The official (Bah Humbug) Olympics thread

[MWHCVT]

As I said earlier only the UK and the Germans can pump the cash into elite sprint cycling to produce their own bikes, that's a barrier to entry for other federations. The playing field isn't level. Participation in it at a serious level is always going to be difficult if you can't get to one of the 3 velodromes in the UK.

I'm sorry but that is utter tosh, there are many country's that can afford to spend what we spend, in fact I think the smaller list would be the countries that cannot afford it :shake:

Your point is becoming more laboured with every post at the moment

 

[boyfalldown]

I'm sorry but that is utter tosh, there are many country's that can afford to spend what we spend, in fact I think the smaller list would be the countries that cannot afford it :shake:

Your point is becoming more laboured with every post at the moment

not only is his point complete and utter tosh it also completely misses the point that the bikes used in the Olympics have to be available to buy commercially. Even if you couldn't or didn't want the R & D spend, you could just go and buy a new one from the British team :shrug: to compete at that level

 

[big soft moose]

Rather like I can cherry pick bad examples of people that join internet forums, many many do it, its accessible to nearly all, regardless of their background, education, financial position.... but I guess it's difficult to show their skills in the message boards chosen area as participation is so high....so they chose to use it to try and drag everyone down to their own argumentative base level.



So, cheerio grumpies thread, I am off back to the cheerful corner, but I am sure there will be another mod along shortly if you need one

I think I shall follow you (in a non stalking type way ), theres nothing more I can say here without getting kelly p'd at me for bickering

 

[acetone]

not only is his point complete and utter tosh it also completely misses the point that the bikes used in the Olympics have to be available to buy commercially. Even if you couldn't or didn't want the R & D spend, you could just go and buy a new one from the British team :shrug: to compete at that level

That's a very good point, but his argument seems to be there isn't a level playing field in sport, well of course not.

Lets stop those who live at altitude, stop those who live in places with year round warm weather,any country that has a coast line should be out, that's a sailing advantage over the landlocked, countries that have over the average population have more people to choses from , the list could go on and on.

 

[Laudrup]

I'm sorry but that is utter tosh, there are many country's that can afford to spend what we spend, in fact I think the smaller list would be the countries that cannot afford it :shake:

Your point is becoming more laboured with every post at the moment

Poland built their own velodrome which is now so much in arrears they were threatened with the lights and heat being turned off. The American's sent a firefighter who lives 120 miles from a velodrome. Testing and designing your own equipment is going to put you at an advantage in a sport this close to call.

not only is his point complete and utter tosh it also completely misses the point that the bikes used in the Olympics have to be available to buy commercially. Even if you couldn't or didn't want the R & D spend, you could just go and buy a new one from the British team :shrug: to compete at that level

Only since 2010, and even then there has been a 9 month period of grace and long lead times to buy any of it. All the while Team GB can head down the Mercedes-AMG-Petronas wind tunnel. It's a human powered F1. Then you have the clothing technology developed at huge cost.

Take the Union flag glasses off and see for yourself.

 

[Laudrup]

That's a very good point, but his argument seems to be there isn't a level playing field in sport, well of course not.

Lets stop those who live at altitude, stop those who live in places with year round warm weather,any country that has a coast line should be out, that's a sailing advantage over the landlocked, countries that have over the average population have more people to choses from , the list could go on and on.

You can go and train at Iten in Kenya to acclimatise to the atmosphere, many, many do. Again I said the playing field isn't level in cycling which your strawman argument has extrapolated to all sport.

 

[Yv]

....good grief, is he still arguing for communism in world sport......


**wonders off to find my tin foil helmet and the rusty ladies shopper bike with basket**

 

[acetone]

The American's sent a firefighter who lives 120 miles from a velodrome.

Those Americas who live in the middle states travel 120 miles to do the weekly shop, it may sound a long way to us here in the UK and makes a good TV sound bite, but it's nothing really.


But the point goes back to an earlier post , the USA choose not to spend money on cycling we did, but look how many olympic pools the USA have, and that's reflected in the swimming medals they won. All this money you say we spent on r&d, yet we are still using the same actual wheels from Athens 2004.

 

[acetone]

You can go and train at Iten in Kenya to acclimatise to the atmosphere, many, many do. Again I said the playing field isn't level in cycling which your strawman argument has extrapolated to all sport.

You can only go to Kenya if you can afford it, so your argument about money having an advantage in cycling holds true for running too, The playing field isn't level in ANY sport, you can and will always find some reason why one country has an advantage over another.

 

[boyfalldown]

Only since 2010, and even then there has been a 9 month period of grace and long lead times to buy any of it. All the while Team GB can head down the Mercedes-AMG-Petronas wind tunnel. It's a human powered F1. Then you have the clothing technology developed at huge cost.

Take the Union flag glasses off and see for yourself.

so what you mean is the british did so well in the Velodrome cause they had the best bikes?......err no. The headline in L'Equip yesterday suggested they did so well because the 'bikes had round wheels' after a somewhat sarcastic comment from one of the coaches. Your arguments make as much sense.

More years ago then I care to remember I knew one of the lads who's just one a gold in the canoe slalom. We were in the same club. I remember he built his own boat, used to train hard every night making the very best of the limited facilities available and worked incredibly hard and was exceptionally focused.He had good support but that was a result of his fantastic dedication rather then being able to throw money at things. That's what wins you a gold medal, not as you seem to think a privileged upbringing

 

[MWHCVT]

Poland built their own velodrome which is now so much in arrears they were threatened with the lights and heat being turned off. The American's sent a firefighter who lives 120 miles from a velodrome. Testing and designing your own equipment is going to put you at an advantage in a sport this close to call.

Not managed to find any link about polish issues so care to provide one? though frankly I'm sorry to say this but there would have been better off spending the money on having there team with the best equipment and having them in country with the facilities, that's if there financial issues are factual as yet again you've come out with something without providing a link to back up what you've said :shake:

 

[Laudrup]

Those Americas who live in the middle states travel 120 miles to do the weekly shop, it may sound a long way to us here in the UK and makes a good TV sound bite, but it's nothing really.


But the point goes back to an earlier post , the USA choose not to spend money on cycling we did, but look how many olympic pools the USA have, and that's reflected in the swimming medals they won. All this money you say we spent on r&d, yet we are still using the same actual wheels from Athens 2004.

Jimmy Watkins lives in Bakersfield, California. I'd highly doubt he has to travel 120 miles to get to a shop in a city with a population of 350,000, not sure what people doing their shopping in different states matters anyway? What might impact on his ability to get to the the distant velodrome is the fact he's a firefighter.

 

[MWHCVT]

....good grief, is he still arguing for communism in world sport......


**wonders off to find my tin foil helmet and the rusty ladies shopper bike with basket**

Indeed though I need to get my tin foil hat, as I must have been a naughty boy and not even realise it, I've been visited by an admin

 

[MWHCVT]

Jimmy Watkins lives in Bakersfield, California. I'd highly doubt he has to travel 120 miles to get to a shop in a city with a population of 350,000, not sure what people doing their shopping in different states matters anyway? What might impact on his ability to get to the the distant velodrome is the fact he's a firefighter.

And are you aware that the state of California has a GDP that is greater than most countries? they can afford to do anything they wish to fund virtually so it's a funding choice and that's it when it comes to there sports...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

 

[neil_g]

Football reflects society pretty well. Why do you think it is the most popular sport? Because everyone can play it. You don't need expensive things like sculls, horses and bikes. It's a sport for all walks of life, not the privileged few.

horse riding lessons can often be found for less than the cost of hiring a 5-a-side pitch.

Do you have a link for that? I provided links and do you think he pays for that, I'd be willing to bet that any and all equipment he uses is brought and paid for by sponsors. If young people show promise of being the best you can bet they pick up sponsors quickly too, not to mention the millions that are invested in the form of lottery funds in grass routes sports.

exactly. in ALL sports if you show good potential and start winning regional then national events more and more sponsors come on board offering kit and bikes and rides of horses etc.

 

[kelack]

....good grief, is he still arguing for communism in world sport......

**wonders off to find my tin foil helmet and the rusty ladies shopper bike with basket**

I think they will all argue for the sake of it sometimes....

Seems to be going round in circles. Why don't you all agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Yv, save some foil for me

 

[Laudrup]

Not managed to find any link about polish issues so care to provide one? though frankly I'm sorry to say this but there would have been better off spending the money on having there team with the best equipment and having them in country with the facilities, that's if there financial issues are factual as yet again you've come out with something without providing a link to back up what you've said :shake:

The BGZ Arena in Pruszkow, a modern velodrome completed in 2008 at a cost of PLN 92 mln, is facing the prospect of being repossessed and sold at a fraction of its value to the highest bidder. The debacle is a result of the World Track Cycling Championships held there three years ago.

In order to meet the criteria of the International additional work had to be done to the hall at a cost of PLN 5.3 mln. “After the work was done, the Ministry of Sport withdrew its declaration of support for the investment and we were left with an unpaid bill,” explained Tadeusz Rybak, managing director of the constructor, Mostostal Pulawy.

An agreement was reached in court last year, by which payment was rescheduled over five years. However, the document went unsigned by the Polish Cycling Federation, and shortly after the authorities at the federation changed. The current president, Waclaw Skarul, is refusing to sign because he claims the federation can’t afford it. The federation is drowning in debt and this year has seen its budget from the sports ministry cut by PLN 3 mln.

Another argument eviscerated.

 

[Laudrup]

I think they will all argue for the sake of it sometimes....

Seems to be going round in circles. Why don't you all agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Yv, save some foil for me

Ovals really.

 

[Laudrup]

horse riding lessons can often be found for less than the cost of hiring a 5-a-side pitch.



exactly. in ALL sports if you show good potential and start winning regional then national events more and more sponsors come on board offering kit and bikes and rides of horses etc.

I pay £4 to use a 5 a side pitch, given the cost is split between 10. Mass participation for little money. As for sponsorship, it can be difficult even for successful national teams.

 

[MWHCVT]

I think they will all argue for the sake of it sometimes....

Seems to be going round in circles. Why don't you all agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Yv, save some foil for me

Wanna argue about that as I don't think we all like to argue, I think it more a case of in this instance a certain individual and a entire chip shop fully of chips on his shoulder and when trying to prove his case refuses to back up sweeping statements with an links to back up his suppositions

 

[MWHCVT]

Another argument eviscerated.

And a link so we can all read the entire news piece?

As for sponsorship, it can be difficult even for successful national teams.

Really, when I used to be involved in sponsorship for a grass roots rugby team we managed to get plenty of sponsors it was work that needed to be done to get it but we still managed...

 

[acetone]

So only Britain and Germany can afford or are willing to pay for the best bikes, lets have a look at this years world championship winners

There are 8 individual titles not held by a Brit or German,

Grégory Baugé France
Michael Hepburn Australia
Cameron Meyer Australia
Glenn O'Shea Australia
Anna Meares Australia
Alison Shanks New Zealand
Katarzyna Pawłowska Poland
Anastasia Chulkova Russia

 

[Laudrup]

You can only go to Kenya if you can afford it, so your argument about money having an advantage in cycling holds true for running too, The playing field isn't level in ANY sport, you can and will always find some reason why one country has an advantage over another.

You are comparing going to Kenya and running with spending £3,000 a day just testing bike helmets in a wind tunnel? A country where the GDP is only £1,100. Seems a pretty fair and logical comparison.

 

[MWHCVT]

Anyway, yet again I've ventured into OOF and been reminded why I don't like to come in here too often, there are too many people who like to spend there time around here and not enough time in the rest of the forum :shake: I think I'm going to impose a ban on myself from this sub forum for a while

 

[kelack]

We can help with that

 

[MWHCVT]

We can help with that

I'm sure you could Kelly but I'll look after myself for know have fun in here

 

[Laudrup]

And a link so we can all read the entire news piece?

http://www.newpolandexpress.pl/polish_news_story-4085-.php

I won't ask you to back up your claims.

Really, when I used to be involved in sponsorship for a grass roots rugby team we managed to get plenty of sponsors it was work that needed to be done to get it but we still managed...

And this rugby team achieved how much in sponsorship and competed internationally at which events?

 

[Laudrup]

So only Britain and Germany can afford or are willing to pay for the best bikes, lets have a look at this years world championship winners

There are 8 individual titles not held by a Brit or German,

Grégory Baugé France
Michael Hepburn Australia
Cameron Meyer Australia
Glenn O'Shea Australia
Anna Meares Australia
Alison Shanks New Zealand
Katarzyna Pawłowska Poland
Anastasia Chulkova Russia

Yet come Olympic time what do you see? Magic wheels?

 

[kelack]

:bang:

 

[big soft moose]

I think they will all argue for the sake of it sometimes....

Seems to be going round in circles. Why don't you all agree to disagree and leave it at that. Yv, save some foil for me

gets my vote - its a shame there isnt a way of the mods locking a thread temporarily for say 24 hours to allow tempers to cool and those who are only here to argue to get bored and head over to the talkcrap forums instead

 

[Laudrup]

This is the bah humbug thread, if you don't like it why not go to the Olympic event thread?

 

[big soft moose]

the bah humbug thread was supposed to be a light hearted thread for those who have issues about the olympics - as it was originally. It was not intended to be a platform for an extended slanging match about whether sport is elitist.

so as kelly suggests lets all just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[kelack]

Kelly

 

[Laudrup]

With all these unpleasantries subsiding I can finally focus my attention on the other irksome factors of these games. Jessica Ennis winning the gold medal in the heptathlon
(one of the lesser medals) and being the face of the games seems more to do with her ability to become photogenic than being a jack of all trades and master of none. Sir Steve Redgrave's 5 gold medals seem to be mentioned ad nauseum as well, did he ever win a solo Olympic gold?

 

[big soft moose]

With all these unpleasantries subsiding I can finally focus my attention on the other irksome factors of these games. Jessica Ennis winning the gold medal in the heptathlon
(one of the lesser medals) and being the face of the games seems more to do with her ability to become photogenic than being a jack of all trades and master of none. Sir Steve Redgrave's 5 gold medals seem to be mentioned ad nauseum as well, did he ever win a solo Olympic gold?

says who ?

Olympic gold is olympic gold - and she didnt win it because she's pretty - she won it through ability, and your decription jack of all trades master of none is (probably deliberately) offensive - how many olympic gold medals have you won ?

 

[neil_g]

With all these unpleasantries subsiding I can finally focus my attention on the other irksome factors of these games. Jessica Ennis winning the gold medal in the heptathlon
(one of the lesser medals) and being the face of the games seems more to do with her ability to become photogenic than being a jack of all trades and master of none. Sir Steve Redgrave's 5 gold medals seem to be mentioned ad nauseum as well, did he ever win a solo Olympic gold?

good grief.

im out.

 

[big soft moose]

one last note steve's gold medals of course werent solo because he generally raced with mathew pinscent in a pair - or with pinscent and the searles in a four - but really so what ?

 

[DorsetDude]

good grief.

im out.

Indeed. I think the word 'troll' comes to mind

 

[Neil B]

Well I've managed to not see any of it so far and have spent loads of extra time out with the camera so it's not all bad

 

[Laudrup]

says who ?

Olympic gold is olympic gold - and she didnt win it because she's pretty - she won it through ability, and your decription jack of all trades master of none is (probably deliberately) offensive - how many olympic gold medals have you won ?

Name the 2008 Beijing female heptathlon winner without googling it. Even name what country she came from. You can't can you? That's my point. It's an event where the competitors couldn't get close to the throwing world records if they shot the javelin out a bazooka or beat the middle distance running records if they were on roller skates. The hurdles is closer, but even then the heptathlon couldn't be described as a blue ribbon event.

Jessica Ennis being lovely and attractive and marketable is her main asset, not the heptathlon glory.