The Football Thread - Season 2014/2015

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My oh my, Utd dodged a very large bullet. ;)

The BS on the BBC is unbelievable. For Utd's first goal, one says 'Rooney looked like he was going to touch the ball' and another says 'but he wasn't interfering with play'. Erm, if you are in a position to be able to influence the ball, and in fact move out of the way, then by default you are interfering because the keeper can't ignore you. :thinking: Sadly, the attacker now seems to be directly in between the keeper and the direction of the shot/header to be 'interfering with play'

For the Utd second goal. 'Fellaini nudged the defender'. Er, that was two hands in the back btw. I think I could win many headers if I pushed defenders out of the way. ;)

And for Utd's third, Rooney wasn't touched by the Preston keeper. 'But if he he hadn't jumped out of the way he would have had his leg broken!' Then why did he try to drag his leg for the keeper to hit it? And failing btw. ;) :LOL: He could have kept on running if he hadn't have gone down, and seeing as he wasn't touched, should it have been a penalty? :thinking:

This is all after Preston went ahead with a deflected goal, but if there is any luck floating about, I'd rather it went to the underdog. Unless it's against my team of course. ;) :LOL:

I didn't think Utd would lose, I hoped for other things obviously, but I think Utd fans would have been very fearful for a lot of that game, as you wouldn't have know there were two divisions between the teams, especially in the first half.

Utd v Arsenal could be a good game.

All the Quarter final games have something about them. :) Midlands Derby, with West Brom being the form team, though with a new manager at Villa, who knows what condition they will be in by the time of the cup tie.

Liverpool, up against lower league opposition, which means the pressure is on Liverpool not to lose. But who knows in this years FA Cup.

I would have liked Bradford to get a Premier League team at home, because they seem to have the 'magic of the Cup' about them this year. At least they got a home game, which their Manager, if not their owners, wanted. ;) Up to Reading to stop the dreams.
 
Stan Collymore is funny.

Dermot G is on Talksport soon, so i'll await his judgement before commenting.
 
redhed17 said:
My oh my, Utd dodged a very large bullet. ;)

The BS on the BBC is unbelievable. For Utd's first goal, one says 'Rooney looked like he was going to touch the ball' and another says 'but he wasn't interfering with play'. Erm, if you are in a position to be able to influence the ball, and in fact move out of the way, then by default you are interfering because the keeper can't ignore you. :thinking: Sadly, the attacker now seems to be directly in between the keeper and the direction of the shot/header to be 'interfering with play'

For the Utd second goal. 'Fellaini nudged the defender'. Er, that was two hands in the back btw. I think I could win many headers if I pushed defenders out of the way. ;)

And for Utd's third, Rooney wasn't touched by the Preston keeper. 'But if he he hadn't jumped out of the way he would have had his leg broken!' Then why did he try to drag his leg for the keeper to hit it? And failing btw. ;) :LOL: He could have kept on running if he hadn't have gone down, and seeing as he wasn't touched, should it have been a penalty? :thinking:

This is all after Preston went ahead with a deflected goal, but if there is any luck floating about, I'd rather it went to the underdog. Unless it's against my team of course. ;) :LOL:

I didn't think Utd would lose, I hoped for other things obviously, but I think Utd fans would have been very fearful for a lot of that game, as you wouldn't have know there were two divisions between the teams, especially in the first half.

Utd v Arsenal could be a good game.

All the Quarter final games have something about them. :) Midlands Derby, with West Brom being the form team, though with a new manager at Villa, who knows what condition they will be in by the time of the cup tie.

Liverpool, up against lower league opposition, which means the pressure is on Liverpool not to lose. But who knows in this years FA Cup.

I would have liked Bradford to get a Premier League team at home, because they seem to have the 'magic of the Cup' about them this year. At least they got a home game, which their Manager, if not their owners, wanted. ;) Up to Reading to stop the dreams.
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Who were you rooting for then :LOL:

The 'offside' goal - I can see why it was allowed but then again you see them called offside. You would need to hear how the ref interpreted it.

I didn't think the penalty should have been awarded. He could have just hurdled rather than dive but again, I'm not sure what the ref saw.

On the whole I'm just happy to get through given our iffy form and the number of upsets this year.

At least we finally get a home tie in the next round. Arsenal have been little more than a wet lettuce at Old Trafford in recent years but the way we are of late it could be a good one.

Can't see Liverpool having any problems in the next round but it's been a funny Cup so far.
 
Gallagher says it was an attempted trip, so therefore it's a penalty. :D Did you notice the Preston player wipe something from his mouth on Rooney's shirt?

Rooney is NOT in the eye line of goalie, so the second goal is good :D

The "push" wasn't even worth bringing up :D
 
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Funny how when Rooney dives it's ok yet if Suarez had done this people would b wanting him banned. Disgraceful. At least do the decent thing and tell the ref it was not a pen.

First goal... Seen em given, seen em not, that's the annoying thing. Not much wrong with 2nd.
 
dinners said:
Who were you rooting for then :LOL:

The 'offside' goal - I can see why it was allowed but then again you see them called offside. You would need to hear how the ref interpreted it.

I didn't think the penalty should have been awarded. He could have just hurdled rather than dive but again, I'm not sure what the ref saw.

On the whole I'm just happy to get through given our iffy form and the number of upsets this year.

At least we finally get a home tie in the next round. Arsenal have been little more than a wet lettuce at Old Trafford in recent years but the way we are of late it could be a good one.
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I always tend to go for the underdog unless I don't like the underdog for any reason. I can't deny that I wouldn't have took a little pleasure in Utd getting beat. I think the majority of Utd fans may have felt the same with Liverpool's game. I particularly enjoyed Chel$ki, who were at one point getting hyped to go through the whole season unbeaten, get beat, at home, by Bradford. I think a lot of non Chel$ki fans enjoyed that result.

I could see how all the decisions could have gone one way or the other, but all three went Utd's way. And for all the pundits to dismiss all the 'questions' is disappointing. All these pundits are now a legitimising a lot of dubious play. Call me old fashioned, but I wouldn't even go down if someone hadn't knocked me off my feet when I used to play footie. :rolleyes:

It is getting to the point where they can blatantly say the opposite of what you see with your eyes, and no one pulls them up on it.

cambsno said:
Funny how when Rooney dives it's ok yet if Suarez had done this people would b wanting him banned. Disgraceful. At least do the decent thing and tell the ref it was not a pen.

First goal... Seen em given, seen em not, that's the annoying thing. Not much wrong with 2nd.
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I think if any foreign player had done the same as Rooney the reaction may have been different, but I agree if it were Suarez... :eek: :rolleyes:

However, if this was from the time was Rooney was snarling at England fans going off the pitch, the media may have been a bit more critical in this situation.

It is starting to get to the point where it is accepted that any player can go down without being touched though.

There was no way that Hodgson would say anything negative about Rooney. He's already given him a free pass into the England squad by making him Captiain. Can't be seen to criticisethe Nations Captain.

dinners said:
Can't see Liverpool having any problems in the next round but it's been a funny Cup so far.
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That's exactly when they let you down. :( ;) :LOL:
 
dinners said:
The 'offside' goal - I can see why it was allowed but then again you see them called offside. You would need to hear how the ref interpreted it.

I didn't think the penalty should have been awarded. He could have just hurdled rather than dive but again, I'm not sure what the ref saw.
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cambsno said:
Funny how when Rooney dives it's ok yet if Suarez had done this people would b wanting him banned. Disgraceful. At least do the decent thing and tell the ref it was not a pen.

First goal... Seen em given, seen em not, that's the annoying thing. Not much wrong with 2nd.
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I've already said that I don't think the penalty should have been awarded so I'm not sticking up for Rooney or any other player that does the same.

What I think and what the laws of the game state are a bit different. It doesn't matter whether the forward dives, hurdles or gets taken out. It is the action of the goalkeeper that is being penalised.

A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
  • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
  • trips or attempts to trip an opponent
  • jumps at an opponent
  • charges an opponent
  • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
  • pushes an opponent
  • tackles an opponent
A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play.

I'm still waiting for the day when the ref awards a penalty on the basis of the defender's / goalkeepers' actions but also books the forward player for diving.

The offside one I thought could have gone either way so I looked for some clarity:

Offside: The following definitions apply.
  • Interfering with an opponent' means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball.
  • Challenging an opponent for the ball means something more than "Making a gesture of movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent"
 
Rooney, England Captain ? Never in a month of Sundays was that a foul. Ref was conned by an overrated, over paid lout. I just hope the real Arsenal turn up in the next round and give them what they deserve.
 
Jelster said:
Rooney, England Captain ? Never in a month of Sundays was that a foul. Ref was conned by an overrated, over paid lout. I just hope the real Arsenal turn up in the next round and give them what they deserve.
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Regardless of your own personal opinion of Rooney - the ref (as per the rules) awarded the pen because of the goalkeeper's action.

Doesn't make Rooney's dive any less wrong. There was no need to dive but players seem to anyway.
 
Rooney must be the cleverest con artist ever, considering how successful he has been. But according to all his detractors, he's thick as sh!t, so he can't be. Just as confusing as some rules in football.
 
OK, cards on table, I've been a United fan for nearly 50 years. But I like to think I can still be reasonably objective.

I didn't see last night's match but I did see the goals on the BBC website this morning.

#1 I thought was definitely offside, because in that position Rooney was surely interfering with play. But it seems I need to study the rules a bit more closely:
dinners said:
Offside: The following definitions apply.
  • Interfering with an opponent' means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or challenging an opponent for the ball.
  • Challenging an opponent for the ball means something more than "Making a gesture of movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent"
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So I think the ref got it right.

#2 I didn't have a problem with. Fellaini muscled the defender out of the way. I can see why some people might claim it was a foul, but I personally don't think so.

#3 though. No contact, dive, no penalty. Surely. But again it seems I don't know the rules:
dinners said:
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
  • kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
  • trips or attempts to trip an opponent
  • jumps at an opponent
  • charges an opponent
  • strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
  • pushes an opponent
  • tackles an opponent
A penalty kick is awarded if any of the above ten offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area, irrespective of the position of the ball, provided it is in play.
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So again, I reckon the ref got it right. The keeper's action justified the penalty award, regardless of what Rooney did. It's a shame he went down like that, but ultimately it's irrelevant.

So I think the ref got all 3 right, but if it hadn't been for the sterling work by @dinners digging out the actual rules, I'd have got 2 of them wrong!
 
A bit annoying for the arsenal fans that the fa cup game is on the monday ;)
Is the fuss over Bradford not being televised by the BBC a bit ott?
 
Great powers of recovery from the two chelsea lads there, regardless of how bad the challenges were.
 
Watched the match via a stream this afternoon. Terrible result for Man Utd today even though the performance (esp 2nd half after Young came on) was half decent.

Loads of pressure in the 2nd half going for the win but naff up front. Caught by a sucker punch. RVP has had his day I think.

Top 4 is going to be tough now with a hard run run coming up.
 
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Shouldn't that second city goal have been offside?
 
The players that man Utd have, they should be bloody superb going forward. We all know that they can`t defend, but they can`t bloody attack at the minute. Is LVG overdoing the tactics rather than letting them play what is a simple game?
 
fracster said:
The players that man Utd have, they should be bloody superb going forward. We all know that they can`t defend, but they can`t bloody attack at the minute. Is LVG overdoing the tactics rather than letting them play what is a simple game?
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They've got a really good defensive record but anybody watching them can see it's a shambles at the back.

Up front are firing blanks at the moment. RVP & Falcao useless whilst Rooney makes up for the midfield elephant in the room

Players playing out of position everywhere to fit formations. :thinking:

Nobody expected a title challenge as there are areas we still need to address but top 4 wasn't a huge ask.
 
Agree Phil, but why buy Di maria(sp) and play him through the middle rather than wide, why not play Mata, a bloody great player IMO, behind a striker. Start with Fellani, just why?
 
Glad City closed the gap a bit.

Alan Shearer - how can he still be this bad on MOTD?

We lost again, but I'm still happy as we seem to have rediscovered our soul, actually got a few youth team graduates in which was impossible according to our previous genius - hope he's had his emergency knee op....We have a tough run coming up and hard to see us staying up which will likely spell financial doom with our FFP fine from the Championship remaining unpaid, but there are some other teams as bad as us at present - Leicester look doomed, Sunderland look awful, Villa on a terrible run, Hull look terrible. Think Palace and West Brom will stay up, and in a bizarre way would like to see Burnley stay up - Sean Dyche doing a great job there.
 
fracster said:
Agree Phil, but why buy Di maria(sp) and play him through the middle rather than wide
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Goes back to the defence

This 3:5:2 thing does my head in.

No confidence in a s*** back 4 = so he's playing 3 at the back + the 2 obvious two wing backs (Young L & Valencia R) to make a back 5

That leaves room for 2 central midfield players and for some reason £57m worth of Di Maria gets played there.

Herrera is a young player made for that role and is quality but LVG doesn't seem to see it. Carrick is injured. Blind is fine but he seems to spend all his time bailing out the defence.

Rooney has been pulled back to midfield which I can understand but sadly RVP and Falcao are dross right now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is we're compromising our midfield to cope with a s*** defence to the detriment of our attack.

My thoughts

5 in and 5 0ut

Jones, Evans, RVP, Falcao, Smalling can go

1 or 2 two quality central defenders in.

A right back to add to Rafael.

A real central midfield player to add to Carrick and Herrera

Wilson, Rooney up top + a new striker.
 
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dinners said:
Watched the match via a stream this afternoon. Terrible result for Man Utd today even though the performance (esp 2nd half after Young came on) was half decent.

Loads of pressure in the 2nd half going for the win but naff up front. Caught by a sucker punch. RVP has had his day I think.

Top 4 is going to be tough now with a hard run run coming up.
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Had his day? Paid a lot of money for one good season then.
Personally I think his not happy and clearly see that in his body language. Unless United win the FA cup I really can't see LVG being in charge next season.
 
The Greek said:
Had his day? Paid a lot of money for one good season then.
Personally I think his not happy and clearly see that in his body language. Unless United win the FA cup I really can't see LVG being in charge next season.
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He was never a long term investment. Fergie bought RVP when City won the title and the following season he pretty much won it back for us. I agree he's not looking happy but that's probably down to not being able to hit a barn door with a banjo.

I think LVG's future will depend more on whether he gets Champions League football than what happens in the FA cup.
 
Agree with you Phil, but why did Man Utd not address those defensive frailties? One can only think that it was because the players they wanted were not available. Let us be honest here, if it wasn`t for De Gea, you would be nowhere near top four.
 
fracster said:
Agree with you Phil, but why did Man Utd not address those defensive frailties? One can only think that it was because the players they wanted were not available. Let us be honest here, if it wasn`t for De Gea, you would be nowhere near top four.
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LVG was keen to see what his defence was like but for most of the season he didn't have them available. At one point we had Valencia, Blind, Carrick and Young as a back four.

Vidic and Evra (and Ferdinand to a lesser degree) have been missed but in terms of replacing them, Rojo and Shaw have come in and to be fair to LVG he promoted Tyler Blackett and Paddy McNair to see what they could do. Blind covers there too.

Agree that De Gea has earned us a lot of points but that's what he's there for.

There were a few CB targets but (as you say) I don't think they were available at the time. Hopefully they will address that in the Summer.
 
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dinners said:
LVG was keen to see what his defence was like but for most of the season he didn't have them available. At one point we had Valencia, Blind, Carrick and Young as a back four.

Vidic and Evra (and Ferdinand to a lesser degree) have been missed but in terms of replacing them, Rojo and Shaw have come in and to be fair to LVG he promoted Tyler Blackett and Paddy McNair to see what they could do. Blind covers there too.

Agree that De Gea has earned us a lot of points but that's what he's there for.

There were a few CB targets but (as you say) I don't think they were available at the time. Hopefully they will address that in the Summer.
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I think Rojo has the makings of a very good centre half,agreed. Blackett and McNair don`t seem up to the task, Jones and Smalling are both disappointing. When you first got those two I envisaged them both progressing to be Englands centre backs, how wrong I was.
 
fracster said:
I think Rojo has the makings of a very good centre half,agreed. Blackett and McNair don`t seem up to the task, Jones and Smalling are both disappointing. When you first got those two I envisaged them both progressing to be Englands centre backs, how wrong I was.
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Smalling and Jones (and you can add Evans) did OK when one of them was paired centrally with Vidic.

A couple of years ago Evans was superb alongside Vidic and pretty much pushed Ferdinand out.

All of them were pretty much the 'other' CB but together they just don't look comfortable.

Rojo does look good although I'd argue he's as much of a left back. He and Shaw can go on and do good things.

I've liked McNair so far. Blackett less so.
 
The Greek said:
Had his day? Paid a lot of money for one good season then.
Personally I think his not happy and clearly see that in his body language. Unless United win the FA cup I really can't see LVG being in charge next season.
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I think Utd could be in trouble if it doesn't work for van Gaal. I mean, if they ship out one of the biggest Managers in the World because he failed, who would take over? :thinking:

I think it is amazing Utd are in the position they are in as from the outside it just looks a mess. The Media keeps on saying that van Gaal doesn't know his best team, but how long does it take to find that out? :thinking: Having players in their wrong positions is reminiscent of Liverpool teams of the past, and normally doesn't end well.

Once you start to think of Managers to be anywhere short term then you have to be very careful in the Managers you get, as if they have a total different 'philosophy' in that if the they need to rip a team up to get 'their own' players in. It has worked at Chel$ki because they paid the money to have a very expensive high quality base for a Manager to come in and tinker with, and had the money to bring in quality to replace quality. That was before FFP of course. ;) Although Moaninho seems to be doing very well with the selling for a decent prices.

I think if Ferguson had gone when Utd had a strong squad, or kept the squad at a certain level rather than letting the quality go down, then Moyes or whoever may have been able to more easily carry it on. Now it is going to be so much harder than it could have been because of FFP.
 
redhed17 said:
I think if Ferguson had gone when Utd had a strong squad, or kept the squad at a certain level rather than letting the quality go down, then Moyes or whoever may have been able to more easily carry it on. Now it is going to be so much harder than it could have been because of FFP.
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I agree about Ferguson leaving an iffy squad.

United will be at a huge advantage through FFP
 
redhed17 said:
Very dramatic end to the Spurs v West Ham game. :eek:

Not a result I expected for much of that game.
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I just caught the last 15 mins or so. I was hoping for a West Ham win but hey ho, certainly sounded like a dramatic ending.

Can't decide how I want the Southampton Liverpool game to go.
 
dinners said:
United will be at a huge advantage through FFP
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Depends on how many times they have to buy and sell, and that will depend on how many Managers they go through. ;) Nowadays money, unless it is stupid money, it gets harder to attract quality players when you're not challenging for titles and/or in the Champions League. The longer that goes on, then you have to try something else, but you need stability to do that imho.

dinners said:
I just caught the last 15 mins or so. I was hoping for a West Ham win but hey ho, certainly sounded like a dramatic ending.

Can't decide how I want the Southampton Liverpool game to go.
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I think I can. ;)

Hopefully it's a good game and the best team wins. Without any of these iffy Ref decisions which are becoming more prevalent.

That said, I'd take a bad Liverpool display and a win if I had to. :LOL:
 
To me Utd didn't seem to be a team where we were, they were to individual for me. I haven't watched the game back but I think they had one shot on target in the second half, we scored the winner against the run of play. First half I thought we were the better team. We played with 3 midfielders as such and had Ki on the right side and I think this tatic worked and probably helped us to win the game. We have always gone with two wingers and it was the first time since joining the PL when we haven't.

For me Fallini(spl) was a liability, he was just dirty on times and too gangly, the ref wised up to him and booked him. RVP head was down IMO and is not the player he was. Juan Mata was poorish and not as creative as he can be, again another RVP. To me the one who stood out was Young when he came on.

For me and on yesterdays evidence, Utd are miles behind Chelsea who ripped us a new one two home games ago.
 
redhed17 said:
I think if Ferguson had gone when Utd had a strong squad, or kept the squad at a certain level rather than letting the quality go down...
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dinners said:
I agree about Ferguson leaving an iffy squad.
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Absolutely. I mean, it's not as if they won the league by a huge margin in Ferguson's last season... oh, hang on...

I just don't buy it. United walked away with the title in 2013 and nobody, but nobody, said *at the time* that it was a poor squad.
 
StewartR said:
Absolutely. I mean, it's not as if they won the league by a huge margin in Ferguson's last season... oh, hang on...

I just don't buy it. United walked away with the title in 2013 and nobody, but nobody, said *at the time* that it was a poor squad.
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I take your first point, but I think plenty of people did say they thought he did well to win it with that squad - I certainly thought so.
 
RVP won it for us.

Fergie knew he needed a quick fix, got his man, won the title, proved his point and did one.
 
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redhed17 said:
Very dramatic end to the Spurs v West Ham game. :eek:

Not a result I expected for much of that game.
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Spurs were lucky, wedding deserved nothing from that game. West ham out played us both physically and tactically.
 
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