion will be a lot more professionally based than any of ours, but the experts don't always get it right.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
That could all be true, and I don't argue against that. I know its not simple.
I also know its unprecedented, and some countries will ha Dale it better than others.
I just home we're one of them, but I'm not convinced.
That is just my opinion, the same as any one elses opinion is purely that, their opinion.
Even the experts will be sitting in meetings saying...."in my opinion"....they're opinion will be a lot more professionally based than any of hours, but the experts don't always get it right.
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Yup.
 
woof woof said:
We can all do our bit to remedy that Matt.
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We see our Dad twice a week, minimum and speak to him virtually every day. My conscience is pretty much ok these days. Learnt the hard way regarding my Mum.
 
MatBin said:
We see our Dad twice a week, minimum and speak to him virtually every day. My conscience is pretty much ok these days. Learnt the hard way regarding my Mum.
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My mother in law is 80.
She's a social animal and doesn't stay in.
She also has respiratory issues. The doctors, the hospital and even the chemists have all said she should take it easy and stay in more for a bit, but she won't listen.
I genuinely fear she will become a coronavirus victim...
 
You could draw from those stats that testing is pretty much pointles as Italy is in a far worse death rate than the UK, figures mean nothing or can mean something, depends on how you interpret them.
 
MatBin said:
You could draw from those stats that testing is pretty much pointles as Italy is in a far worse death rate than the UK, figures mean nothing or can mean something, depends on how you interpret them.
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Or you could argue they need to keep testing so they can identify who genuinely has the virus, and can be treated accordingly.
Our level of testing will increase significantly I think when the hospitalisations and fatalities increase dramatically.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
My mother in law is 80.
She's a social animal and doesn't stay in.
She also has respiratory issues. The doctors, the hospital and even the chemists have all said she should take it easy and stay in more for a bit, but she won't listen.
I genuinely fear she will become a coronavirus victim...
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As sad as her demise would be, she wants to live her life the way she wants to live it and not be frightened by a possible infection, I applaud her attitude, who knows she might avoid this and live to be a 100.
 
cambsno said:
Yes. Old and unhealthy population will fare worse than a younger healthier one.
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That is obvious.
Can you tell me how UK, France, Germany and Italy differ in the levels of old and unhealthy among the population? Genuine question.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Or you could argue they need to keep testing so they can identify who genuinely has the virus, and can be treated accordingly.
Our level of testing will increase significantly I think when the hospitalisations and fatalities increase dramatically.
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Tests need to be carried out on those that present with symptoms, as opposed to those that just demand a test, we have already witnessed greed in the UK and it's not a pretty sight.
 
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