The great TP election thread

viv1969 said:
You've just condemned my friends and family to death.

I pity you.

I'm sure you'll come up with some (less than) witty reposte....but my pity for you and anyone associated with you remains.
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Condemned to death. Death is a certaintity. An absolute. I haven't condemned anyone to it. But I question the merits of delaying the inevitble when there is realistically no hope of delaying the inevitable other than for a very short time with a lot of pain and discomfort.

You are free to your views on the subject, and me mine. I don't have pity, contempt or anything for you as I do not know you personally. Just an different opinion on a particular subject and as I doubt we will ever cross paths you don't really feature in my thoughts. Sorry.
 
ST4 said:
Condemned to death. Death is a certaintity. An absolute. I haven't condemned anyone to it. But I question the merits of delaying the inevitble when there is realistically no hope of delaying the inevitable other than for a very short time with a lot of pain and discomfort.

You are free to your views on the subject, and me mine. I don't have pity, contempt or anything for you as I do not know you personally. Just an different opinion on a particular subject and as I doubt we will ever cross paths you don't really feature in my thoughts. Sorry.
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Clearly not true.

But with a simple answer, under your treatment rules, would my examples have received their life saving treatment or not?
 
viv1969 said:
Clearly not true.
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I wouldn't try to validate your life by thinking otherwise

viv1969 said:
But with a simple answer, under your treatment rules, would my examples have received their life saving treatment or not?
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I'm not a doctor, and would try to consider the whole facts for saying for sure rather than your short anecdotes but all would have as the odds of the treatment extending the life for a meaningful duration at a good quality was favourable.
 
ST4 said:
I wouldn't try to validate your life by thinking otherwise



I'm not a doctor, and would try to consider the whole facts for saying for sure rather than your short anecdotes but all would have as the odds of the treatment extending the life for a meaningful duration at a good quality was favourable.
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Ok you're going to have to try that again in English.
 
ST4 said:
resorting to personal insults again. I don't see why the name of the actual journalist matters either.

I don't know why I stoop so low as to to engage with conversation with you when the ignore feature is there.
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You would see why if you found out who it was. ;)
Try just a little bit to think instead of to react. It's what separates us from the animals. :)

Whereas 'reaction' is what forces the sales of tacky newspapers. Go on, do some research, blush, come back and we'll have a discussion about how many kitchens Ed's got, and Dave, and ***** ohh nearly spoiled it :D
 
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ST4 said:
if a private sector company goes bust and fails its leaders lose their jobs and it goes bust. If a public sector body doesn't do well they say "ah fck it, we will ask for more budget for next year and Gordy Cloon will print money and chuck it at us"...
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unless its a bank in which case it gets bailed out by the tax payer and its leaders awards themselves huge bonuses
 
ST4 said:
Condemned to death. Death is a certaintity. An absolute. I haven't condemned anyone to it. But I question the merits of delaying the inevitble when there is realistically no hope of delaying the inevitable other than for a very short time with a lot of pain and discomfort.
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So where is the line drawn? If someone has a serious heart attack do u bother to treat, or a serious stroke? What if someone is in a coma, do u just turn off? If you are 90 do u bother to treat as they will probably die soon anyway?
 
cambsno said:
So where is the line drawn? If someone has a serious heart attack do u bother to treat, or a serious stroke? What if someone is in a coma, do u just turn off? If you are 90 do u bother to treat as they will probably die soon anyway?
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I don't know exactly where, but further towards the direction I think than where it is presently. Heart attacks are treatable as usually if they are survived the person can live a long time afterwards at a decent qualility. Someone left brain dead with very little odds of living a passable standard of life, I'd switch off. It sounds callous, but at 90 if the healthcare given will only extend life by 6 months then I wouldn't treat, if it could buy say 2-3yrs maybe.
 
I can't say I'm in agreement that we shouldn't spend money on people just because its terminal but I will say that I think individuals should be able to make a choice on assisted suicide if they are terminally ill rather than the rather ludicrous situations we have seen of people being forced to starve themselves or go off to Switzerland to die, but government reducing the healthcare offered seems callous, it would basically leave only those with money (or Private Medical Insurance) with a chance to live.
It would again be a continuation of government policy which seems to me to be screwing the poor.
 
ST4 said:
I don't know exactly where, but further towards the direction I think than where it is presently...
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Come on Steve.

You're not a doctor, but we could finish the debate about Ed's kitchen. After all it's your favourite part of the campaign so far. You should be excited to prove how deluded I am and how much you 'know' about the issue.
 
Why do you keep banging on about Ed's kitchens, Phil?

So the piece was written by somebody who is very well connected to the Conservative party, and probably has 6 kitchens of her own, and it was published in a newspaper that is as dogmatic and anti-Labour as it's possible to be. So what? None of that matters. It's not like they made anything up.

The whole point of the "story", which I fear you have missed, is that Miliband is the leader of the Labour party which, historically at least, which was the party which tried to look after the interests of ordinary "hard working people" (to use a modern catchphrase which I hate). It invites us to consider the extent to which Miliband understands the needs of the people he wants to vote for him. You might think it's irrelevant, but the reaction of the party machine suggested they didn't think it was irrelevant.

I think it's been the best comedy moment of the campaign so far. Not as good as 2010's "Fire up the Quattro", but there's still time.
 
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StewartR said:
The whole point of the "story", which I fear you have missed, is that Miliband is the leader of the Labour party which, historically at least, which was the party which tried to look after the interests of ordinary "hard working people" (to use a modern catchphrase which I hate). It invites us to consider the extent to which Miliband understands the needs of the people he wants to vote for him. You might think it's irrelevant, but the reaction of the party machine suggested they didn't think it was irrelevant.
.
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So ed has two kitchens, one for himself and one for the au pair - BFD , its not like hes been caught fiddling his expenses to buy the kitchen while shagging the au pair or anything is it (that comes after he's ellected PM :lol:)

I don't have much time for Ed or labour generally, but if kitchen gate is the best the smear press can do their game is weak
 
big soft moose said:
So ed has two kitchens, one for himself and one for the au pair - BFD , its not like hes been caught fiddling his expenses to buy the kitchen while shagging the au pair or anything is it (that comes after he's ellected PM :LOL:)

I don't have much time for Ed or labour generally, but if kitchen gate is the best the smear press can do their game is weak
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I think its more that Ed, and the Labour party, often criticise Cameron & Osbourne for being Eton toffs, and not understanding the real world and normal people. But Ed and many of the Labour bench are not exactly working people... they are also privately educated and many come from wealthy families so are also out of touch.
 
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cambsno said:
... they are also privately educated and many come from wealthy families so are also out of touch.
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"Politician in out of touch with the real world shocker"... and more breaking news on page 2 "pope found to be a practicing catholic"
 
big soft moose said:
"Politician in out of touch with the real world shocker"... and more breaking news on page 2 "pope found to be a practicing catholic"
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That story got bumped in the late edition by "Faeces Detected in Woodland Areas: Bears Suspected"
 
big soft moose said:
"Politician in out of touch with the real world shocker"... and more breaking news on page 2 "pope found to be a practicing catholic"
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Well, exactly. I guess the Daily Mail's point of view was that there might just be the odd innocent soul somewhere who thought Miliband was a bona fide horny handed toiler of the soil, and who might be shocked to find out that he's just as posh as the other lot. (Though would such a hypothetical person be a Mail reader? One suspects perhaps not.) But yeah, for most of us, it's not exactly an earth shattering revelation.
 
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fabs said:
Son of Polish Jewish immigrants apparently, not exactly born with a silver spoon.
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Be fair, I was trying to find a phrase that reflected how the minds of the Daily Mail editors work!
 
ST4 said:
I wouldn't expect you to. A mad left wing upbringing with a life long schooling in Marxism. Give me the Etonians anyday.
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The usual Daily Mail type assumptions there Steve? "A mad left wing upbringing with a life long schooling in Marxism"? Really??

And why would you not expect me to get your point?
 
fabs said:
The usual Daily Mail type assumptions there Steve? "A mad left wing upbringing with a life long schooling in Marxism"? Really??

And why would you not expect me to get your point?
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A father who was an academic schooled in the lunacies of Marxism. It isn't a quantum leap to make...hence my comment about you not getting the point. Whats the issue with "daily mail type" BTW?

Here endeth todays lesson.
 
ST4 said:
A father who was an academic schooled in the lunacies of Marxism. It isn't a quantum leap to make...hence my comment about you not getting the point. Whats the issue with "daily mail type" BTW?

Here endeth todays lesson.
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How is someone "schooled in the lunacies of Marxism"? He went to a normal comprehensive school. And, once again, why the comment about ME not getting the point? Why ME?
 
ST4 said:
. Whats the issue with "daily mail type" BTW?
.
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I'm fairly sure we've covered the issue of it being rabidly right wing and owned by a life long conservativer supporter who's grandfather was alledgedly a nazi (and was definitely a close freind and supporter of Oslwald Mosely), and it printing thing in the 30's like "hurrah for the blackshirts" and "The minor misdeeds of individual Nazis would be submerged by the immense benefits the new regime is already bestowing upon Germany" before

theres a good reason why it is nicknamed the Daily Hiel
 
fabs said:
How is someone "schooled in the lunacies of Marxism"? He went to a normal comprehensive school. And, once again, why the comment about ME not getting the point? Why ME?
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You wont get an answer Marc. Apparently the lesson has already endeth for the day ;)
 
ST4 said:
Whats the issue with "daily mail type" BTW?
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Absolutely nothing. At least it keeps all the lobotomy recipients in one place. :-)
 
i'm fairly sure we also established before that Steve had never read Das Kapital - so the "maxist madness" to which he refers will be based on a DM interpretation of what Marx said rather than the actual text
 
fabs said:
How is someone "schooled in the lunacies of Marxism"? He went to a normal comprehensive school. And, once again, why the comment about ME not getting the point? Why ME?
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You asked the question to a point that I thought was obvious.

A parent who preaches the lunacies of communism. Son becomes a leftie politician. I wonder how.
 
son chose to join labour not the BCP or SWP - how do you account for that ?

its also worth noting that labour are not a left wing party - economically or liberally speaking - see

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compare where labour are to where stalin is

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from https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

if he really was a communist preaching marxist madness, milliband senior must be very disapointed on how lil eds outlook has turned out
 
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