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indeed they are and they show that 68% of team GB medals so far have been won by people with a state school background, not really a ringing endorsement of the elitist argument
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indeed they are and they show that 68% of team GB medals so far have been won by people with a state school background, not really a ringing endorsement of the elitist argument
I didn't think you'd put me on ignore. These figures quoted were from the Beijing games in 2008 as I said earlier when all was said and done.
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whiteflyer
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As I stated earlier I represented Great Britain in canoeing back in the late 70s, and now a little family history.
My dad started work at 14 in the cotton mill, he left to become a door to door salesman for Betterware, and then on to work as a centre lathe tuner in a factory.
At the age of 11 my mum died, leaving dad alone to bring up 2 young boys. My brother and I both went to the local primary school, were my brother passed his 11 plus so he could go to grammar school and then on to uni for a maths degree (did a sandwich course work for a company during none term time )
I went to the local secondary modern school, but we both join the scout. It was here that I was introduced to canoeing, at first I just use the scouts equipment, but later we made a home made canoe just for me.
After years of hard work by me and sacrifices by my dad (no holidays, no pub, no smoking) I was luckily selected to represent our country.
Could somebody please tell me at what point I had an elitist upbringing, cause I can't remember it.
To say you only get to the top with money is very insulting to me and the many many working class people who have put the effort in to make something of themsevles. What I did not do is sit at home, thinking everyone else has it better and easier than I do, I got off my backside and did something.
My dad started work at 14 in the cotton mill, he left to become a door to door salesman for Betterware, and then on to work as a centre lathe tuner in a factory.
At the age of 11 my mum died, leaving dad alone to bring up 2 young boys. My brother and I both went to the local primary school, were my brother passed his 11 plus so he could go to grammar school and then on to uni for a maths degree (did a sandwich course work for a company during none term time )
I went to the local secondary modern school, but we both join the scout. It was here that I was introduced to canoeing, at first I just use the scouts equipment, but later we made a home made canoe just for me.
After years of hard work by me and sacrifices by my dad (no holidays, no pub, no smoking) I was luckily selected to represent our country.
Could somebody please tell me at what point I had an elitist upbringing, cause I can't remember it.
To say you only get to the top with money is very insulting to me and the many many working class people who have put the effort in to make something of themsevles. What I did not do is sit at home, thinking everyone else has it better and easier than I do, I got off my backside and did something.
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actually you are on ignore - but theres a horrible fascination that leads to clicking view post.
the 50% figure is indeed from 2008 - but don't you think it might be more pertinent to consider the figures from this olympics (which i quoted from the BBC website) - as they more accurately reflect the benefit of the recent investment in making more sports accessible to all.
the 50% figure is indeed from 2008 - but don't you think it might be more pertinent to consider the figures from this olympics (which i quoted from the BBC website) - as they more accurately reflect the benefit of the recent investment in making more sports accessible to all.
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Did I say his parents weren't wealthy? I said that the wealth was nothing to do with his success in the Equestrian world and Panther has already explained how you don't have to spend lots of money to progress in equestrianism. Saying that she did it Not to win an Olympic gold is a bit daft considering she already said that she gave it up because she moved away.
But, as Kelly says, we should stop bickering else I'll be on staffroom bin duty again.
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which as i said earlier is one reason why public school gives you an edge - because they still imbue those qualities - a lot of state schools are too worried about inclusivity to play a lot of competitive sport, prefering instead no doubt to have interactive tofu knitting copperatives and group hug sessions.
which doesnt prepare the pupils well for either sport or life in general
cambsno
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Well said, but unfortunately true.
Rather defeats the purpose of ignore? Anyway, we haven't finished with this Olympics yet, best to let the dust settle and then look at it.
Elitist in a financial aspect, a barrier to entry, not their level of competition.
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havent we already said that there are many initiatives already in place to allow access to many of your so called 'elitist' sports. so that it is not a barrier to entry, and (as is evident by the figures from this olympics) that they are working
You forgot to mention the private schools also encourage you to climb on your desk and recite O Captain! My Captain! That's the real difference.
It's a step in the right direction, but still not enough.
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perhaps what we need to do to make the olympics more inclusive and less elitist is to make the events more relevant to the yoof of today
for example
hurdling - replace the hurdles with privet hedges and garden fences, all competitors to carry a 32" LCD TV, and a police dog to be released behind each lane ten seconds after the starting gun.
Fencing - competitors have to run out of the stadium carrying said TV, find a dodgy pub, swap the TV for cash, find a dealer and shoot up and then return to the stadium before they get too high to move.
Shot putt - shot to be replaced with a petrol bomb
Cross country - to be run over an urban course, with competitors pursued by police cars and helicopters
The very 'elitist' rowing and sailing events to be replaced entirely by a driving event where competitors have to twoc a redtop corsa and then flee from the police driving as dangerously as possible, with points given for lack of technical merit, and artistic interpretation
equestrian to be replaced by motorcycling - the even being pretty much the same as the above but on two wheels rather than four.
Shooting - 2 disciplines a) Converted Brocock in which competitors shoot a combat course with targets dressed as armed police - extra points are given for competing the course without your shonkily converted air pistol blowing up in your face b) sawn off - with targets dressed as bank tellers.
At the end of the games the flame to be extinguished by a police water canon , while cops armed with asps and pepper spray attempt to arrest as many competiors as possible.
for example
hurdling - replace the hurdles with privet hedges and garden fences, all competitors to carry a 32" LCD TV, and a police dog to be released behind each lane ten seconds after the starting gun.
Fencing - competitors have to run out of the stadium carrying said TV, find a dodgy pub, swap the TV for cash, find a dealer and shoot up and then return to the stadium before they get too high to move.
Shot putt - shot to be replaced with a petrol bomb
Cross country - to be run over an urban course, with competitors pursued by police cars and helicopters
The very 'elitist' rowing and sailing events to be replaced entirely by a driving event where competitors have to twoc a redtop corsa and then flee from the police driving as dangerously as possible, with points given for lack of technical merit, and artistic interpretation
equestrian to be replaced by motorcycling - the even being pretty much the same as the above but on two wheels rather than four.
Shooting - 2 disciplines a) Converted Brocock in which competitors shoot a combat course with targets dressed as armed police - extra points are given for competing the course without your shonkily converted air pistol blowing up in your face b) sawn off - with targets dressed as bank tellers.
At the end of the games the flame to be extinguished by a police water canon , while cops armed with asps and pepper spray attempt to arrest as many competiors as possible.
Watch out, The Viz might sue you for plagiarism.
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whiteflyer
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Lets get to the point Laudrup wants a system where talent, hard work and dedication are not rewarded, he wants a system were ONLY those from the inner city slums are selected to represent our country, because everyone else has only made it by paying their way to the top.
The fact which has been pointed out many times, that there is little to no cost involved to start in the vast majority of sports is just wrong in his mind and nothing or nobody will knock the bloody big chip of his shoulder.
As he has been unable to reply to my post #364 I shall now no longer participate in this thread.
The fact which has been pointed out many times, that there is little to no cost involved to start in the vast majority of sports is just wrong in his mind and nothing or nobody will knock the bloody big chip of his shoulder.
As he has been unable to reply to my post #364 I shall now no longer participate in this thread.
Your exception only proves the rule though. You or your family had to sacrifice, those with enough wealth don't have to sacrifice either at all or as much to compete in elitist minority sports. Level the playing field like football for example and you'll mirror society more closely.
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oh the irony, you choose the one sport with more money than it knows what to do with, participants that rarely do anything to set a good example to young kids, gets more coverage than the average person of ANY background should ever have to stomach on every type of media available, and players that seem to have totally lost any pride in wearing the shirt on their backs.... if THAT is what you want as a sporting ideal Laudrup, you can keep it, give me the rowers, equestrians, cyclists, etc...and thats from a working class girl from the north who's parents both worked full time just so i could have a 1 hour horse riding lesson every week and week in a caravan in Wales once a year.oh yes, and of course, it's also the sport that is doing SO much to level the playing field that we can't even manage to produce a team that can perform at the highest level from the entire british isles, and certainly not in England.... the field is SO level, none are actually rising above it...
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oh yes, and of course, it's also the sport that is doing SO much to level the playing field that we can't even manage to produce a team that can perform at the highest level from the entire british isles, and certainly not in England.... the field is SO level, none are actually rising above it...
Football reflects society pretty well. Why do you think it is the most popular sport? Because everyone can play it. You don't need expensive things like sculls, horses and bikes. It's a sport for all walks of life, not the privileged few.
You can cherry pick bad examples from any sport to use it against them, football being the most popular it'll have more instances. As for a team capable of winning the world cup etc it's much more difficult to win in a highly competitive sport that has a high rate of participation than something like rowing.
The big players in football earn the big money, just like Usain Bolt earning $2 million dollars a second in his 100m final or Michael Phelps being worth $40 million+. Many football players do good work, but it doesn't sell newspapers as well as them looking a bit drunk on holiday. The obsession with holding professional footballers to a higher standard than others is ridiculously pious.
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Er ... money! Marketing!!
Why do you think?
Equally why do you think it isn't the most popular sport on the impoverished Indian subcontinent?
Football is still very popular there, a stronger Indian national team and more investment like cricket has would help too. It's a sport made for places like India. Little money needed for equipment and a career path from rags to riches.
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Rather like I can cherry pick bad examples of people that join internet forums, many many do it, its accessible to nearly all, regardless of their background, education, financial position.... but I guess it's difficult to show their skills in the message boards chosen area as participation is so high....so they chose to use it to try and drag everyone down to their own argumentative base level.
So, cheerio grumpies thread, I am off back to the cheerful corner, but I am sure there will be another mod along shortly if you need one
acetone
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Football is the most popular sport in the media, I pretty sure that by participation it's not.
We could make tiddly winks popular if we gave it the exposure football gets. Look at darts and snooker, when it had huge amounts of TV coverage, everyone was down the snooker hall and kids could all name Jocky Wilson and Eric Bristow, taken off TV and I doubt most kids could name one current darts player ( I couldn't )
A nice little table from wikipedia, show that if you look at TV coverage and Participation ratios that football comes out very poorly
I doubt the cost of football kit is any less than the cost to join a rowing club and use the free equipment, I don't have children myself but is the cost of soccer boot and strip much less than the cost of a bike (Halfords £109 )
Having has a QUICK look at the thread, there looks to be a mistaken belief by some that you need the super dupper carbon bike to start in the sport, which plainly you don't nor would a beginner need to buy sculls and the like.
We could make tiddly winks popular if we gave it the exposure football gets. Look at darts and snooker, when it had huge amounts of TV coverage, everyone was down the snooker hall and kids could all name Jocky Wilson and Eric Bristow, taken off TV and I doubt most kids could name one current darts player ( I couldn't )
A nice little table from wikipedia, show that if you look at TV coverage and Participation ratios that football comes out very poorly
I doubt the cost of football kit is any less than the cost to join a rowing club and use the free equipment, I don't have children myself but is the cost of soccer boot and strip much less than the cost of a bike (Halfords £109 )
Having has a QUICK look at the thread, there looks to be a mistaken belief by some that you need the super dupper carbon bike to start in the sport, which plainly you don't nor would a beginner need to buy sculls and the like.
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elitist sports that has to be the biggest joke going
Football Kit
BOOTS £195
2 x KIT £124
4 x PL BALLS £230
So a quick add up = £549
Rugby Union
BOOTS £140
2 x KIT £97
4x BALLS £220
So a quick add up = £457
That's comparing the kit's of the winners of the respective top leagues of this country, all of a sudden football is looking a little more elitist to me
Taking the most expensive boots and the balls that are spec. for the respective league
that has to be the biggest joke goingFootball Kit
BOOTS £195
2 x KIT £124
4 x PL BALLS £230
So a quick add up = £549
Rugby Union
BOOTS £140
2 x KIT £97
4x BALLS £220
So a quick add up = £457
That's comparing the kit's of the winners of the respective top leagues of this country, all of a sudden football is looking a little more elitist to me
Taking the most expensive boots and the balls that are spec. for the respective league
Rather like I can cherry pick bad examples of people that join internet forums, many many do it, its accessible to nearly all, regardless of their background, education, financial position.... but I guess it's difficult to show their skills in the message boards chosen area as participation is so high....so they chose to use it to try and drag everyone down to their own argumentative base level.
So, cheerio grumpies thread, I am off back to the cheerful corner, but I am sure there will be another mod along shortly if you need one
Well technically with 7+ billion people in the world and only 2 billion having internet access you are calling me part of the elite. I don't know whether I should be embarrassed, proud or embark on some self-flagellation. Maybe all three.
Long live the bah humbug thread though.
elitist sports
Football Kit
BOOTS £195
2 x KIT £124
4 x PL BALLS £230
So a quick add up = £549
Rugby Union
BOOTS £140
2 x KIT £97
4x BALLS £220
So a quick add up = £457
That's comparing the kit's of the winners of the respective top leagues of this country, all of a sudden football is looking a little more elitist to me
Taking the most expensive boots and the balls that are spec. for the respective league
You couldn't buy a bolt on Sir Chris Hoy's bike for £500.
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Do you have a link for that? I provided links
and do you think he pays for that, I'd be willing to bet that any and all equipment he uses is brought and paid for by sponsors. If young people show promise of being the best you can bet they pick up sponsors quickly too, not to mention the millions that are invested in the form of lottery funds in grass routes sports.I come from a Rugby Union background even as the lowest level of club we used to manage to get local companies to sponsor us, as a club we would invest every penny of operating surplus into improving sport for both current and potential players, and knowing members of all out local clubs that was and still is the ethos of all our local clubs
acetone
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I went to the same site as Matthew and looked for the cheapest junior kit I could find and 1 pair of boots, 1 shirt (Ipswich town) 1 pair of shorts and a ball came to £85.96 ( picked a size 5 ball whatever that means)
1 Junior road racing bike £119, so £33 more to start in the elitist sport, mind you that doesn't take into account how long it will take for a young child to grow out of a pair of boot and the time before he/she grows out of a bike.
1 Junior road racing bike £119, so £33 more to start in the elitist sport, mind you that doesn't take into account how long it will take for a young child to grow out of a pair of boot and the time before he/she grows out of a bike.
acetone
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I very much doubt he actually owns the bikes, I did hear Boardman say today that the wheels they are using at the games are the same ones from Athens.
To say the cost of an Olympic bike is a barrier to someone starting in cycling, is like saying you can't play football because you don't have access to the Old Trafford pitch.
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Football is the most popular sport in the media, I pretty sure that by participation it's not.
We could make tiddly winks popular if we gave it the exposure football gets. Look at darts and snooker, when it had huge amounts of TV coverage, everyone was down the snooker hall and kids could all name Jocky Wilson and Eric Bristow, taken off TV and I doubt most kids could name one current darts player ( I couldn't )
A nice little table from wikipedia, show that if you look at TV coverage and Participation ratios that football comes out very poorly
I doubt the cost of football kit is any less than the cost to join a rowing club and use the free equipment, I don't have children myself but is the cost of soccer boot and strip much less than the cost of a bike (Halfords £109 )
Having has a QUICK look at the thread, there looks to be a mistaken belief by some that you need the super dupper carbon bike to start in the sport, which plainly you don't nor would a beginner need to buy sculls and the like.
You just posted a table that shows it is the most participated in though, well with people aged 15+ anyway. Unless you are classing gym as a sport? As for tiddlywinks you could put it on 24 hours a day and it wouldn't come close to football.
You can play football in your trainers and with a £10 quid ball from ASDA. You don't need racing bikes and access to a river and boat fees.
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Indeed for honesty sake I went for the pricey stuff based on the argument that we were talking about elitist sports, it's like anything you can have cheaper or you can also go to the other end and have very expensive
The cost of the bikes is the barrier that other racing federations are finding hard to compete with, never mind rolling up on your rickety Apollo from Halfords ringing your bell. Football you can have £20 or £200 boots, it won't make a difference.
acetone
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What that table shows is the with mass TV coverage 10% play football, but with very little TV coverage 9% swim, the argument is that if very single day of the week in the season TV shows a swim meet between clubs across the country and the back-pages of papers had the swim league tables, and stories about the swimmers, and never reported football, then kids would want to emulate the swimmers.
It's the chicken and egg situation, which comes first, is it on TV because it's popular or is it popular because it's on TV. I'd love to see some stats on the number of people taking up ballroom/sequence dancing now it's back on weekly TV.
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So, as the run up to the games gather speed,
we are all bound to have an opinion one way or another on the games.
Do you feel that its a waste of time and money?
Or can't you just generally be arsed to watch it,
knowing damn well that its going to displace at least one of your favourite reality shows,
such as ice skating on a celebrity in the jungle.
Well, this is the place to have a whinge and a bitch
Not a fan, but as someone who has radio 2 on whilst working, always pleased to hear when they announce another medal for team GB. Other than that I don't really give a flying ****, I won't miss it when it's gone, but I do wish all of the GB contestants good luck. May not be my thing, but it is theirs.
Will be glad when BBC TV return to normal sh** though.
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Well there are road racing bikes here from as little as £45 let's face it do you honestly think that all if any of the top people in the sport started out on multiple thousand pound bespoke bikes?
acetone
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Hang on you were arguing that cost was a barrier to people participating in certain sports, you've change now to is a barrier to winning the olympics.
Of course money helps win at the top level and each country decides what it's funding priorities are. Britain feels the cycling is worth the investment to win lots of medals, other counties will pick other sports, as an example Jamaica wanted to do well in the 2011 world netball championships so they spent $45 million funding the team.
You just can't make the argument that a person can't afford to start in a sport because they haven't the funds to buy the very best equipment, that would be saying you can't start in motor racing unless you have a £50million a year budget like an F1 team.
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As I said earlier only the UK and the Germans can pump the cash into elite sprint cycling to produce their own bikes, that's a barrier to entry for other federations. The playing field isn't level. Participation in it at a serious level is always going to be difficult if you can't get to one of the 3 velodromes in the UK.
In F1 the teams with the most R&D budget blitz the races, like the UK in the cycling. They can afford wind tunnel time, the best engineers to design the bikes or materials. As for cost get involved in even low level motorsport and see how long it takes to bankrupt you.
Your point about the Jamaicans spending $45 million on their netball team is in Jamaican dollars (£323,000). Even that was slashed by 70%.