The tories V the pensioners

[fracster]

Why don't people try saving for later life, why not save for lifes little booby traps or even save to actually buy something rather than finance it?.........suppose that is just old fashioned and everyone should spend, spend and spend even more, then expect to get financial help. Sounds like a good goverment policy.

 

[Llamaman]

If you are not useful to them why should you exist?

But pensioners are useful to the Tories. 40% vote Tory, compared to 36% in the general population.
Considering older people are more likely to vote - 76% turnout in 2010 compared to 44% of 18-24 year olds - the grey vote is a critical part of Conservative election strategy.

 

[dejongj]

But pensioners are useful to the Tories. 40% vote Tory, compared to 36% in the general population.
Considering older people are more likely to vote - 76% turnout in 2010 compared to 44% of 18-24 year olds - the grey vote is a critical part of Conservative election strategy.

Wisdom comes with age. I've seen many a young activist turn Tory in later life. Heck the amount of people who now have to pay their own bills and see that the poll tax was actually a fair implementation. It is inevitable to learn the fairest ways with some experience and responsibility miles on ones old bones.

 

[Cobra]

Oh no! A politician got egged. ..... To name but a few ............

Well it seems to me "someone" was well over due in that case

Why don't people try saving for later life, why not save for lifes little booby traps or even save to actually buy something rather than finance it? .

I agree in principle with that Ade, but there are a lot of people that cannot afford to save, and ( a lot of) the youngsters, don't know the meaning of the word "save"
Then we have a certain generation, that includes me, while we were buying our houses, the interest rates were "sky high"
now those houses are paid for, and we have a few quid in the bank, the same interest rates are rock bottom.
Being hit at both ends of the scale is not really funny

 

[Peter B]

Why don't people try saving for later life, why not save for lifes little booby traps or even save to actually buy something rather than finance it?.........suppose that is just old fashioned and everyone should spend, spend and spend even more, then expect to get financial help. Sounds like a good goverment policy.

I think the problem here is that no-one on minimum wage, zero hours contract, short term contracts, or similar will ever be able to save in the way that people did in the past, while those wise investors who had a stack of shares in RBS or all their money in Equitable Life will have lost out massively at a time in their life where it is difficult to make up these losses. The "bus pass" in Scotland is actually called a National Entitlement Card and costs peanuts to issue, plus it serves as a limited form of ID card for the carrier. It doesn't cost any money if people don't use it, so all those who are entitled to one but disagree with the idea can just not bother using it.

 

[the black fox]

Right lets put this in perspective ,the basic pension is just about enough to live on but in general prices go up monthly so any increase is soon eaten away ,luckily I have a small private pension that gives a bit extra but a lot of OAP,s don't have even that .

This has totally nothing to do with labour if what was stated was true then it's bloody disgusting behaviour and the perpetrator should be sacked on the spot whatever party there in .it's just another case of the goalposts being moved just like the advance in pension age .again luckily I can and do drive ,but if I had to use my bus pass ,living on the Welsh border I can use mine to travel anywhere in Wales ,,but it doesn't cover me for travel into or within England so in my books totally useless .just another big of jobsworth stupidity

 

[cambsno]

What is the context? Many people agree that many old people shouldn't get certain allowances and are means tested, if that's the case I don't see a problem.

 

[dejongj]

Right lets put this in perspective ,the basic pension is just about enough to live on but in general prices go up monthly so any increase is soon eaten away ,luckily I have a small private pension that gives a bit extra but a lot of OAP,s don't have even that .

This has totally nothing to do with labour if what was stated was true then it's bloody disgusting behaviour and the perpetrator should be sacked on the spot whatever party there in .it's just another case of the goalposts being moved just like the advance in pension age .again luckily I can and do drive ,but if I had to use my bus pass ,living on the Welsh border I can use mine to travel anywhere in Wales ,,but it doesn't cover me for travel into or within England so in my books totally useless .just another big of jobsworth stupidity

He was part of the tax payers alliance, the director to exact not party specific.

 

[Ceejay]

Taxpayers' Alliance director apologises for 'crass' pensioner comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34447917

 

[rjbell]

Why don't people try saving for later life, why not save for lifes little booby traps or even save to actually buy something rather than finance it?.........suppose that is just old fashioned and everyone should spend, spend and spend even more, then expect to get financial help. Sounds like a good goverment policy.

This does show how out of touch you are with the working class. Or even middle class under 30 struggling to save for house deposits never mind getting old.

 

[fracster]

This does show how out of touch you are with the working class.

yeah. Cos I've never worked in my life.

I'm out of sympathy with idiots who cannot control their lives sensibly.

 

[rjbell]

yeah. Cos I've never worked in my life.

I'm out of sympathy with idiots who cannot control their lives sensibly.

There is no money left to save. If you did some research you would find that out, but of course you won't because you've made your mind up already.

 

[dejongj]

This does show how out of touch you are with the working class. Or even middle class under 30 struggling to save for house deposits never mind getting old.

So it is all about classes then? Ultimately these are choices, everyone's choice and priorities can be different at different times. It's always possible, but choices may need to be made. And for some more than for others.

 

[rjbell]

So it is all about classes then? Ultimately these are choices, everyone's choice and priorities can be different at different times. It's always possible, but choices may need to be made. And for some more than for others.

No just pointing out its not just the lazy working class and scroungers struggling.

 

[Peter B]

Taxpayers' Alliance director apologises for 'crass' pensioner comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34447917

I bet you he still believes in the concept though. (n)

 

[dejongj]

No just pointing out its not just the lazy working class and scroungers struggling.

And there is this class thing again. What is it with the lefts obsession with class? Nobody else cares.

 

[dejongj]

I bet you he still believes in the concept though. (n)

Well hasn't he got a point? Why should very well off people get winter fuel allowance subsidies etc. Why shy away from it in order to protect those that really require it?

And yes the other comments were crass and crude. Got a grain of truth in it though, let's be honest amongst friends.

 

[Phil V]

And there is this class thing again. What is it with the lefts obsession with class? Nobody else cares.

Of course they don't care.whenever did those with power and money care about those without?

An explanation, not a defence btw.

 

[rjbell]

And there is this class thing again. What is it with the lefts obsession with class? Nobody else cares.

It depends on how you class class isn't it. I'm referring to household earnings not whether you say lunch/dinner or dinner/tea or some other nonsense like that.

 

[Llamaman]

So it is all about classes then? Ultimately these are choices, everyone's choice and priorities can be different at different times. It's always possible, but choices may need to be made. And for some more than for others.

If 2/3 of your take home pay is going on rent for a room in a dingy flat share, choices are few and far between.

 

[Cobra]

If 2/3 of your take home pay is going on rent for a room in a dingy flat share, choices are few and far between.

Curiously, I can't afford to buy my own house! ( I'm glad I don't have to! )
What chance do the yung'uns have these days?

 

[OldCarlos]

Then we have a certain generation, that includes me, while we were buying our houses, the interest rates were "sky high"
now those houses are paid for.......,

the Govt of the day will thank you for investing in your old age by taking a large slice of that if you ever need `care`.

 

[Cobra]

the Govt of the day will thank you for investing in your old age by taking a large slice of that if you ever need `care`.

I know
However, if it looks like going that way, it'll be in the form of a living will to my kids with the instructions to sell it and split the proceeds ASAP

 

[nilagin]

If 2/3 of your take home pay is going on rent for a room in a dingy flat share, choices are few and far between.

Perhaps it would be best not to leave the parental home until you can afford to then.

 

[Llamaman]

Perhaps it would be best not to leave the parental home until you can afford to then.

And what if your parents don't happen to live within commuting distance of your job?

 

[realspeed]

As an OAP who has started with nothing and worked hard all my life it is about time OAP's were given more consideration than these scroungers getting cheap interest mortgages who can't be bothered to work and save. Interest rates should not be allowed to fall below 5% so us savers get some reward for the money invested which keeps these tax credit idlers in money. It is all about how poor people are with, we are given this and that by the government and the only thing pensioners get is a free bus pass (between certain hours only) and a winter fuel allowance. If anyone thinks they can just live on a state pension of around £100 a week then they are deluded.

Take away bus passes and many OAP's won't be able to get to the shops let alone anywhere else, and by doing away with winter fuel allowance would only put a bigger strain on hospitals with OAP'S suffering from extreme cold and needing treatment.

Andy ( Llamaman post no 8 ) says quote " About time pensioners got their fair share of cuts"unquote.

That leaves me absolutely speechless, I would like to know what cuts you are talking about?

Before anyone says there are no jobs, what a load of rubbish, it just people are too lazy to do things like knock on doors with a bucket and sponge offering window cleaning, or garden work or small property repairs etc , let alone dog walking- oven cleaning and many other such type of jobs

Again he says quote" And what if your parents don't happen to live within commuting distance of your job?" unquote.

obviously not heard of walking or push bikes as it means making a little effort or move close to the job or change jobs

Oh when my wife and I got married in 1972 guzuming was rife as to house buying far worse than now we had 5 jobs between us ( I had to give up at least one under DR's orders through it causing me ill health) and save every penny to buy out first house. No going out to the pub for a drink or meal- no holidays for 18 months. yes it was hard, very hard and we had no money to start with either so forget thinking of class structure we were as poor or poorer than most.

Graft? today it is an unknown word.

 

[dejongj]

If 2/3 of your take home pay is going on rent for a room in a dingy flat share, choices are few and far between.

They may not be plentiful, and I don't pretend they are easy, yet there are still choices...Get a cheaper flat, earn more money, move to a different area, and so on ... The choices are there

 

[dejongj]

And what if your parents don't happen to live within commuting distance of your job?

Commute longer, further, get a different job, and so on...Or live with the choices one makes...And that is what it is...Heck I'd love to live in Westminster within walking distance of my commute, guess what I can't afford it and spend several hours per day on my commute to live somewhere where I have space and land...I could choose not to and live in much smaller accommodation and be nearer....but never as close I would like to be....These are choices most have to make every single day, and compromise on many things....

 

[OldCarlos]

I know
However, if it looks like going that way, it'll be in the form of a living will to my kids with the instructions to sell it and split the proceeds ASAP

As long as it's done more than 6 years before you think you'll need it, otherwise they'll be back after the kids.

Another thing is, folk/kids getting power of attorney. I don't It can't be done once dementia has started & how do any of us know when that will be, to plan ahead.

 

[nilagin]

And what if your parents don't happen to live within commuting distance of your job?

Get one that is. There must be loads of poorly paid jobs. If it was a decent paid job it wouldn't take 2/3rd's of your pay for a room in a flat share.

 

[dejongj]

As long as it's done more than 6 years before you think you'll need it, otherwise they'll be back after the kids.

Another thing is, folk/kids getting power of attorney. I don't It can't be done once dementia has started & how do any of us know when that will be, to plan ahead.

A good tax planning advisor is best used to plan ahead and review regularly pending the size of the estate. Putting it all in trust can help soften the blow as well

 

[tom24]

The right wing and the left power the same bird, why not let common sense and decency be all that a political party spout?

I'm basically an anarchist,the above with rules yes but no rulers, we need to look after each other, why should anyone have a lot more than another human being in order to live?

 

[Kaolin]

As an OAP who has started with nothing and worked hard all my life it is about time OAP's were given more consideration than these scroungers getting cheap interest mortgages who can't be bothered to work and save. Interest rates should not be allowed to fall below 5% so us savers get some reward for the money invested which keeps these tax credit idlers in money. It is all about how poor people are with, we are given this and that by the government and the only thing pensioners get is a free bus pass (between certain hours only) and a winter fuel allowance. If anyone thinks they can just live on a state pension of around £100 a week then they are deluded.

Take away bus passes and many OAP's won't be able to get to the shops let alone anywhere else, and by doing away with winter fuel allowance would only put a bigger strain on hospitals with OAP'S suffering from extreme cold and needing treatment.

Andy ( Llamaman post no 8 ) says quote " About time pensioners got their fair share of cuts"unquote.
..........

Graft? today it is an unknown word.

And this is where this just becomes intergenerational point scoring and I am reminded of Monty Python.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
Just because your experience was hard it is no reason to kick the current generation. Back in the 70's house prices were proportionally lower compared to wages, but interest rates higher. Education much cheaper, but generally fewer places in HE and more difficult to access.

Winners - who cares.

The whole game of political divide and conquer is so much crap. Its all about choices and trying to fund the essentials. Personally I and most people I know have a pretty good idea of what graft is, I am lucky I work hard and am relatively well paid - my age is irrelevant.

 

[cambsno]

If 2/3 of your take home pay is going on rent for a room in a dingy flat share, choices are few and far between.

I just know that I doubt I could buy a house now. Say your on 30k, at best that's £120k mortgage, plus you will need 5-10k min as deposit, what can you get for that? Not a lot. Yes you can save but unless you can still live at home and live a very boring life it is very hard.

 

[realspeed]

Yes interest rates were higher so we had to pay back a lot more on our mortgage proportional to today. AS for education i had to leave school at the age of 15 and get an apprenticeship lasting 5 years. I got my qualifications doing day release and night school 2 evenings a week. Oh and because of the work it was a 5 day 60hr week as that was what the men did and we had to do the same as we could not get back from a building site without them via the company transport

problem is most nowadays want a house fully furnished- their annual holidays- weekend breaks and then wonder why they can't afford.

Night school finished around 10 pm so a long day as a youngster from 6.30 am. weekends was working in a pub collecting glasses and cleaning up or/and helping a friend with car repairsl

 

[tom24]

Why should anyone have to waste their lives travelling to a place of work for a wage that said travelling consumes a big percentage of?
Why should children be bereft of their parents/guardians because they have to leave them in order to pay for the mortgage of the shell they share?

Why does killing oneself through work equate to being better than someone else?

 

[dejongj]

The right wing and the left power the same bird, why not let common sense and decency be all that a political party spout?

I'm basically an anarchist,the above with rules yes but no rulers, we need to look after each other, why should anyone have a lot more than another human being in order to live?

If putting in the same effort, if making the same choices, if supporting the same priorities, etc then there is no reason why anyone has a lot more than another...However not everybody is the same, we all make our choices and got to live with it and deal with it. Free education, health, housing etc...There is nothing standing in the way from obtaining the same as anyone else...You got to work for it though just like anyone else, and want it, and make the choice...The choice is yours...

 

[rjbell]

Yes interest rates were higher so we had to pay back a lot more on our mortgage proportional to today. AS for education i had to leave school at the age of 15 and get an apprenticeship lasting 5 years. I got my qualifications doing day release and night school 2 evenings a week. Oh and because of the work it was a 5 day 60hr week as that was what the men did and we had to do the same as we could not get back from a building site without them via the company transport

problem is most nowadays want a house fully furnished- their annual holidays- weekend breaks and then wonder why they can't afford.

Night school finished around 10 pm so a long day as a youngster from 6.30 am. weekends was working in a pub collecting glasses and cleaning up or/and helping a friend with car repairsl

Wow apprenticeships remember thoughs!

 

[dejongj]

Why should anyone have to waste their lives travelling to a place of work for a wage that said travelling consumes a big percentage of?
Why should children be bereft of their parents/guardians because they have to leave them in order to pay for the mortgage of the shell they share?

Why does killing oneself through work equate to being better than someone else?

It doesn't, is anyone saying that? However, those consequences are the flipside of some of the choices we have to make. Absolutely fine if you don't want to do that, but then deal with or life with the consequences. However not putting in the effort yourself, and expecting others to do so in order to support you wont win any sympathy votes....

 

[tom24]

I cannot fathom why our elders live in fear of keeping themselves warm or eating well nor anyone of any age whilst many more millions nay, billions are available for 'things' that kill other humans.
I'm not trolling, i wish someone could be honest about why there are absolute facts in regard of the monies spent in the different govt depts' but the less fortunate are the ones to pay for savings, perhaps being a humanist is beyond the ken of some?