The tories V the pensioners

the black fox

the black fox

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Jeff
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simply cannot believe what I read on this mornings news ,that Liam fox and others are proposing cuts to o.a.p benefits I.e winter fuel and bus passes plus other bits ,and the statement that "it doesn't matter as a lot of them will be dead by the next election" or won't remember which party made the cuts ,the real face of these smug Etonian t***s is starting to show ,bloody fuming that man and his cronies in this should be removed from office ,they forget that we pay there wages and that everyone gets old eventually
 
the black fox said:
simply cannot believe what I read on this mornings news ,that Liam fox and others are proposing cuts to o.a.p benefits I.e winter fuel and bus passes plus other bits ,and the statement that "it doesn't matter as a lot of them will be dead by the next election" or won't remember which party made the cuts ,the real face of these smug Etonian t***s is starting to show ,bloody fuming that man and his cronies in this should be removed from office ,they forget that we pay there wages and that everyone gets old eventually
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Read it on the BBC this morning if it had been April 1st I'd have thought it an April fools joke.
 
the black fox said:
simply cannot believe what I read on this mornings news ,that Liam fox and others are proposing cuts to o.a.p benefits I.e winter fuel and bus passes plus other bits ,and the statement that "it doesn't matter as a lot of them will be dead by the next election" or won't remember which party made the cuts ,the real face of these smug Etonian t***s is starting to show ,bloody fuming that man and his cronies in this should be removed from office ,they forget that we pay there wages and that everyone gets old eventually
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Sorry i assumed you were Torie by the way you were talking on the Corbyn thread.
 
To be fair to Liam Fox (and I'm not a supporter of the Conservatives) the report on the BBC website indicates it was Alex Wild, rather than Liam Fox, who used the phrases above.

However, Liam Fox is part of the group and was at the meeting and therefore, unless he says otherwise, tacitly support this line. I wonder if he will try to distance himself from these statements when challenged.

This is the bloke who thought it was OK to take a mate along to MoD meetings, just the sort of person we need trying to influence policy.

Dave
 
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Tringa said:
To be fair to Liam Fox (and I'm not a supported of the Conservatives) the report on the BBC website indicates it was Alex Wild, rather than Liam Fox, who used the phrases above.

However, Liam Fox is part of the group and was at the meeting and therefore, unless he says otherwise, tacitly support this line. I wonder if he will try to distance himself from these statements when challenged.

This is the bloke who thought it was OK to take a mate along to MoD meetings, just the sort of person we need trying to influence policy.

Dave
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Spot on not known for thinking stupid off Wild seems it's tax payers alliance who are pushing from what I can find
 
About time pensioners got their fair share of cuts. :exit:
 
When a party trying to get elected says that there will be £12 000 000 000 of cuts but refuses to say where they will come from and still get elected it is obvious that they believe that everyone else is stupid and only exists to serve them. If you are not useful to them why should you exist?
 
Why do we keep blaming the Tories?
these measures are being taken because of the thieving, lying and dishonest behaviour of past governments and claimants.
the country is living beyond its means and everyone has a role to play in getting it more acceptable.
I don't believe pensioners benefits are the right way to go about it though.
 
border_all said:
Thought retiring st 67 plus was a cut :thinking:
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No, because that is a change that doesn't apply retrospectively to existing pensioners. It's hitting young people to continue to pander to the existing ones. Because they vote.
 
Yup corbyns propaganda machine is working really well. Absolutely pathetic during the conservative conference. Not only are they verbally abusing the participants, but also using it to take stuff out of context.

Think tanks are there to come up with all sorts of ideas, some make sense and most don't. Turning this into a nasty Tory story is just ridiculous and rather nasty in itself.

So much for positive politics hey ;)
 
dejongj said:
Yup corbyns propaganda machine is working really well. Absolutely pathetic during the conservative conference. Not only are they verbally abusing the participants, but also using it to take stuff out of context.

Think tanks are there to come up with all sorts of ideas, some make sense and most don't. Turning this into a nasty Tory story is just ridiculous and rather nasty in itself.

So much for positive politics hey ;)
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LOL, so its Corbyn's fault again!
 
Rapscallion said:
LOL, so its Corbyn's fault again!
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Well he is the leader isn't he? He is actively participating in rather aggressive protests by a minority group against a political party, and their conference participants. He is a passive aggressive in everything he does. Poor guy.
 
dejongj said:
Well he is the leader isn't he? He is actively participating in rather aggressive protests by a minority group against a political party, and their conference participants. He is a passive aggressive in everything he does. Poor guy.
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How on earth is he responsible for the drivel that Alex Wild said?
 
dejongj said:
Well he is the leader isn't he? He is actively participating in rather aggressive protests by a minority group against a political party,..........
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?
 
Llamaman said:
No, because that is a change that doesn't apply retrospectively to existing pensioners. It's hitting young people to continue to pander to the existing ones. Because they vote.
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Would you imagine woman who could have retired at 60 would agree or people who would have had heating allowance at 60 and wait years longer before they are entitled won't think it's a cut.

Eventually if younger are fortunate enough to live long enough they will be a pensioner and for the record pensioners paid taxes for the young going to school who now leave later in life than many pensioners did

What cut did the young get
Longer time in study
Higher starting tax threshold
A minimum wage not applicable to older people when they were young

Just for reference would you like to see your parents at food banks or maybe compulsory euthanasia would be your goal
 
Rapscallion said:
How on earth is he responsible for the drivel that Alex Wild said?
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He is not. He is responsible for the reaction to it and the propaganda machine using it to attack the Tories.
 
dejongj said:
Perhaps you two could explain what I supposed to have done to me. I don't play games, so no idea what it is you think I did?
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As far as I'm concerned, you haven't 'done' anything.
Read my post....I was merely responding to your rather witty reference to positive politics; which we all know doesn't exist.
 
border_all said:
What cut did the young get
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Education. The most important investment a country can make. 12% cut in real-world budget due to fiscal drag.

border_all said:
Just for reference would you like to see your parents at food banks or maybe compulsory euthanasia would be your goal
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An absurd extrapolation from what I wrote. When the reductio is used so clumsily, is it a reductio of reductio?

The point I was making was that, at a time when we are repeatedly told "we're all in this together", pensioners are getting triple-locked pensions whilst public sector workers are getting real-world pay cuts.
 
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rjbell said:
What propaganda machine is this? The media is pretty one sided and not Corbyns from where i'm looking
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It's a cunning propaganda machine. By constantly attacking him and misrepresenting what he says, they hope to create a tide of sympathy to carry him into No.10.
 
Llamaman said:
Education. The most important investment a country can make. 12% cut in real-world budget due to fiscal drag.


An absurd extrapolation from what I wrote. When the reductio is used so clumsily, is it a reductio of reductio?

The point I was making was that, at a time when we are repeatedly told "we're all in this together", pensioners are getting triple-locked pensions whilst public sector workers are getting real-world pay cuts.
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While I may not dispute 12% as I don't know, young people do get 3 years more than I did so I got 10 years now it's more like age 4 or earlier - 18 so 14 years an increase of 40% sounds like investment in the young

The Tripple lock you refer to

Minimum wage now £6.70 next year £7.20 that's a good percentage just under 8% in 6 months first 30 hours tax free
2.5% of say £115 £2.87 week divide 30 hours = 9.5 pence per hour does the lock sound so generous in that light

The new flat rate pension is nothing like a flat rate except for young people who can get the full 35years of qualifying without old fashioned SERPS that was almost thrust down our throats and Gordon Brown raided robbing pensions of those who had complied with government pressure

This whole thread was based on a think tank stupid message attributed to Liam Fox

Fwiw I think all ages should have the same tax and nis which would take money from those who could contribute most and the bus pass heating etc should be built into the state pension
 
I'm not against the pensioners being targeted for cuts to be honest. Would rather it was means tested but this would cost too much to implement that I doubt it would be a viable option. The tories have always tried to protect the grey vote at the expense of everyone else. Changes to disability benefits to effect welfare benefit savings have been disastrous for many genuinely disabled people and have caused untold misery and fear. Those over 65 were not included in these changes.
 
border_all said:
While I may not dispute 12% as I don't know, young people do get 3 years more than I did so I got 10 years now it's more like age 4 or earlier - 18 so 14 years an increase of 40% sounds like investment in the young

The Tripple lock you refer to

Minimum wage now £6.70 next year £7.20 that's a good percentage just under 8% in 6 months first 30 hours tax free
2.5% of say £115 £2.87 week divide 30 hours = 9.5 pence per hour does the lock sound so generous in that light

The new flat rate pension is nothing like a flat rate except for young people who can get the full 35years of qualifying without old fashioned SERPS that was almost thrust down our throats and Gordon Brown raided robbing pensions of those who had complied with government pressure

This whole thread was based on a think tank stupid message attributed to Liam Fox

Fwiw I think all ages should have the same tax and nis which would take money from those who could contribute most and the bus pass heating etc should be built into the state pension
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That minimum is for over 25's yes?
 
Llamaman said:
It's a cunning propaganda machine. By constantly attacking him and misrepresenting what he says, they hope to create a tide of sympathy to carry him into No.10.
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"That's a typical shabby leftist trick, you see the sort of people we're up against (Wilson)?"

"Most unreliable, sir."

/dadsarmy

:D
 
I should add I'm not advocating cutting the State pension - we are a wealthy country and should be able to look after everyone who needs it.

But if we are going down the road of attacking vulnerable people (it's what we voted for...), let's not be ageist about it.
 
Maggie52 said:
I'm not against the pensioners being targeted for cuts to be honest. Would rather it was means tested but this would cost too much to implement that I doubt it would be a viable option. The tories have always tried to protect the grey vote at the expense of everyone else. Changes to disability benefits to effect welfare benefit savings have been disastrous for many genuinely disabled people and have caused untold misery and fear. Those over 65 were not included in these changes.
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Not expensive if done through general taxes easy peesy
 
dejongj said:
He is actively participating in rather aggressive protests by a minority group against a political party, and their conference participants
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Is he there then. The rather aggressive protests have egged one Tory. Not on, and I know a crowd can be aggressive without conducting violence. But their aggression (and its a lose term) seems to be observed by snipers. In itself a pretty aggressive act
 
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Llamaman said:
I should add I'm not advocating cutting the State pension - we are a wealthy country and should be able to look after everyone who needs it.

But if we are going down the road of attacking vulnerable people (it's what we voted for...), let's not be ageist about it.
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Upon something I can agree on that's me leaving thread why someone on a pension of let's say 100sk should get a bus pass is stupid in my view
 
Oh no! A politician got egged. Politics has reached a new low... thanks to Corbyn.

Michael Heseltine 1982
John Prescott 2001
Robert Kilroy-Silk 2004
Ruth Kelly 2006
Nick Griffin 2009
David Cameron 2010
George Galloway 2012
Ed Miliband 2013
Nigel Farage 2014

To name but a few (and I've ignored tomatoes, custard, flour and daffodils in this analysis)
 
dejongj said:
Well he is the leader isn't he? He is actively participating in rather aggressive protests by a minority group against a political party, and their conference participants. He is a passive aggressive in everything he does. Poor guy.
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I thought I'd read, 80,000 protesters and 4 arrests.

About the same for a Bullingdon Club night out then :lol:
 
border_all said:
Not expensive if done through general taxes easy peesy
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I think it's because travel passes etc are issued by local authorities who don't have access to HMRC records. It could perhaps be linked to council tax bands, but even that would involve joining up government IT systems, which the UK is notoriously awful at.
In most cases, these things aren't means tested because it actually saves money by not means testing.

To give one example, the changes to child benefit for 'high earners' are a disaster. Tax payers get numerous letters, changes of tax codes, have to fill in tax returns which they may not have to have done before... all of which needs personnel in HMRC to process, monitor and pretend to answer phone calls about. All this costs money, to recover very little.

In my own case, by making me fill out a return, I claimed a number of deductions I'd never previously worried about claiming (professional membership fees etc) - HMRC ended up owing me money. I'm probably not alone in this either. I wonder how much it has actually saved - probably very little, if anything.
 
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