The tories V the pensioners

nilagin said:
Get one that is. There must be loads of poorly paid jobs. If it was a decent paid job it wouldn't take 2/3rd's of your pay for a room in a flat share.
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And when the hospitals are all empty of nurses and porters because they've all taken your advice to get jobs at Tesco, I suppose that'll be someone else's fault?
 
tom24 said:
I cannot fathom why our elders live in fear of keeping themselves warm or eating well nor anyone of any age whilst many more millions nay, billions are available for 'things' that kill other humans.
I'm not trolling, i wish someone could be honest about why there are absolute facts in regard of the monies spent in the different govt depts' but the less fortunate are the ones to pay for savings, perhaps being a humanist is beyond the ken of some?
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But that is a whole different shift, and totally different question. I fully agree, I think it is ridiculous we spend and set aside billions in aid whilst cutting at home....I just don't understand that.
 
tom24 said:
The right wing and the left power the same bird, why not let common sense and decency be all that a political party spout?

I'm basically an anarchist,the above with rules yes but no rulers, we need to look after each other, why should anyone have a lot more than another human being in order to live?
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Sadly, because some in their arrogance think that they deserve the riches and others do not.
 
I'm not talking about aid to others that need it, i don't care about that as it's a need of others and long may it continue, there are enough pieces of printed paper to wipe everyones backsides,aid means helping each other not giving funds to a conglomerate to pay big salaries to suited idiots. I ask why should people suffer daily and it is a suffering to keep their family fed.clothed and housed in this corner of the earth.
 
tom24 said:
I'm not talking about aid to others that need it, i don't care about that as it's a need of others and long may it continue, there are enough pieces of printed paper to wipe everyones backsides,aid means helping each other not giving funds to a conglomerate to pay big salaries to suited idiots. I ask why should people suffer daily and it is a suffering to keep their family fed.clothed and housed in this corner of the earth.
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dejongj knew exactly what you meant but he tries to be 'clever'!
 
TOM

it is because as you get older you get more frail and the need to keep warmer and have food on the table becomes more essential. As you are still a youngster you may not understand, but when you reach the age of 80 or 90 then you may
 
Rapscallion said:
dejongj knew exactly what you meant but he tries to be 'clever'!
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Don't you just love it when other people know you better than you do yourself.

So no, I obviously did not know what he meant. What did he mean? I though it was about priorities regards where we spend our tax monies. I belief in defence spending, belief in education, belief in health, belief in the arts, sports etc. I also belief in a much more efficient and leaner less costly government. I also belief in less spending on foreign aid whilst there is a need at home. So no I obviously didn't know what Tom meant, I know what I meant which seems to be very different from what you are convinced that I mean.

You should monetise those skills of yours where you know better than other people what those people mean.
 
tom24 said:
I'm not talking about aid to others that need it, i don't care about that as it's a need of others and long may it continue, there are enough pieces of printed paper to wipe everyones backsides,aid means helping each other not giving funds to a conglomerate to pay big salaries to suited idiots. I ask why should people suffer daily and it is a suffering to keep their family fed.clothed and housed in this corner of the earth.
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Nice language :God: nice to see how you see your fellow human beings. But going on then, what conglomerate were you thinking off, and which big salaried idiots are you referring to that we shouldn't pay but divert the funds to instead.
 
dejongj said:
Don't you just love it when other people know you better than you do yourself.

So no, I obviously did not know what he meant. What did he mean? I though it was about priorities regards where we spend our tax monies. I belief in defence spending, belief in education, belief in health, belief in the arts, sports etc. I also belief in a much more efficient and leaner less costly government. I also belief in less spending on foreign aid whilst there is a need at home. So no I obviously didn't know what Tom meant, I know what I meant which seems to be very different from what you are convinced that I mean.

You should monetise those skills of yours where you know better than other people what those people mean.
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If you think that skill is worth monetising, it can only be because I was right. :)
 
I simply can't see why the structure of society is what it is, when it seems to be based around pieces of paper that promise a certain value.
Why can't everyone have the same standard of abode and enough to feed the family?
I'm trying to keep my argument simple as i believe it can be a simple solution without hierarchy of any kind.
 
Rapscallion said:
If you think that skill is worth monetising, it can only be because I was right. :)
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Well let's just say I won't be investing my children's inheritance in that venture. But you seem to be convinced of it so why not give it a try and see how far you get. Some people buy sand on eBay, I'm sure they'll pay you to hear their own opinion.
 
tom24 said:
I simply can't see why the structure of society is what it is, when it seems to be based around pieces of paper that promise a certain value.
Why can't everyone have the same standard of abode and enough to feed the family?
I'm trying to keep my argument simple as i believe it can be a simple solution without hierarchy of any kind.
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It is a big question with a big flaw that will thwart that objective. That big flaw is human beings. In the last 2,000 that has been recorded this hasn't happened so why now? The "pieces of paper" you refer to can easily be transferred to skills, produce etc. Doesn't change the fact that people value skills differently. The constant amongst all of this is people. Highly complex and emotional beings; jealousy, greed, envy, love, hate, revengeful, inventive, resilient, etc.

Many communities over time tried this, every single one failed because human beings are involved.
 
Wait until Friday, the auld punk may submit a few contradictory choons for your hopefully, enjoyment.
It's good to place an opinion but not to fall out over, i've many friends of differing opinions but when it comes to it,we all enjoy each others company and can laugh at each other,hell that's what gets us through this thing called life, taking the rise out of ourselves.
 
It's the Internet age Tom, why wait until Friday when you can pluck the day today. The attention span will have seized and one returns earning a crust to feed my family.
 
Harkening back to my youth...the Friday night disco...best of times..think i was in the last of real rebellion genres of youth, late 70's/early 80's
 
tom24 said:
The right wing and the left power the same bird, why not let common sense and decency be all that a political party spout?

I'm basically an anarchist,the above with rules yes but no rulers, we need to look after each other, why should anyone have a lot more than another human being in order to live?
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I agree, guess what the solution is, get a job and quit expecting someone else make up the difference. Job doesn't pay enough, get two or three and don't spend more than you can afford.
 
cambsno said:
I just know that I doubt I could buy a house now. Say your on 30k, at best that's £120k mortgage, plus you will need 5-10k min as deposit, what can you get for that? Not a lot. Yes you can save but unless you can still live at home and live a very boring life it is very hard.
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I was 27 when I left home and bought my own place. Life wasn't boring. If you feel the need to buy a place of your own, buy it with someone else.
 
Llamaman said:
And when the hospitals are all empty of nurses and porters because they've all taken your advice to get jobs at Tesco, I suppose that'll be someone else's fault?
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No reason why they should be empty, let's face it, how many hospitals are in the middle of nowhere that no-one can get too? None is my guess, so there will be no shortage of people to fill the jobs.
 
tom24 said:
Harkening back to my youth...the Friday night disco...best of times..think i was in the last of real rebellion genres of youth, late 70's/early 80's
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Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday night for me... Until I had some needs and I switched to working in restaurants on all those nights. School/Study during the day, work in the evening, and go out in the night... Don't know when I slept.... More Saturday and Sunday jobs as well....I had to pay for my studies, it wasn't free for me. Pay for fees and living costs, did it all myself with no loans and no hand outs and no bank of mummy and daddy even though they could afford it as their wealth was the reason I didn't get government aid.

Its all about learning self responsibility.
 
Rapscallion said:
Sadly, because some in their arrogance think that they deserve the riches and others do not.
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Why is it arrogance to work hard to achieve something and earn money, arrogance is sitting on your arse expecting those that have done that share it with those that don't. Perhaps if the latter weren't so arrogant, then there would be enough money to benefit those who can't.
 
nilagin said:
I agree, guess what the solution is, get a job and quit expecting someone else make up the difference. Job doesn't pay enough, get two or three and don't spend more than you can afford.
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I agree why are we making up the difference. Why are subsidising huge companies with huge profits. Why don't they pay a fair wage for a fair days work.
 
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rjbell said:
I agree why are we making up the difference. Why are subsidising huge companies with huge profits. Why don't they pay a fair wage for a fair days work.
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In the main surely they do. Supply and demand isn't it?
 
nilagin said:
No reason why they should be empty, let's face it, how many hospitals are in the middle of nowhere that no-one can get too? None is my guess, so there will be no shortage of people to fill the jobs.
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How many hospitals are surrounded by elderly people with live-at-home adult children who want (and have the aptitude) to be nurses? Perhaps not quite as many as you think.

Workforce mobility is a key ingredient of a flourishing economy (ask an economist if you don't believe me). Telling everyone to stay at home and just do whatever work happens to be around isn't going to work.
 
Llamaman said:
If 2/3 of your take home pay is going on rent for a room in a dingy flat share, choices are few and far between.
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Friend of mine pays £45/week for a room in dingy flat share in London. Brixton to be precise. Not the worst part of London, but pretty close. For that to be 2/3rds of take home one would have to be working approx 10 hours/week at NMW. So where are these people that are working full time and paying 2/3rds of take home on a dingy room in a flat share living? London is the most expensive part of the UK for housing costs by loads, it is it's own bubble and I don't understand why people would go there to live if they didn't already (or indeed why they wouldn't consider moving somewhere else). I grew up inside the M25 ring and moved away at 19 for university and never came back. I could probably earn loads more if I moved back, but it's not worth it to me.

On NMW one would have to pay something like £150/week for a room for it to be 2/3rds take home based on a 35h week (very rough calculation). There are cheaper options than that.
 
Llamaman said:
How many hospitals are surrounded by elderly people with live-at-home adult children who want (and have the aptitude) to be nurses? Perhaps not quite as many as you think.

Workforce mobility is a key ingredient of a flourishing economy (ask an economist if you don't believe me). Telling everyone to stay at home and just do whatever work happens to be around isn't going to work.
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Who said anything about elderly parents? You start work when you leave school/college, you decide on a career, you train and start the job whilst living at home. When you can afford to move out, do so, can't afford it on your own, find someone to share the cost. Still can't afford it keep saving until you can or take on a second job. I had part time work, 2-3 evenings a week and for a few hours on a weekend to supplement my wages from my apprenticeship.
 
Keep walking... :coat:
 
onomatopoeia said:
Friend of mine pays £45/week for a room in dingy flat share in London. Brixton to be precise. Not the worst part of London, but pretty close. For that to be 2/3rds of take home one would have to be working approx 10 hours/week at NMW. So where are these people that are working full time and paying 2/3rds of take home on a dingy room in a flat share living? London is the most expensive part of the UK for housing costs by loads, it is it's own bubble and I don't understand why people would go there to live if they didn't already (or indeed why they wouldn't consider moving somewhere else). I grew up inside the M25 ring and moved away at 19 for university and never came back. I could probably earn loads more if I moved back, but it's not worth it to me.

On NMW one would have to pay something like £150/week for a room for it to be 2/3rds take home based on a 35h week (very rough calculation). There are cheaper options than that.
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I'd think he'd be very wise to hang on to that for as long as he needs it. Its certainly far from typical Sadly, this story is far more typical

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34404651
 
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boyfalldown said:
I'd think he'd be very wise to hang on to that for as long as he needs it. Sadly, this story is far more typical

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34404651
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Nothing new in London. When I was 'green' and out of town some landlords and agents thought they could take the p***. I had the discussions and conversations about the area and they showed me council flat on sink estates which obviously I didn't recognise when listening over the telephone. Heck I suspected half of what they showed me were actually sublets. There are normal places around, it just takes a little while to get your head around the market in London.
 
dejongj said:
Nothing new in London. When I was 'green' and out of town some landlords and agents thought they could take the p***. I had the discussions and conversations about the area and they showed me council flat on sink estates which obviously I didn't recognise when listening over the telephone. Heck I suspected half of what they showed me were actually sublets. There are normal places around, it just takes a little while to get your head around the market in London.
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Thats an extreme example for sure, and the market is as you describe. But £45 p/w is just as extreme. A quick glance on spareroom.co.uk shows you'd expect to pay between £600-£900 per month for a room in Brixton today. Depending on proximity to the tube and quality of the room

http://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/london/brixton
 
boyfalldown said:
Thats an extreme example for sure, and the market is as you describe. But £45 p/w is just as extreme. A quick glance on spareroom.co.uk shows you'd expect to pay between £600-£900 per month for a room in Brixton today. Depending on proximity to the tube and quality of the room

http://www.spareroom.co.uk/flatshare/london/brixton
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Agreed, £45/w is very low as well. A friend of mine was studying in London in 98/99 and was paying £150/w in West Hampstead. I gave him my spare room in the Country Hall for £100/w. That was my beer money sorted, although the pub always looked funny at me with my £50 notes....His mum paid it to me using cash once every three months...
 
It's the fault of successive governments

All though my life the powers that be encouraged us to save for retirement .. to invest our hard earned dosh so that when we retired we could look after ourselves.
Then there was de regulation of the banking industry in the 80's by government, partly leading to the banking crisis years later which in turn screwed peoples pension funds for years and left many with depleted pensions at a time when they needed them.
Interest rates dropped ... lucky if you can get 0.5% now in a bank / building society, apart from Santander .... so you have to put it in the investment sector if you want to try and get a return, which today is always a risk and is even likely to take a hit if some financial guru has it away with a chambermaid in New York or the Greeks decide to tuck more of their money away under the mattress

Then the pensionable age is increased, meaning in reality that the Government will pay less pensions out ... and the added worry to us all that there are 77 year old people driving busses around because they cant afford not to work.

It's no surprise therefore that they propose these changes. More pensioners will struggle, and no doubt it will lead to deaths if the heating allowance is taken away, which again means the govt will save money! All these benefits should be related to earnings ... I mean, whats the benefit of paying winter fuel allowance / chils benefit to a millionare!?

I retired early at 52 and fled to Spain thereby relieveing the Government of my costs, having paid in to the system all my life. They have a different way of dealing with pensioners in Spain. It's a lot more family orientated and the pensions in general, believe it or not, are better.

Pensioners often get a bad press. Lets not forget they have gone through life paying into the system with expectations. Pensions and most pensioner benefits are not hand outs. They are what people are entitled to for what they have paid in.
 
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