The Football Thread - Season 2013/2014

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PMK said:
He's certainly tried his utmost to drag it through the dirt, that's for sure. Think most owners would want shot. But with John W Henry, I can this dragging on for some time yet. He's made some quite bold statements in recent weeks (we buy, don't sell / what they smoking over there), so unless the price tag is supremely higher I think he may stay. Even though, most view that Suarez has made his position untenable.
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I'm not sure they can entirely blame Suarez. Ownership and management has a fair bit of accountability for the absolutely appalling couple of years of PR for the club.
 
I'm not entirely blaming Suarez. The club hasn't been run particularly well since, well, since a hell of a long time, tbh.

The problem is the value in players these days. If they weren't so powerful and such expensive assets then clubs could sack the little buggers, but instead they do what they like and clubs eat it.
 
I dont get it? Why is it so wrong for Suarez to look elsewhere and to want to move - after all, Liverpool did not give Carroll a chance even though he wanted to come back and prove himself. While players do have a lot of power, clubs do too.
 
cambsno said:
I dont get it? Why is it so wrong for Suarez to look elsewhere and to want to move
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The more you post in this thread, the more I think you don't follow football...

- He signed a new four year deal last summer.
- The club/fans stood by him after the Evra saga
- The club/fans stood by him and defended him when the 'cheat' calls came
- The club/fans stood by him after biting Ivanovic.
- Even on Stevie G's testimonial, he received an amazing reception from the fans.

I think the fans/club think he might owe them some of that loyalty back? I know, loyalty and footballers don't go hand in hand, but this is quite an exceptional case.

Not sure why you're bringing Andy Carroll into this situation...
 
PMK said:
The more you post in this thread, the more I think you don't follow football...

- He signed a new four year deal last summer.
- The club/fans stood by him after the Evra saga
- The club/fans stood by him and defended him when the 'cheat' calls came
- The club/fans stood by him after biting Ivanovic.
- Even on Stevie G's testimonial, he received an amazing reception from the fans.

I think the fans/club think he might owe them some of that loyalty back? I know, loyalty and footballers don't go hand in hand, but this is quite an exceptional case.

Not sure why you're bringing Andy Carroll into this situation...
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Well said.
 
PMK said:
The more you post in this thread, the more I think you don't follow football...

- He signed a new four year deal last summer.
- The club/fans stood by him after the Evra saga
- The club/fans stood by him and defended him when the 'cheat' calls came
- The club/fans stood by him after biting Ivanovic.
- Even on Stevie G's testimonial, he received an amazing reception from the fans.

I think the fans/club think he might owe them some of that loyalty back? I know, loyalty and footballers don't go hand in hand, but this is quite an exceptional case.

Not sure why you're bringing Andy Carroll into this situation...
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Absolutely.
 
The irony is it is obvious to anyone with a brain that Suarez is using Arsenal as a stepping stone to RM anyway. He knows they're not going to buy him this summer if Bale goes through, but that is where he wants to be. So it's off to Arsenal to show he can cut it in the CL and then it'll be "I want to get away from the English media" or "Arsenal aren't matching my ambition" or "Screw the lot of you".
 
PMK said:
The more you post in this thread, the more I think you don't follow football...

- He signed a new four year deal last summer.
- The club/fans stood by him after the Evra saga
- The club/fans stood by him and defended him when the 'cheat' calls came
- The club/fans stood by him after biting Ivanovic.
- Even on Stevie G's testimonial, he received an amazing reception from the fans.

I think the fans/club think he might owe them some of that loyalty back? I know, loyalty and footballers don't go hand in hand, but this is quite an exceptional case.

Not sure why you're bringing Andy Carroll into this situation...
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But Carroll signed a deal when he signed, but Liverpool decided he didnt want him - you cant have it both ways, both parties need to respect contracts but Liverpool were quick to dump Carroll but are now upset that Suarez wants to dump them.

Clubs dont show loyalty (especially with managers), so why should players expect to?
 
cambsno said:
I dont get it? Why is it so wrong for Suarez to look elsewhere and to want to move - after all, Liverpool did not give Carroll a chance even though he wanted to come back and prove himself. While players do have a lot of power, clubs do too.
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Nothing wrong with Suarez wanting to move, if he went about it the right way. You want a move, put in a transfer request. Don't start saying that you want to leave the country because of the media, then say it's OK to stay in the country because you actually want to play in the Champions League. :bang:

If a player wants a move, and nobody bids the fee, what do you do, reduce the fee because the player wants to go? What value contracts and market values? :shrug: There is some room for negotiation of fees if the player puts in the transfer request, but if he doesn't, is a move the most important thing to him, or the money he'll lose by doing that? :shrug:

Also, after all the **** he has done, it would have been nice if he had shown the loyalty and backing to the club, that the club has given to him throughout the ****. He has said he gave everything last year for the team, on the understanding that if Liverpool failed to get into the Champions League, he could leave. That is something Rodgers strenuously denies btw. How is getting yourself banned for an unprovoked attack giving everything to the team? :shrug:

If I was Luis Suarez, I would have said to the club, I want to play in the Champions League, and renegotiate his contract so if Liverpool don't qualify this year, he can move for a certain fee. Of course if that was so important to him he would have done this almost exactly a year ago when he was given a new long term contract. :shrug:

Liverpool don't have to do that btw, because they showed faith in him last year by giving him that long term contract, and he should have put in the clauses he wanted into that contract.

As it is, he has upset the fans, though they have been trying to influence him at the pre season games to stay. That was before the 'foot injury' though. :thinking: But he has upset the owner to such a degree that he has said he's not moving. :nono: And the 'foot injury' has upset the manager so much that he is making Suarez train alone. So much for the 'amicable' move he wants.

He is living in a dream world if he believes anything could be amicable at the moment.
 
cambsno said:
But Carroll signed a deal when he signed, but Liverpool decided he didnt want him - you cant have it both ways, both parties need to respect contracts but Liverpool were quick to dump Carroll but are now upset that Suarez wants to dump them.

Clubs dont show loyalty (especially with managers), so why should players expect to?
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Carroll was signed by KD. It is perfectly normal for new managers to think differently.
 
cambsno said:
But Carroll signed a deal when he signed, but Liverpool decided he didnt want him - you cant have it both ways, both parties need to respect contracts but Liverpool were quick to dump Carroll but are now upset that Suarez wants to dump them.

Clubs dont show loyalty (especially with managers), so why should players expect to?
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If you think Liverpool haven't been loyal to Suarez, then you need to look up the meaning of the word. They have backed him to the detriment of the club. Maybe it was naive to expect that to be reciprocated in the modern football world. :shrug:

Just like Liverpool don't have to let Suarez leave because of the contract, Carroll didn't have to leave either. Yes, it may have been made clear to Carroll that he may have not been in the managers plans, but he didn't have to move if he didn't want to. I would imagine there would have been clauses put in Carroll's last contract where he benefited more if Liverpool wanted to sell him, because the writing was on the wall with regards his Liverpool career at that time.

And do you think Suarez and Carroll signed new deals for less money btw? :shrug: Do you think many players sign new deals for less money? ;)
 
redhed17 said:
If you think Liverpool haven't been loyal to Suarez, then you need to look up the meaning of the word. They have backed him to the detriment of the club. Maybe it was naive to expect that to be reciprocated in the modern football world. :shrug:

Just like Liverpool don't have to let Suarez leave because of the contract, Carroll didn't have to leave either. Yes, it may have been made clear to Carroll that he may have not been in the managers plans, but he didn't have to move if he didn't want to. I would imagine there would have been clauses put in Carroll's last contract where he benefited more if Liverpool wanted to sell him, because the writing was on the wall with regards his Liverpool career at that time.

And do you think Suarez and Carroll signed new deals for less money btw? :shrug: Do you think many players sign new deals for less money? ;)
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Carroll received a very hefty payoff.
 
redhed17 said:
If you think Liverpool haven't been loyal to Suarez, then you need to look up the meaning of the word. They have backed him to the detriment of the club. Maybe it was naive to expect that to be reciprocated in the modern football world. :shrug:

Just like Liverpool don't have to let Suarez leave because of the contract, Carroll didn't have to leave either. Yes, it may have been made clear to Carroll that he may have not been in the managers plans, but he didn't have to move if he didn't want to. I would imagine there would have been clauses put in Carroll's last contract where he benefited more if Liverpool wanted to sell him, because the writing was on the wall with regards his Liverpool career at that time.

And do you think Suarez and Carroll signed new deals for less money btw? :shrug: Do you think many players sign new deals for less money? ;)
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I never said that Liverpool were not loyal to Suarez, but neither clubs or players are particularly loyal. Carroll didnt have to go, but had he styayed he would have played reserve team football, so was forced out - not exactly loyal!

Look at the way Villa are treating some senior players like Bent, just putting them in the reserves - if he wants to stay he knows he wont play.
 
cambsno said:
But Carroll signed a deal when he signed, but Liverpool decided he didnt want him - you cant have it both ways, both parties need to respect contracts but Liverpool were quick to dump Carroll but are now upset that Suarez wants to dump them.

Clubs dont show loyalty (especially with managers), so why should players expect to?
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You're comparing two completely unrelated incidents, which I alluded to in my previous post. But you managed to ignore most of that, so it's not surprising.
 
cambsno said:
I never said that Liverpool were not loyal to Suarez, but neither clubs or players are particularly loyal. Carroll didnt have to go, but had he styayed he would have played reserve team football, so was forced out - not exactly loyal!

Look at the way Villa are treating some senior players like Bent, just putting them in the reserves - if he wants to stay he knows he wont play.
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Now you are chatting absolute nonsense. Bent hasn't been playing because Villa have two much better, more successful players in Benteke and Weimann. He's still getting paid, what more do you want the manager to do? Play him to the detriment of the team?
 
WTF is going on with this England squad??

It's more like a SAGA XI - why aren't we blooding kids for the future? I mean, no offence to Lambert, but how is giving a 31 year old a debut supposed to help us look to the World cup?

Shocking selection
 
PMK said:
Now you are chatting absolute nonsense. Bent hasn't been playing because Villa have two much better, more successful players in Benteke and Weimann. He's still getting paid, what more do you want the manager to do? Play him to the detriment of the team?
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Consigned to training with youth team, not even given a chance? That's not loyalty.

Surely you can agree that managers are rarely shown loyalty. Adkins last season...
 
pooley said:
WTF is going on with this England squad??

It's more like a SAGA XI - why aren't we blooding kids for the future? I mean, no offence to Lambert, but how is giving a 31 year old a debut supposed to help us look to the World cup?

Shocking selection
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Who is there though? Not seen squad but what young atts do we have? Up front we are light, would rather see lambert than welbeck.
 
It's as obvious as can be that we don't stand a cat in hells chance of winning the world cup (should we even qualify) particularly with an aging squad playing predictable football.

Start building a team around the likes of the ox and Wiltshire otherwise it'll just get to the stage where the current crop of young talent don't see any tournament play until its too late.

Anyone who thinks Gerrard and Lampard playing together is the way forward really needs a session with the shrink. Oh wait, that's who our national coach has just picked - again!
 
pooley said:
WTF is going on with this England squad??

It's more like a SAGA XI - why aren't we blooding kids for the future? I mean, no offence to Lambert, but how is giving a 31 year old a debut supposed to help us look to the World cup?

Shocking selection
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Isn't Rooney injured, or at least coming back from injury. :thinking:

In the pre season form of Liverpool, Jordan Ibe has impressed. Gerrard has had a good pre season too. Not many other English players to consider in the Liverpool team who have played that much.

It baffles me that Welbeck gets in the squad. He's a forward who doesn't score goals. :eek: :lol:

It's OK saying add some young blood, but the season hasn't started yet, and I don't think the Under 21 Squad did too well over the Summer did they. :shrug:

It's a stupid time to have an international anyway. :shake: Never stopped them before though. :bonk:
 
redhed17 said:
Isn't Rooney injured, or at least coming back from injury. :thinking:

In the pre season form of Liverpool, Jordan Ibe has impressed. Gerrard has had a good pre season too. Not many other English players to consider in the Liverpool team who have played that much.

It baffles me that Welbeck gets in the squad. He's a forward who doesn't score goals. :eek: :lol:

It's OK saying add some young blood, but the season hasn't started yet, and I don't think the Under 21 Squad did too well over the Summer did they. :shrug:

It's a stupid time to have an international anyway. :shake: Never stopped them before though. :bonk:
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Sterling has been as good as Ibe.
 
Maybe the youngsters didn't do very well over the summer but like it or not they're our future and the better ones amongst them need the experience of the main team. Look at the age of our squad.
They weren't good enough collectively in their prime so its time to move some of them on.
 
As long as we don't loose to Scotland I don't care who we pick.

A lot of my mates are going down and I'll never hear the end of it if Scotland win.
 
pooley said:
WTF is going on with this England squad??

It's more like a SAGA XI - why aren't we blooding kids for the future? I mean, no offence to Lambert, but how is giving a 31 year old a debut supposed to help us look to the World cup?

Shocking selection
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Not remotely shocking in my opinion :). If he was at one of the top 4 clubs no-one would bat an eyelid, but because he is at Southampton it's shocking.

He had a great season, he'll only be 32 next year for the World Cup, so if he does well next year and in the team, could force his way in. One of two players always do.

For me young players should be with the U21s unless they are going to play for the senior squad, you;d then at least get a core playing together from a young age, at a competitive level. Works for Spain anyway!

The squad itself is depressing for the sheer lack of quality in it. Not really many players you would call 'world class' in there.
 
PMK said:
Now you are chatting absolute nonsense. Bent hasn't been playing because Villa have two much better, more successful players in Benteke and Weimann. He's still getting paid, what more do you want the manager to do? Play him to the detriment of the team?
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I'd certainly agree that Benteke is better than Bent, not sure I'd say that about Weimann and hard to compare as Bent hardly played last year.

Whilst I don't always agree with Arsene Wengers no1 fan :), his point is valid. There is 0 loyalty in football generally. Fans have loyalty to clubs, but generally have no loyalty to players, managers. Clubs have no loyalty to either of those generally either (there are exceptions of course).

Now Liverpool certainly have been 'loyal' to Suarez - but of course they almost had to as he is the key player, highest potential resale value and arguably the best chance of getting into the Champions League. So they've been loyal through his racist remarks, biting, diving and general unpleasantness because he was so core to the team. If he'd been a youth team player he'd have gone a long time ago. Asking for a transfer to a Champions League team is arguably the least wrong thing he has done in his time there.

Clearly some form of discussion was held at the end of last year and a shambolic contract drawn up - both Liverpool and Suarez should castigate themselves for the lack of clarity in it (this is part assumption admittedly).

So the question is what to do now - if a team outside of England came in Liverpool would sell him quickly you'd assume. If you assume Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea will occupy the top 3 spots, selling Suarez to Arsenal makes Liverpool's small chances of making the top 4 more remote than ever, unless they have someone amazing lined up to replace him. with Martinez at Everton, Bale likely to leave Spurs, if they kept Suarez or sold to someone else outside of England, chances of getting into 4th are suddenly looking better.

Not quite sure how this is going to go, but after our disaster last season on transfers am enjoying watching Liverpool fans show their disgust and Arsenal fans making speedy U-turns! :)
 
This season could go anyway. :shrug:

Will Moyes carry on the Utd dynasty?

Will Martinez be able to carry on what Moyes did and work miracles with little money?

Will Bale leaving (if he goes) weaken Spurs, or will they spend the extra money well, and have they already spent well?

Will Moaninho lose his midas touch?

Will the Suarez situation carry on, and if they sell him, will they have time to spend any money?

Will Arsenal spend any money and improve their team? ;) :lol:

Will Pelligrini have City hit the ground running?

Will there be someone come out the pack and have an exceptional season?

So many changes in one summer, that the top four could be mixed up up this season. :)




Probably not though. :( :lol:
 
akr said:
Not remotely shocking in my opinion :). If he was at one of the top 4 clubs no-one would bat an eyelid, but because he is at Southampton it's shocking.
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Trust me, its absolutely nothing whatsoever about who he plays for. Its the fact we are turning to an untested 31 year old when the opportunity should be given to a young and up and coming player.

How can we even consider looking forward it that's the managers attitude?
 
pooley said:
Trust me, its absolutely nothing whatsoever about who he plays for. Its the fact we are turning to an untested 31 year old when the opportunity should be given to a young and up and coming player.

How can we even consider looking forward it that's the managers attitude?
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Ok, what up and coming player?

Our strikers are:

Rooney - 'injured'
Sturridge - Injured
Defoe - out of form
Carroll - Injured
Welbeck - rubbish
Bent - doesn't play

Who else is there? Lambert as good a choice as anyone.

Personally stick theo up top and put zaha on the wing.
 
Wasn't Lambert the top English scorer last season? He deserves a chance to see if he can do it in an international.

If Welbeck has as productive season as the last, then I don't think he is the answer.

Defoe is 30, so no spring chicken either, and comes in and out of bursts of form.

Sturridge had some very good form towards the end of the season, but he's just coming back from injury, so is not ready for this game.

Carroll could force his way in, if he gets back to scoring goals.

Has Rooney still got it? :shrug:

Is Walcott ready to be a main striker?

There is a dearth of young striking talent. For too many years favourites have played for England when higher scorers, maybe not playing fashionable teams, have been overlooked. If you have a top scorer like Lambert he deserves to be in the squad imho.
 
pooley said:
Trust me, its absolutely nothing whatsoever about who he plays for. Its the fact we are turning to an untested 31 year old
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Test him then. It's only a friendly. :shrug:

pooley said:
the opportunity should be given to a young and up and coming player.

How can we even consider looking forward it that's the managers attitude?
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I agree that we should be looking forward and developing younger players but the World cup isn't 3 years away, it's just around the corner. Yes we may not even be there but if we are it's about finding the balance between 'future' and the 'here and now'.

Bottom line, we're not blessed in the forward department.

So what if he's 31, the World cup is half a dozen games at most for any player and 'if' he has a really productive season and is bang in form come the big selection day, it would be an oversight to then be talking about him being untested with England in any way.
 
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:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

Its attitudes like these that are one of the main reasons we are falling so far behind other countries. Lets face facts - we have zero chance of winning the world cup next year - no amount of looking through rose tinted glasses will change that.

You look to the future - you put people like Connor Whickam or Nathan Delfouneso into the squad and get them used to being around the first team, maybe give them 20 minutes towards the end of the game - in other words nurture them.

I agree they are not ready to lead the line on a permanant basis yet - but unless we break them in, we'll still be having this same conversation in 10 years time. Whats next? Get that bloke from the sky tv advert to put his boots on - he's supposed to have a decent right foot.
 
pooley said:
:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

Its attitudes like these that are one of the main reasons we are falling so far behind other countries. Lets face facts - we have zero chance of winning the world cup next year - no amount of looking through rose tinted glasses will change that.

You look to the future - you put people like Connor Whickam or Nathan Delfouneso into the squad and get them used to being around the first team, maybe give them 20 minutes towards the end of the game - in other words nurture them.

I agree they are not ready to lead the line on a permanant basis yet - but unless we break them in, we'll still be having this same conversation in 10 years time. Whats next? Get that bloke from the sky tv advert to put his boots on - he's supposed to have a decent right foot.
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Sorry but wickham struggles to get into the Sunderland side, let alone put him in the national one!! When the likes of Germany throw their youngsters in they are at least playing for a side and playing well. I would love to see younger players given a chance but up top especially we just don't have any!!
 
So, JWH has said Suarez isn't going anywhere at any price as it's too late to find a replacement. I accept that, but think this is a dangerous game with such a volatile player.
 
I'm so happy I don't give two craps about international football.
 
Ah, just seen. It never rains...
 
TriggerHappy said:
Raheem Sterling now. Oh dear, Liverpool :lol:
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Not the first time he's been charged with assaulting women either. Last time the case was dropped as the witnesses failed to turn up.

Sounds like he might have some "issues" :nono:
 
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