The great TP election thread

On a more shallow level, anyone else think Cameron has had filler, or is it just makeup?
 
they are cloning them on planet zog (this is why cameron , clegg,and milliband all look quite similar)
 
big soft moose said:
and they did such a good job of that that we were downgraded from AAA to AA+ within weeks
Click to expand...
But...but... the Conservatives are the party of economic brilliance aren't they? Why didn't the markets think so? Is it perhaps because a country's finances are far more influenced by global economic factors than the delusional tinkering of career navel-gazers? (discussion for another thread maybe - economists have very differing views on this).
To respond to your comment more directly, it is impossible to know what would have happened if a deal hadn't been struck - but as an experiment, let's see what happens to the FTSE in the run-up to the EU referendum. I'm not expecting a surge of optimism!

big soft moose said:
Also saying "if you don't do XYZ I won't g into coalition" isnt an empty threat as said earlier they could have left the tories with minority govt and used their balance of power to cherry pick policies
Click to expand...
But the LibDems fundamental political outlook is quite different to the Tories. It's unlikely the Libs would ever vote for the wide-ranging budget cuts the Tories had in mind without a package of mitigating factors... which is pretty much what we got anyway under the coalition agreement. The difference is that a formal coalition with a tied-in 5 year term gives much more political stability than a week-by-week fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants approach. Some of the decisions that were made during the height of the crisis were made in a few hours over a weekend - think a minority government could have done that? I admire your optimism.
 
Llamaman said:
But the LibDems fundamental political outlook is quite different to the Tories. It's unlikely the Libs would ever vote for the wide-ranging budget cuts the Tories had in mind without a package of mitigating factors... which is pretty much what we got anyway under the coalition agreement. The difference is that a formal coalition with a tied-in 5 year term gives much more political stability than a week-by-week fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants approach. Some of the decisions that were made during the height of the crisis were made in a few hours over a weekend - think a minority government could have done that? I admire your optimism.
Click to expand...

which would have been fine if we'd got a package of mitigating factors - but we didnt, we got a couple of meaninless gestures and a conservative government in all but name - and pardon me if i don't think making cuts that will impact huge swathes of the popuation ought to be done while shooting from the hip in a couple of hours (pro bably on a golf course somewhere " I say Ozzy why don't we Axe the public sector pay rise " "spiffing idea cammy , and lets s*** on the students too" " oh indeed , they were never going to vote for us anyway , and shall we sell off some forests ? " "blinding thinking old chum, no one will object to that - but wait what might Nick say" " Nick, f*** him , hes signed our coalition deal now who cares what he thinks"
 
big soft moose said:
which would have been fine if we'd got a package of mitigating factors - but we didnt, we got a couple of meaninless gestures
Click to expand...
A personal allowance 54% increase (during a period of relatively low inflation) over 5 years is meaningless? How then would you rate the 12% Labour managed in their first 5 years?

big soft moose said:
and pardon me if i don't think making cuts that will impact huge swathes of the popuation ought to be done while shooting from the hip in a couple of hours
Click to expand...
I was referring (quite obviously in my opinion, apologies if this wasn't apparent) to the measures put in place during the banking crisis - which were predominately during the Labour term. But the point remains - that often issues arose very quickly and needed measures to deal with them on a similar timescale. Horsetrading of the type you advocate makes such action extremely difficult - just look to the US where government shuts down for days whilst every elected politician trades his vote for pork barrels. Not the model of democracy I want to see here, thanks very much.
 
I'm surprised there hasn't been more chat about the big revelation of the day - UKIP changing their main policy. The new manifesto doesn't pledge an EU exit, but a referendum.

So... they're no longer UKIP but the Referendum Party (remember them?) v2.0.

Seems a bizarre policy decision. I can't imagine there's a single prospective UKIP voter who's pro-EU, and the new policy is no different to the Tory one. What's more, the rest of the manifesto is based upon the assumption that the vote would be for an EU exit. What's the point of a referendum if you've already decided the outcome?
 
Llamaman said:
... just look to the US where government shuts down for days whilst every elected politician trades his vote for pork barrels. Not the model of democracy I want to see here, thanks very much.
Click to expand...
That's an excellent point.
 
big soft moose said:
and they did such a good job of that that we were downgraded from AAA to AA+ within weeks

Also saying "if you don't do XYZ I won't g into coalition" isnt an empty threat as said earlier they could have left the tories with minority govt and used their balance of power to cherry pick policies and extract concesions from both Con and Lab , but clegg didnt have the cojones - wrong man for the moment
Click to expand...

Do we know this, maybe he did say privately to DC about tuition fees and DC just said tough - you either do this or don't be part of the government.
 
Llamaman said:
A personal allowance 54% increase (during a period of relatively low inflation) over 5 years is meaningless? How then would you rate the 12% Labour managed in their first 5 years?
Click to expand...

The exceptionally low inflation (pushing into deflation maybeI isn't a good thing. It seems odd to me that you can increase allowances during a period of austerity
 
Llamaman said:
I'm surprised there hasn't been more chat about the big revelation of the day - UKIP changing their main policy. The new manifesto doesn't pledge an EU exit, but a referendum.

So... they're no longer UKIP but the Referendum Party (remember them?) v2.0.

Seems a bizarre policy decision. I can't imagine there's a single prospective UKIP voter who's pro-EU, and the new policy is no different to the Tory one. What's more, the rest of the manifesto is based upon the assumption that the vote would be for an EU exit. What's the point of a referendum if you've already decided the outcome?
Click to expand...


I can only think they're trying to broaden their appeal. Certainly for me, I wouldn't like to see us leave the EU but would welcome a sensible re-negotiation of some of our terms of membership. Changing their stance on this make them slightly more palitable to me. (there are still lots of reasons I'd never vote for them but..) so thats the only reason I can see
 
Last edited:
boyfalldown said:
The exceptionally low inflation (pushing into deflation maybeI isn't a good thing. It seems odd to me that you can increase allowances during a period of austerity
Click to expand...
The point I was making was that a 54% increase in personal allowance far outstrips the rate of inflation during the same period, meaning that the increase in untaxed income actually has a real-terms effect. The 12% under Labour was less than inflation over the period, so represents a retrogression... or 'fiscal drag' as the economists like to call it.
 
Cobra said:
They were interviewing the guy on the radio yesterday. But it seems that as he issued the challenge farage has the choice of weapons :D
Click to expand...
They should have it in the afternoon. Farage's aim will be a bit wobbly by then. ;)
 
Llamaman said:
But...but... the Conservatives are the party of economic brilliance aren't they? Why didn't the markets think so? Is it perhaps because a country's finances are far more influenced by global economic factors than the delusional tinkering of career navel-gazers?
Click to expand...

Yes. The economy goes up and down all by itself despite the government, not because of it.

All governments do is take credit for the good times and blame the bad times on the previous government.

Cobra said:
They were interviewing the guy on the radio yesterday. But it seems that as he issued the challenge farage has the choice of weapons
Click to expand...

When shown a pair of pistols and asked to choose, the correct response is "thanks, I'll have these two".


Steve.
 
Last edited:
Steve Smith said:
All governments do is take credit for the good times and blame the bad times on the previous government.
Click to expand...
Can't argue with that in the slightest

When shown a pair of pistols and asked to choose, the correct response is "thanks, I'll have these two".
Steve.
Click to expand...
sounds reasonable :D
 
Steve Smith said:
Yes. The economy goes up and down all by itself despite the government, not because of it.Steve.
Click to expand...

So does that mean the precarious state of the Greek economy is entirely due to global economic factors and nothing to do with the Greek government overspending and making poor economic decisions.
And does it also mean that the economies of (for example) Australia, Canada and Norway who were, relative to UK and USA and others, largely unaffected by the 'global crisis' just lucky?
 
Australia's economic success has been largely due to it's mineral richness rather than any governmental deft touch of hand on the economic tiller.
 
Richard Desmond owner of the Express has just donated £1M to UKIP. The Daily Express owner said: "I firmly believe in UKIP. It's a party for good, ordinary British people. It is not run by elitists.

"They are struggling to have a voice. They do not have a massive party machine or highly paid public relations people.

"They are human; they are not perfect and they do not pretend to be. But what they believe in is the best for the British people. They are the sort of people who will stand up for people who are struggling."
 
Struggling to have a voice? You can barely turn on the TV without seeing Farage holding forth.
 
Llamaman said:
Struggling to have a voice? You can barely turn on the TV without seeing Farage holding forth.
Click to expand...

The majority of press coverage is negative/smears, so not exactly in his favour.
 
Farage is smearing himself?

Actually, come to think of it, he's done a pretty good job of that this evening. Shocking performance.
 
I think Ed just lost the last of Labour's Scottish vote. The three women have owned the debate tonight.
 
Steep said:
I think Ed just lost the last of Labour's Scottish vote. The three women have owned the debate tonight.
Click to expand...
As they did last time as well. Sturgeon in particular looks very good - so much better than Salmond so thank goodness he was at the helm for the referendum.

Miliband did ok - he seemed to relax at the end and started to enjoy it, and looked stronger as a result.

Farage had a total shocker. Normally he owns the room but tonight he got off to a bad start (don't insult the audience!) and didn't recover.
 
Llamaman said:
As they did last time as well. Sturgeon in particular looks very good - so much better than Salmond so thank goodness he was at the helm for the referendum.

Miliband did ok - he seemed to relax at the end and started to enjoy it, and looked stronger as a result.

Farage had a total shocker. Normally he owns the room but tonight he got off to a bad start (don't insult the audience!) and didn't recover.
Click to expand...

Only watched last half an hour and did that in absolute awe and wonder...

...at Sturgeons comments about controlled, pragmatic and financial immigration controls, but disparaging UKIP and her insistence that this election isn't about winning but about removing the Tories, which strikes as having all the wrong priorities. Maybe I am just old fashioned.

...at Milliband...well, just at Milliband really, though you are right, he did get better in the last 10 minutes and if you could ignore his much practiced in the mirror James Bond impressions, at least fought his corner and said some sensible stuff in those closing exchanges. I still can't get past the image of him being at G8 summits and the other leaders chucking rolled up bits of paper at the back of his head though.

...at Natalie Bennett who whilst having very noble causes I'm sure, I'm sorry, but her public speaking with a slightly breathless, girly air whilst trying to be strident and forceful simply doesn't work imo.

...at Leanne Wood who again has some very noble ideas and actually argues them quite well, but is preaching to a small minority given most of us can't vote for her party anyway

...and finally at Farage, normally a 'great' performer who was simply limp and lack lustre and put up very little fight.

Would it have been better with Cameron and Clegg there? Hard to say but I fear not. I don't think Cameron can go 'off script' that well, and would have been owned by Clegg, and combined with the other 5 would have all been too shouty. As it was I don't think we gained that much from it from what I saw, I doubt adding two more in would have increased the 'learning' opportunities.

Steep said:
I think Ed just lost the last of Labour's Scottish vote. The three women have owned the debate tonight.
Click to expand...

I almost feel sorry for him, its catch 22, he is damned which ever way he he pushes, pro or anti SNP support... almost... ;)
 
Radio for has just fine a quick interview between Scottish representatives for ukip and the greens......I am afraid to say the green rep had nothing with saying as she spent most of her time calling the ukip rep a bigot........Poor representation for the greens......and as a by not the other stuff she did comment on such trident.....just didn't make sense
 
Yv said:
I almost feel sorry for him, its catch 22, he is damned which ever way he he pushes, pro or anti SNP support... almost... ;)
Click to expand...

True enough, if the situation arises he will do a deal but can't be seen to admit that now for fear of looking weak(er).
 
For the few bits and pieces I have seen

Farrage comes across as the jovial vocal bloke in the pub thats good for a laugh as long as you don't take him seriously

Cameron seems like a smarmy person saying what he thinks the masses want to hear as long as it makes him popular.

Miliband seems a bit lost in the attention he is getting, a bit like the shy kid being picked out to talk in assembly, sometimes he comes across quite well but very much like Gordon Brown, really wants the job but doesn't really know how to do it.

Clegg comes across quite balanced and reasonable, appears to be the most trustworthy of them all. Looks to be the only one who would stand up for what he believes, Cameron and Miliband look to be the type who'd be bullied by the big boys and girls :)

Just my opinion on how they come across as people ;)
 
"Sturgeon Tells Miliband: I Will Make You PM" it really is time Wee Jimmy Krankie puts a sock in it !. I really don't like her aggressive nature.
 
OldCarlos said:
The majority of press coverage is negative/smears, so not exactly in his favour.
Click to expand...

thats because they suffer from a sort of organsational tourettes (as someone put it on another forum) where candidates seem to have a compulsion to say the most unaceptable thing possible when confronted by a microphone and cameras
 
Blank_Canvas said:
"Sturgeon Tells Miliband: I Will Make You PM" it really is time Wee Jimmy Krankie puts a sock in it !. I really don't like her aggressive nature.
Click to expand...

presumably i'll make you Pm if you give us independence and thus then lose your majority and the pm ship when SNP candidates can no longer have seats at westminster ... even little ed ought to realise that's the worst plan since olaf the hairy ordered 4000 horned helmets with horns on the inside
 
cowboy said:
For the few bits and pieces I have seen

Farrage comes across as the jovial vocal bloke in the pub thats good for a laugh as long as you don't take him seriously

Cameron seems like a smarmy person saying what he thinks the masses want to hear as long as it makes him popular.

Miliband seems a bit lost in the attention he is getting, a bit like the shy kid being picked out to talk in assembly, sometimes he comes across quite well but very much like Gordon Brown, really wants the job but doesn't really know how to do it.

Clegg comes across quite balanced and reasonable, appears to be the most trustworthy of them all. Looks to be the only one who would stand up for what he believes, Cameron and Miliband look to be the type who'd be bullied by the big boys and girls :)

Just my opinion on how they come across as people ;)
Click to expand...


I sort of agree, IF the election was about the party leaders only, Clegg would get my vote without a second thought, he is the only one that can argue a case cogently [even things I disagree with], manages not to be a slimeball or a schoolboy, gets his point across without being strident or assertive and still manages to present himself as someone you wouldn't mind having at your dinner table or night in the pub. Sadly, he and his party have policies and opinions that don't reflect my own, which is a bit of a b****r given my head leans right and my heart left, you would think a 'centre ground' party would work for me, but they don't :lol:
 
Yv said:
I sort of agree, IF the election was about the party leaders only, Clegg would get my vote without a second thought, he is the only one that can argue a case cogently [even things I disagree with], manages not to be a slimeball or a schoolboy, gets his point across without being strident or assertive and still manages to present himself as someone you wouldn't mind having at your dinner table or night in the pub.
Click to expand...
I agree. Nice bloke, shame about the policies.
 
Yv said:
I sort of agree, IF the election was about the party leaders only, Clegg would get my vote without a second thought, he is the only one that can argue a case cogently [even things I disagree with], manages not to be a slimeball or a schoolboy, gets his point across without being strident or assertive and still manages to present himself as someone you wouldn't mind having at your dinner table or night in the pub. Sadly, he and his party have policies and opinions that don't reflect my own, which is a bit of a b****r given my head leans right and my heart left, you would think a 'centre ground' party would work for me, but they don't :LOL:
Click to expand...

Agree - actually my thinking is quite weird... if I was to vote tomorrow, it would probably be between Lib-Dem and UKIP!!!!
 
Blank_Canvas said:
"Sturgeon Tells Miliband: I Will Make You PM" it really is time Wee Jimmy Krankie puts a sock in it !. I really don't like her aggressive nature.
Click to expand...

I'd love you to point me to the transcript where she said that.

it's like the BBC constantly harping on about a coalition between Labour and the SNP when both parties have said no such thing will happen.
 
Yv said:
I sort of agree, IF the election was about the party leaders only, Clegg would get my vote without a second thought, he is the only one that can argue a case cogently [even things I disagree with], manages not to be a slimeball or a schoolboy, gets his point across without being strident or assertive and still manages to present himself as someone you wouldn't mind having at your dinner table or night in the pub. Sadly, he and his party have policies and opinions that don't reflect my own, which is a bit of a b****r given my head leans right and my heart left, you would think a 'centre ground' party would work for me, but they don't :LOL:
Click to expand...


The problem with Clegg is however good he is at putting his case he's already proved that his word can't be trusted. The Lib Dems talk big but have nothing to offer that they are not willing to give up for another chance at power. "We draw a line in the sand on our policies right here, erm ok we'll draw another line a bit further back here, well ok but this is positively the last line here..umm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top