The tories V the pensioners

[rjbell]

But most cannot. Most young people spend far too much on alcohol, nights out and designer clothes etc.

That's a brilliant generalisations.

Why should pensioner's get a winter fuel allowance most will spend it all on Murray mints.

 

[nilagin]

Thats an extreme example for sure, and the market is as you describe. But £45 p/w is just as extreme. A quick glance on spareroom.co.uk shows you'd expect to pay between £600-£900 per month for a room in Brixton today. Depending on proximity to the tube and quality of the room

http://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/london/brixton

Why would anyone want to pay that for a room. You can rent a 2 bedroom flat in Upminster for £850/month. Only 20 minutes from Fenchurch Street.

 

[boyfalldown]

Why would anyone want to pay that for a room. You can rent a 2 bedroom flat in Upminster for £850/month. Only 20 minutes from Fenchurch Street.

Regardless of your thoughts. That's the way it is.

 

[nilagin]

It's no surprise therefore that they propose these changes. More pensioners will struggle, and no doubt it will lead to deaths if the heating allowance is taken away, which again means the govt will save money! All these benefits should be related to earnings ... I mean, whats the benefit of paying winter fuel allowance / chils benefit to a millionare!?

.

Pensioners often get a bad press. Lets not forget they have gone through life paying into the system with expectations. Pensions and most pensioner benefits are not hand outs. They are what people are entitled to for what they have paid in.

Assuming those millionaires have worked to make their wealth why question the fact they get those benefits, especially as they will likely have paid more tax and national insurance than your average pensioner.

 

[nilagin]

Regardless of your thoughts. That's the way it is.

Most of the flats in Upminster are in the region of £1100 per calendar month and within 5 minutes walk from the station, some less than a minute. so get a flat mate and share the cost.
My point is if you are short on wages it's better to pay around £550 per month in rent plus train fare (£225 per month) rather than £900 for just a room. Then your money will go further.

 

[boyfalldown]

Most of the flats in Upminster are in the region of £1100 per calendar month and within 5 minutes walk from the station, some less than a minute. so get a flat mate and share the cost.
My point is if you are short on wages it's better to pay around £550 per month in rent plus train fare (£225 per month) rather than £900 for just a room. Then your money will go further.

I got your point. Its you'd managed to follow the thread mine was simply a room for £45 per week is really rather rare in Brixton. I'm sure you knew that having read the whole thing?

Having read it, I'm sure you have a good idea why rents in Upminster are relevant to that, but you've lost me and I can only think it's cause you like arguing.

 

[nilagin]

I got your point. Its you'd managed to follow the thread mine was simply a room for £45 per week is really rather rare in Brixton. I'm sure you knew that having read the whole thing?

£45 is cheap anywhere to be honest but the point was made about people spending 2/3rds of their wages to rent a room, but my point was, much cheaper and better alternatives are available. than the usual cost of a room in London.

 

[boyfalldown]

£45 is cheap anywhere to be honest but the point was made about people spending 2/3rds of their wages to rent a room, but my point was, much cheaper and better alternatives are available. than the usual cost of a room in London.

Certainly there are cheaper options. Better is subjective though. Add in the cost of a travel card and commutes from an hour each way then I can see why you'd live in central London

 

[SFTPhotography]

That's a brilliant generalisations.

Why should pensioner's get a winter fuel allowance most will spend it all on Murray mints.

Just stating obvious facts. We are a fur coat and no kickers society.

 

[nilagin]

Certainly there are cheaper options. Better is subjective though. Add in the cost of a travel card and commutes from an hour each way then I can see why you'd live in central London

As I said though, weekly all zone travel card £58.60 and only 20 minutes from London, add 20 minutes to get further into London on the Underground. Share a flat, so still sort of renting a room, but at a much cheaper price.

 

[boyfalldown]

As I said though, weekly all zone travel card £58.60 and only 20 minutes from London, add 20 minutes to get further into London on the Underground. Share a flat, so still sort of renting a room, but at a much cheaper price.

Price alone doesn't make something 'better'

 

[MartynK]

Just stating obvious facts. We are a fur coat and no kickers society.

I think you meant knickers, and that's only in Edinburgh...

 

[nilagin]

Price alone doesn't make something 'better'

Unfortunately I've driven through Brixton quite a few times over the years, suffice to say it's one of the many places in London that I like to keep the car doors locked and windows shut and hope I don't have to wait long for traffic lights to change to green.

 

[Llamaman]

Unfortunately I've driven through Brixton quite a few times over the years, suffice to say it's one of the many places in London that I like to keep the car doors locked and windows shut and hope I don't have to wait long for traffic lights to change to green.

Can't imagine why - it's really quite safe. I walk through Brixton centre at night and the only time I've had any aggro was when a bunch of middle-class hipsters broke a minicab window and tried to blame me. I saw more crime living in Putney and Cambridge! Even Coldharbour Lane is pretty safe now - and that used to be proper scary.

 

[gerry s]

I think anybody that hasn't been to Brixton for a few years would be quite surprised.....

 

[dejongj]

Unfortunately I've driven through Brixton quite a few times over the years, suffice to say it's one of the many places in London that I like to keep the car doors locked and windows shut and hope I don't have to wait long for traffic lights to change to green.

I think anybody that hasn't been to Brixton for a few years would be quite surprised.....

^^^^^^^^ this

I quite like Brixton, got a good feel and vibe. I love the multicultural melting pot element of. Reminds me of the areas I used to live in the Netherlands as a student.

But yes, a lot better now than it was. Heck when I used to live in the former County Hall in the late nineties it was a huge contrast when I went south there and go clubbing. Now, still not a bad investment area.

 

[Steve Smith]

Thought retiring st 67 plus was a cut

I found out that I will now have to wait until 67 to retire rather than 65 like I thought. Surely when I started paying tax and National Insurance at 18, I entered into a contract with the government. How come they are allowed to change the terms after the agreement?


Steve.

 

[Steve Smith]

"That's a typical shabby leftist trick, you see the sort of people we're up against (Wilson)?"

"Most unreliable, sir."

/dadsarmy

Mainwaring: "When this war is over, there will be some changes. This country will be run by ordinary people... doctors, lawyers.. bank managers..."

Wilson: "I didn't know you were a socialist sir".

Mainwaring: "How dare you?!".


Steve.

 

[rjbell]

yeah. Cos I've never worked in my life.

I'm out of sympathy with idiots who cannot control their lives sensibly.

So have I what's that to do with it? The right have to stop assuming left are just envious job shy and anti business. It isn't true or helpful.

 

[dejongj]

I found out that I will now have to wait until 67 to retire rather than 65 like I thought. Surely when I started paying tax and National Insurance at 18, I entered into a contract with the government. How come they are allowed to change the terms after the agreement?


Steve.

Did you? Where is your copy of that contract?

 

[Steve Smith]

Did you? Where is your copy of that contract?

It is a contract in my opinion. I give them money, they pay me a pension. Which 33 years ago, was set to be payable from 65.

But they are the government so they can do what they like.


Steve.

 

[border_all]

I found out that I will now have to wait until 67 to retire rather than 65 like I thought. Surely when I started paying tax and National Insurance at 18, I entered into a contract with the government. How come they are allowed to change the terms after the agreement?


Steve.

Oh man Steve how I agree with that they change rules as they like and in every single case rob us of income

They tell us we should save and as you get nearer to drawing the money they dilute what you will get in order others who either saved zilch or silent decades out of work.

Wish I could turn clock back they could stuf SERPS I would have hidden as far as legally possible my savings since the 2008 crash I feel they robbed me of thousands and even before that Gordon Brown nicked money from pension savers. Steve Webb pension minister flat rate lies

Worst thing for me is they take it when you are so old you can't do sod all about it tell you what I certainly feel I have lost in austerity cuts and have no real chance at making up the short fall though in fairness I do not blame just the tories labour did a great job of taking money from pension funds

Don't rely or trust politicians with any more than you legally must

 

[border_all]

Did you? Where is your copy of that contract?

It was a contract of managed expectation

 

[Cobra]

Don't rely or trust politicians with any more than you legally must

For years I thought I was the only cynical old git, that didn't trust any of the self serving so called public servants, but what this and other threads have proved, is that I may not be in a minority

 

[fracster]

So have I what's that to do with it? The right have to stop assuming left are just envious job shy and anti business. It isn't true or helpful.

I didn`t say that. I don`t care about anybodys political leanings, all are entitled to believe in what they want.

It is my belief that people who prepare for the unexpected and prepare for the future should not have to bale out those who spend willynilly.

Of course there are people who are in genuine need through no fault of their own, I have no problem with the welfare state helping them, that is exactly what it is for. It is not for helping people who refuse to work,save, be sensible or live within their means. Alas, the welfare is systematically flawed and abused, but that is another thread.

 

[onomatopoeia]

^^^^^^^^ this

I quite like Brixton, got a good feel and vibe. I love the multicultural melting pot element of. Reminds me of the areas I used to live in the Netherlands as a student.

But yes, a lot better now than it was. Heck when I used to live in the former County Hall in the late nineties it was a huge contrast when I went south there and go clubbing. Now, still not a bad investment area.

When you get told "20 yards past the front door to my block is the start of gangland, make sure you don't go there" you question how much better.

 

[rjbell]

I didn`t say that. I don`t care about anybodys political leanings, all are entitled to believe in what they want.

It is my belief that people who prepare for the unexpected and prepare for the future should not have to bale out those who spend willynilly.

Of course there are people who are in genuine need through no fault of their own, I have no problem with the welfare state helping them, that is exactly what it is for. It is not for helping people who refuse to work,save, be sensible or live within their means. Alas, the welfare is systematically flawed and abused, but that is another thread.

You can not just simply refuse to work it's a myth. The media has made this into a huge issue that isn't. You can not just stay on unemployment benefits indefinitely you are forced back into work and rightly so. Even if everyone on unemployment benefits were refused to work it would still only account for 1% of the annual benefits bill, its not the big issue at all. Then consider the types of low income jobs they will likely get,they will still need some sort of benefit anyway. The majority of benefits are paid out to pensioners who have worked there whole life and low income working families. You can not tackle the huge benefit bill without looking at capping rent, building council houses and low minimum wage.

 

[Llamaman]

It is a contract in my opinion. I give them money, they pay me a pension.

State pensions are not a cash purchase scheme.

 

[boyfalldown]

When you get told "20 yards past the front door to my block is the start of gangland, make sure you don't go there" you question how much better.

Honestly. Brixton is pretty gentrified nowadays. They even have llamas ....either your friend is playing to your worries, or its kind of old info

 

[Llamaman]

Honestly. Brixton is pretty gentrified nowadays.

Indeed, there have been anti-gentrification protests and "yuppies out" graffiti.
We've also got (allegedly) the best pizza in Britain, courtesy of the original branch of Franca Manca.

There are still some rough areas away from the high street, but unless you're in the habit of walking through rough estates (and you get those everywhere in London) you're unlikely to run into any grief. The High Street itself has been cleaned up a lot since the Police took a zero-tolerance approach to the drug dealers who used to loiter outside the tube station. They've been replaced by buskers.
The train station could do with a refurb though - it's pretty grim.

 

[boyfalldown]

There are still some rough areas away from the high street, but unless you're in the habit of walking through rough estates (and you get those everywhere in London) you're unlikely to run into any grief. The High Street itself has been cleaned up a lot since the Police took a zero-tolerance approach to the drug dealers who used to loiter outside the tube station. They've been replaced by buskers.
The train station could do with a refurb though - it's pretty grim.

There is an awful lot of London like that.

 

[fracster]

You can not just simply refuse to work it's a myth. The media has made this into a huge issue that isn't. You can not just stay on unemployment benefits indefinitely you are forced back into work and rightly so. Even if everyone on unemployment benefits were refused to work it would still only account for 1% of the annual benefits bill, its not the big issue at all. Then consider the types of low income jobs they will likely get,they will still need some sort of benefit anyway. The majority of benefits are paid out to pensioners who have worked there whole life and low income working families. You can not tackle the huge benefit bill without looking at capping rent, building council houses and low minimum wage.

Why should rent be capped?
Property is available to rent across the financial range.

Low minimum wage? I kind of agree with you on that. My biggest gripe is the vile practice of zero contract hours. I know scores of young people trying to get going in life that are handicapped by this ,some until they find something else, others because that is all that is available in the area they live. The ,often, huge companies involved should be made to look at this practice, it does nobody any favours other than themselves.

You know as well as I that there are people ,even families, that quite happily bimble through life living of the welfare system. Whether that is 1% or 10% matters not one jot, it is wrong and those involved should be made to stop that practice.

 

[boyfalldown]

You know as well as I that there are people ,even families, that quite happily bimble through life living of the welfare system. Whether that is 1% or 10% matters not one jot, it is wrong and those involved should be made to stop that practice.

I agree with you there. I do think the vilification of those who genuinely need welfare needs to stop, as does hurting those people in an effort yo catch the small minority of abusers

 

[fracster]

I agree with you there. I do think the vilification of those who genuinely need welfare needs to stop, as does hurting those people in an effort yo catch the small minority of abusers

Exactly Hugh, the welfare system is a fantastic thing and a great safety net for those who need it. Yet is is abused and even ridiculed by some to the detriment of others. Yet hurting those who do need it to catch those that don`t is a national disgrace. Perhaps diverting some "funds" from elsewhere to actually employ more real people to catch the habitual offenders would be a solution.

 

[rjbell]

Why should rent be capped?
Property is available to rent across the financial range.

Low minimum wage? I kind of agree with you on that. My biggest gripe is the vile practice of zero contract hours. I know scores of young people trying to get going in life that are handicapped by this ,some until they find something else, others because that is all that is available in the area they live. The ,often, huge companies involved should be made to look at this practice, it does nobody any favours other than themselves.

You know as well as I that there are people ,even families, that quite happily bimble through life living of the welfare system. Whether that is 1% or 10% matters not one jot, it is wrong and those involved should be made to stop that practice.

You assume that the left isn't in agreement with you that people spending there life on welfare is a bad thing. You do have to choose your battles however and chasing that 1% of benefit spend for some ideological reason isn't it. 11% of the benefit bill is housing benefit. Which is going straight into Private landlords pockets. Capping this would be much more effective and reducing the welfare bill and cheaper to implement than going after the unemployed.

 

[dejongj]

I agree with you there. I do think the vilification of those who genuinely need welfare needs to stop, as does hurting those people in an effort yo catch the small minority of abusers

Fully agree, it's a cost to doing business. There will be a certain number wilfully uncomplyant claimants. I do not think it is worthwhile complicating the safetynet for all and grow the government to deal with it. Whatever the exact figures it will be a case of 80/20 rule.

 

[fracster]

You assume that the left isn't in agreement with you that people spending there life on welfare is a bad thing. You do have to choose your battles however and chasing that 1% of benefit spend for some ideological reason isn't it. 11% of the benefit bill is housing benefit. Which is going straight into Private landlords pockets. Capping this would be much more effective and cheaper to implement than going after the unemployed.

Robert, would you please stop mentioning left or right when quoting me, I don`t care about the left or right wing politics of this country,only what is fair and just. Thanks.

So what do we do about the lack of housing? Build more council housing may not be the best answer out there ( for the record,I am a private landlord and don`t accept DSS tenants), could the council not buy existing houses at the bottom end of the market, refurb and then let them out or let them rent free(and keep the housing benefit they would be paying out), pretty much what the majority of private landlords do. I don`t believe that building new is the answer, why not take advantage of what is already there.

 

[rjbell]

So what do we do about the lack of housing? Build more council housing may not be the best answer out there ( for the record,I am a private landlord and don`t accept DSS tenants), could the council not buy existing houses at the bottom end of the market, refurb and then let them out or let them rent free(and keep the housing benefit they would be paying out), pretty much what the majority of private landlords do. I don`t believe that building new is the answer, why not take advantage of what is already there.

I 100% wholeheartedly agree. I have no idea why they do not and baffled by this myself for a long time. This is a better idea again than caps but both are better options than trying to get the unemployed off benefits however annoying they may be.

 

[fracster]

I 100% wholeheartedly agree. I have no idea why they do not and baffled by this myself for a long time. This is a better idea again than caps but both are better options than trying to get the unemployed off benefits however annoying they may be.

If this was the case, they would also be in a position, and would need, that workforce of people to refurb, repair and maintain said properties ( having let to DSS tenants before, I know this would be necessary). I`m not saying the workforce involved should be council employees or private contractors, but employment opportunities would be there.

Yes it may well affect certain landlords, but some landlords, like some tenants, need a good kick in the stones in my opinion.

 

[nilagin]

I found out that I will now have to wait until 67 to retire rather than 65 like I thought. Surely when I started paying tax and National Insurance at 18, I entered into a contract with the government. How come they are allowed to change the terms after the agreement?


Steve.

So if you decide to take early retirement, let's say 60, obviously you'll have to wait until 67 to get your state pension, but I take it, because of the breach in your contract, you won't mind taking a reduced pension.