The ST4 immigration/benefits/political ramblings thread.

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ST4 said:
My other bone of contention is the lack of criminal background checks we do before letting people in

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/55...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Does the UK border agency just let folk in. A twice convicted robber, why would you want to let someone like that in. The sooner we move to a points based immigration system where you benefit to the country you are entering and financial viability has to be proven, the better.
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I agree with you there , there's nothing wrong with decent people coming here but there should be checks for a criminal record
 
archangel said:
Here's my take on immigration......it's a feckin joke.....we need a point system which will ensure the correct skilled migrants can come and make out country better not worse....no criminals, rapists or paedophiles.....we would have a policy like Australia where asylum seekers are housed safely until processed and then repatriated back to their own country after the threat has gone, like I said yesterday, the isle of sheppy....but we also need to sort out our other problems like the lazy s***s on long term benefit....maybe we could send them to the same island.......
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ST4 said:
Couldn't agree more mate. Be prepared to be called a racist, bigot etc for your troubles.
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Nope, unlike some Archangel can put his opinion forward and raise some valid points.

How would you suggest you control those coming into the country especially those coming in as a visitor or on holiday, but with no intention of returning? How do you pick people out on entry to the uk. Would you be prepared for the long queues.
Aren't we reliant on correct information shared between countries?
 
ST4 said:
How can they do that, we've given them olive branch after olive branch. Their economy is buggered, they've got used to public spending/services way beyond the fiscal capability of their countries tax payers to provide.

Don't borrow what you cannot afford to pay back or better still, don't spend what you don't have. They are more than guilty of both.
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But then they raise a valid point? The EU bank is generating billions of new money to give to the banks who caused the issues in the first place?
Why not do something good with it and wipe off some of the countries debts instead?

bring back employment, allow the taxes to pay off more debt, generate the economy, rather than just spunk it into financial institutions to give out as bonuses?
 
ST4 said:
They need a currency more suited to their needs, and that isn't the EURO and because of the default, they shouldn't be in the EU/Euro never mind NATO.
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Nato? Greece have been in it since 1952 and mostly it's about their geographical location. Whats their membership of Nato to do with anything?
 
ST4 said:
So to rephrase as your question should be What realm would be worth a damn if you sat idly by and watched morally reprehensible criminals drown.
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Surely under your example, they arent criminals until they set foot on our land? Or are you punishing the intent?

So would it'll be fair to take your licence off you all the time as you have the intent to speed again? Of course it wouldn't until you broke the law.
 
Byker28i said:
But then they raise a valid point? The EU bank is generating billions of new money to give to the banks who caused the issues in the first place?
Why not do something good with it and wipe off some of the countries debts instead?

bring back employment, allow the taxes to pay off more debt, generate the economy, rather than just spunk it into financial institutions to give out as bonuses?
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They've been given extentsion after extension, deadline after deadline. Why shouldn't they money raised from the EU bank go back to the countries that have put it there in the first place?

Greece cannot repay what its borrowed, fine, it needs to face the repercussions of that?
 
Byker28i said:
Surely under your example, they arent criminals until they set foot on our land? Or are you punishing the intent?
.
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You welcome in convicted burglars?

Points based system would work better for Britain surely....

The risk of reoffending for a burglar can be high, and my motoring conviction will proclude me from certain jobs (say I wish to be a bus driver) even long after the event as I am seen as a risk having done something many wouldn't have done at all.

Criminal records are kept for a reason and we shouldn't let known criminals in.
 
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ST4 said:
Our one, IMHO. We are not a dumping ground for the worlds problems. More over, there is a legal process to enter the UK either as a migrant or asylum seeker. Circumventing those is illegal. People who will stop at nothing to get here and do anything to be here aren't good people, and we should stop at nothing to prevent people breaching our borders in whatever manner the see fit. There is a legal way of doing things, and an illegal way.

So to rephrase as your question should be What realm would be worth a damn if you sat idly by and watched morally reprehensible criminals drown.
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We aren't going to let people drown to teach other people a lesson. That's just wicked and absurd. You live in a naval town where the boats help international rescue efforts of migrants at sea.
 
Byker28i said:
Nope, unlike some Archangel can put his opinion forward and raise some valid points.

How would you suggest you control those coming into the country especially those coming in as a visitor or on holiday, but with no intention of returning? How do you pick people out on entry to the uk. Would you be prepared for the long queues.
Aren't we reliant on correct information shared between countries?
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My neighbour, who is German, works for border patrol in cologne airport in Germany.....we talk regular about the failure of open borders and his suggestions are basically to operate like the U.S., Canada and Australia among others........basically it is a point system to immigrate so there is a dedicated team to police immigration, for holiday makers they need to get a visa, therefore those who try to enter the country with the idea of staying is drastically cut as you can't get a visa if you have a criminal record etc......as for queues.....these will only exist for those entering the uk on visas not for those who are residents as they will have British passports......

As for co operation between countries, if we all adopt new border controls then it is in the interest to share information......and for countries who don't sign up.....we then need to implement a process where the applicant/tourist has to prove their validity to enter the country......this may mean having to pay a large "deposit" therefore ruling out those who are in poverty and just trying to make their way to us for benefits.......the large deposit can then be returned upon the applicant leaving through passport control at their nominated point of leave.......


It might need a few tweaks but at least it may deter the thousands in Calais and the many other thousands thinking about it.......
 
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Thanks to The Huffington Post, no further discussion is necessary...

o-UKIP-SOUNDBITE-GENERATOR-570.jpg



Steve.
 
Laudrup said:
It's neither practical nor karma. Just cruel and wicked to let people drown. I don't think anybody else wants a UK where that sort of inaction is seen as a good thing. You're on your own there.
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and just to note its that kind of post which gets a poster refered to as a racist bigot ... theres nothing wrong with national pride, but wanting people to die horribly because their skin is a different colour to yours/that they are from a different culture is both racist/biggoted/ and somewhere to the right of hitler.
 
Steve Smith said:
Thanks to The Huffington Post, no further discussion is necessary...

o-UKIP-SOUNDBITE-GENERATOR-570.jpg



Steve.
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you have to love the HP - although imo this was their best work

muslim-spiders.jpg
 
ST4 said:
There are some who agree :D Its alas something that won't happen. Nor will be there be armed guards at calais / dover shooting those found under lorries etc.
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Thankfully.
 
big soft moose said:
you have to love the HP - although imo this was their best work

muslim-spiders.jpg
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Are you suggesting that the headline isn't true?
There are a couple of dodgy looking arachnids in my shed.
 
archangel said:
we talk regular about the failure of open borders and his suggestions are basically to operate like the U.S., Canada and Australia among others........basically it is a point system to immigrate so there is a dedicated team to police immigration, for holiday makers they need to get a visa, therefore those who try to enter the country with the idea of staying is drastically cut as you can't get a visa if you have a criminal record etc......
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Let's use the U.S. as an example of how to control immigration, I mean, they haven't had a problem with illegal immigrants for decades.

oh..wait...
 
Dave1 said:
Let's use the U.S. as an example of how to control immigration, I mean, they haven't had a problem with illegal immigrants for decades.

oh..wait...
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The U.S.system does have it's flaws usually with those who cross the Mexican border but we have the great advantage of being an island therefore we are easier policed......there never will be a perfect solution but I think my suggestion is the best way forward......:D
 
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archangel said:
The U.S.system does have it's flaws usually with those who cross the Mexican border but we have the great advantage of being an island therefore we are easier policed......there never will be a perfect solution but I think my suggestion is the best way forward......:D
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The U.S. have more of a problem with illegals from across the sea than the UK does, the DHS estimated 1.3 million illegal Asian immigrants in the USA in 2011 (on top of the 9 million 'locally sourced' illegals ;)).
 
This thread is a great idea, whenever I need a laugh I can drop in her and chuckle away for hou...minu...seconds.

Tell you what, I'll play, last year apparently 400 people were killed by speeding drivers and 91 illegal immigrants were accused of murder. See were I'm going with this? Seemingly the streets of this country would be much safer if we deported all speeding drivers :)
 
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big soft moose said:
and just to note its that kind of post which gets a poster refered to as a racist bigot ... theres nothing wrong with national pride, but wanting people to die horribly because their skin is a different colour to yours/that they are from a different culture is both racist/biggoted/ and somewhere to the right of hitler.
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Will you please show me where I said I wanted people to die horribly because their skin is a different colour and/or they are from a different culture.

It's posts like this that get you called a troll.

If you actually read what I said rather than typed out your version of what you think I typed I said the following. I have no issue with foreigners or their customs. I even said diversity was a good thing. I've even got friends with skin darker than my own.

However, what I said is what we should do to those found ILLEGALLY breaching OUR BORDERS. Not asylum seekers, not legal immigrants but those hell bent on getting here are evading border control. Those caught breaking in without regard for seeking asylum or going through immigration control should be dealt with very severely and those who get into trouble coming here illegally shouldn't be assisted.

You'll probably manage to misconstrue that but let it be said my view is clear to see for those who read what I write.
 
jakeblu said:
This thread is a great idea, whenever I need a laugh I can drop in her and chuckle away for hou...minu...seconds.

Tell you what, I'll play, last year apparently 400 people were killed by speeding drivers and 91 illegal immigrants were accused of murder. See were I'm going with this? Seemingly the streets of this country would be much safer if we deported all speeding drivers :)
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Ones intentional through murder, speeding drivers don't mean it. Big difference. Ones an accident, ones not.

Given the number of actual speeding events that happen that's a minuscule amount.

How many people die from alcohol related deaths or smoking. Perhaps we should deport them?

How many deaths are caused through drug abuse and drug related crime?
 
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archangel said:
The U.S.system does have it's flaws usually with those who cross the Mexican border but we have the great advantage of being an island therefore we are easier policed......there never will be a perfect solution but I think my suggestion is the best way forward......:D
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IMHO if the Americans shot illegals they caught in the act of breaching their borders or even illegals in the USA, they'd find the problem would soon go away ;)
 
Intentionally breaking the limit at breakneck speeds and killing someone isn't accidental.
 
ST4 said:
IMHO if the Americans shot illegals they caught in the act of breaching their borders or even illegals in the USA, they'd find the problem would soon go away ;)
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Shoot them.
Always it's shoot them.
 
Immigration: As I said, not sure the onus should be on a single state, we need to have a joint force (like we have for straight cucumbers?).
Immigrants on benefit: The only benefit they should get is NHS treatment for contagious disease but will be chargeable back to the original state.
Ebola: the trouble with genetically engineering viruses is we don't fully understand the entire code only the top level.
Immigration & Ebola: My friend came in from America and Heathrow was very busy. They stopped the Ebola screening to let people through quicker.

http://litreactor.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/header/images/column/headers/ill-eagles.jpg
 
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viv1969 said:
Intentionally breaking the limit at breakneck speeds and killing someone isn't accidental.
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Yes it is.

Given the outcome of a collision at such speeds is death, you'd have to prove the driver wished to kill himself as the likelihood of death in the event of a 100mph plus crash is deaths. You'd also have to prove the collision/ leaving the road was also intentional and the desired effect was death not only to others but to the driver.

As in the cases where drivers survive these things they say it wasn't their intention and thus as the collision/leaving the road etc wasn't the intention the outcome was therefore unintentional hence the word accident.

Edited as autocorrect on phones made a mess of this
HTH.
 
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I tried to look up the word bigot it came back Gillian Duffy??
 
ST4 said:
Yes it is.

Given the outcome of a collision at such speeds is death, you'd have to prove the driver wished to kill himself as the likelihood of death in the event of a 100mph plus crash is deaths. You'd also have to prove the collision, leaving the road was also intentional and the desired effect was death not only to others but to the driver.

As in the cases where drivers survive these things they say it wasn't their intention and thus as the collision, leaving the road etc wasn't intention the outcome was intentional hence the word accident.

HTH.
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Righty oh.
 
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