The Football Thread - Season 2013/2014 & World Cup

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I saw that earlier. Much as I love Rafa, I wouldn't want him back as LFC manager. As long as he goes to you and exhibits his last 18 months performance for us I'll be fine with it. :D
 
Not a hope that Rafa will be Utd manager. Not given the "bad blood" between him and Ferguson.
 
mindcrime said:
Well, the man to go for at the time was Mourinho, but there was no way Fergie would have allowed that! And now Fergie is going to be on the panel for choosing the new manager. I guess he may have less influence this time around?
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It will certainly be interesting to see how they go about it this time.

I'm not sure Alex Ferguson was against Mourinho in fact they're good pals. It was Sir Bobby that spoke about about Mourinho not being the right sort of person to be at Manchester United. Interestingly Alex Ferguson and Bobby Charlton were both involved in the decision to get rid of Moyes.

Despite Ferguson picking Moyes for the job, things could have been different for Moyes had he gone about things differently. Whilst he made it clear that he wouldn't stand in the way of Moyes doing things his own way, Ferguson wasn't pleased about him getting rid of Rene Meulensteen, Eric Steele, and Mike Phelan. These were the guys that had as much to do with the players as Ferguson and according to various reports it was this clear out that had a huge impact on the players.

Nobody knows whether Moyes would have gone on to be a success had he been given the time but had he retained Meulensteen, Steele, and Phelan and had Ed Woodward (David Gill's replacement) not cocked up trying to get Moyes a couple of targets early doors, then he may well have got a Champions League spot and still be in a position to go on and prove himself.

All said and done, I said when he was appointed that I would judge him (like any other manager) on his results so in that respect he had to go.

As for who comes in now - Lots of reports suggesting Van Gaal. He's no spring chicken, is mad as a fish and has the ego to bang a few heads together but I'd trust him with bringing players in. The problem is we really do need players and LVG likes to save money, adapting the players he already has and promoting Youth. I'm sure this will please the Glazers no end providing (if Moyes sacking is anything to go by) he gets Champions League Football. Arsenal anybody ?
 
It's so rare for a new manager to keep the backroom staff on though, isn't it. I genuinely do not believe he was attack minded enough for you in the same way that Roy wasn't for us.

Maureen would have made you as entertaining as Chelsea, but you'd be winners.
 
I don't know enough about football to make a real contribution but, I do have a couple of questions re. Man. U.

Who at Man. U. spotted, and understood what Ferguson was capable of?

Are there any up and coming managers around today who possess the same abilities?

Would Man U. take that risk?

Are we now in the age of the "ubermanager", whose own career is more important to them than any one club (arguably) - Guardiola, Mourinho, et. al?

If so, do Man U forget the idea of a long term manager and hire the best available?
 
simon ess said:
I don't know enough about football to make a real contribution but, I do have a couple of questions re. Man. U.

Who at Man. U. spotted, and understood what Ferguson was capable of?

Are there any up and coming managers around today who possess the same abilities?

Would Man U. take that risk?

Are we now in the age of the "ubermanager", whose own career is more important to them than any one club (arguably) - Guardiola, Mourinho, et. al?

If so, do Man U forget the idea of a long term manager and hire the best available?
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Yes, but they won't be going to Utd.
 
dinners said:
It will certainly be interesting to see how they go about it this time.

I'm not sure Alex Ferguson was against Mourinho in fact they're good pals. It was Sir Bobby that spoke about about Mourinho not being the right sort of person to be at Manchester United. Interestingly Alex Ferguson and Bobby Charlton were both involved in the decision to get rid of Moyes.

Despite Ferguson picking Moyes for the job, things could have been different for Moyes had he gone about things differently. Whilst he made it clear that he wouldn't stand in the way of Moyes doing things his own way, Ferguson wasn't pleased about him getting rid of Rene Meulensteen, Eric Steele, and Mike Phelan. These were the guys that had as much to do with the players as Ferguson and according to various reports it was this clear out that had a huge impact on the players.

Nobody knows whether Moyes would have gone on to be a success had he been given the time but had he retained Meulensteen, Steele, and Phelan and had Ed Woodward (David Gill's replacement) not cocked up trying to get Moyes a couple of targets early doors, then he may well have got a Champions League spot and still be in a position to go on and prove himself.

All said and done, I said when he was appointed that I would judge him (like any other manager) on his results so in that respect he had to go.

As for who comes in now - Lots of reports suggesting Van Gaal. He's no spring chicken, is mad as a fish and has the ego to bang a few heads together but I'd trust him with bringing players in. The problem is we really do need players and LVG likes to save money, adapting the players he already has and promoting Youth. I'm sure this will please the Glazers no end providing (if Moyes sacking is anything to go by) he gets Champions League Football. Arsenal anybody ?
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The23rdman said:
It's so rare for a new manager to keep the backroom staff on though, isn't it. I genuinely do not believe he was attack minded enough for you in the same way that Roy wasn't for us.

Maureen would have made you as entertaining as Chelsea, but you'd be winners.
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He wasn't attack minded, I agree with you there. Had he worked with the existing backroom staff (who did have experience of winning) that may have changed. We'll never know.
 
Interesting first half in the Real Madrid v Bayern game. Lots of possession for Bayern as you would expect but Real a goal to the good. They could have had three.
 
I'm not watching it. It's rare I get the chance to see full games that aren't Liverpool. I don't like what Guardiola has done to Bayern. They've gone from the most exciting team on Europe to Barca without Messi.
 
Liverpool have announced stadium expansion plans. The new main stand looks great, although not sure the best way is to start with the main stand? (I know facilities are pretty crap in there) I would of thought upgrading Anfield road would of mean't no really big reduction in capacity so that main stand could be completed. Secondly it seems Anfield road may not be upgraded. I suppose depends on whether the stadium is still being filled, although when you see City stadium half empty against Sunderland and Liverpools packed (both a midweek game) its hard to see that it wont be filled.
 
The23rdman said:
I'm not watching it. It's rare I get the chance to see full games that aren't Liverpool. I don't like what Guardiola has done to Bayern. They've gone from the most exciting team on Europe to Barca without Messi.
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Best just watching Bayern highlights, you get all the good stuff without the tippy tappy!!!
 
The23rdman said:
I'm not watching it. It's rare I get the chance to see full games that aren't Liverpool. I don't like what Guardiola has done to Bayern. They've gone from the most exciting team on Europe to Barca without Messi.
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Agreed. It worked for him at Barca but once again it's becoming a bit of a yawn. Interestingly, Beckenbauer has been critical of Bayern's style.
 
Mbuti said:
Liverpool have announced stadium expansion plans.
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Saw the news earlier on Sky Sports.

In all honesty the place is a dump. My LFC pals were on about thes plans the other day saying despite the old school atmosphere they wished Liverpool (if they couldn't get a modern stadium sorted) would expand Anfield stadium without increasing the capacity so they could just have full sized seats.
 
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simon ess said:
I don't know enough about football to make a real contribution but, I do have a couple of questions re. Man. U.

Who at Man. U. spotted, and understood what Ferguson was capable of?
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God knows, it was quite a long time ago. ;)

simon ess said:
Are there any up and coming managers around today who possess the same abilities?
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Probably not to the same degree, in fact I doubt anyone could make such an impact, for so long again. Ferguson had lots of success in Scotland with Aberdeen, taking on the might of Celtic and Rangers and coming out on top over a number of years. Scottish success wouldn't have the same impact today as it did back them imho.

simon ess said:
Would Man U. take that risk?
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Utd have taken the risk with Moyes, and it didn't work/they lost their bottle. I doubt they will go out on too much of a limb again. Although they could really go for it with Giggs. ;)

simon ess said:
Are we now in the age of the "ubermanager", whose own career is more important to them than any one club (arguably) - Guardiola, Mourinho, et. al?
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If clubs get into the era managers getting fired every five minutes, those managers that can go in and can quickly be successful become very valuable. They normally don't have much loyalty because they may have been quickly sacked in the past, maybe they think, unjustly, so they keep it professional and move on when better offers comes along, their club is going off the boil and they jump before getting pushed, or go looking for a new challenge with the associated pay cheque. Because they are successful, they can normally pick and choose. The more they are successful in different situations/countries, the more their reputation rises, and so their wealth.

simon ess said:
If so, do Man U forget the idea of a long term manager and hire the best available?
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I think they were hoping Moyes was going to be the long term answer. I fear unless they go British, and he is successful, and so less likely to move abroad, they will probably have to go short term to short term and hope for continued success. Recently that has only worked with huge amounts of money bankrolling it every year. I don't think Utd have that kind of backing/owners. :rolleyes:
 
dinners said:
Saw the news earlier on Sky Sports.

In all honesty the place is a dump. My LFC pals were on about thes plans the other day saying despite the old school atmosphere they wished Liverpool (if they couldn't get a modern stadium sorted) would expand Anfield stadium without increasing the capacity so they could just have full sized seats.
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That's daft. There is no point spending millions on a stadium without increasing capacity. It's, as you say, in dire need of a revamp.
 
I think dinners post was slightly tongue in cheek. ;-)

The only problem I have had with Liverpool's stadium plans is that I think they should be aiming for about 70,000+ capacity. I was for a new stadium previously but think that staying at Anfield is probably the better idea, but only if it gives them scope to get the capacity they need to compete.

Any plan/design should have had the option to easily expand (which I haven't heard there is) to more than the 60,000 if that is that they are planning now. I thought that raising the capacity and not matching the competition will always leave you behind the largest financially. I fear that unless they make all the changes now, they won't be inclined to make any more changes later because of the cost compared to the small increase in capacity they would get.
 
redhed17 said:
I think dinners post was slightly tongue in cheek. ;-)

The only problem I have had with Liverpool's stadium plans is that I think they should be aiming for about 70,000+ capacity. I was for a new stadium previously but think that staying at Anfield is probably the better idea, but only if it gives them scope to get the capacity they need to compete.

Any plan/design should have had the option to easily expand (which I haven't heard there is) to more than the 60,000 if that is that they are planning now. I thought that raising the capacity and not matching the competition will always leave you behind the largest financially. I fear that unless they make all the changes now, they won't be inclined to make any more changes later because of the cost compared to the small increase in capacity they would get.
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Yeah, early morning posting before brain's engaged. :D
 
redhed17 said:
I think dinners post was slightly tongue in cheek. ;-)

The only problem I have had with Liverpool's stadium plans is that I think they should be aiming for about 70,000+ capacity. I was for a new stadium previously but think that staying at Anfield is probably the better idea, but only if it gives them scope to get the capacity they need to compete.

Any plan/design should have had the option to easily expand (which I haven't heard there is) to more than the 60,000 if that is that they are planning now. I thought that raising the capacity and not matching the competition will always leave you behind the largest financially. I fear that unless they make all the changes now, they won't be inclined to make any more changes later because of the cost compared to the small increase in capacity they would get.
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Depends on the layout. Liverpool are such a 'prestige' name, that financially it might make more sense to keep to 60k and have a decent proportion of corporate seats and expand the corporate area. This is where you can make huge amounts of money per matchday selling to corporates etc.

On a complete side note, congratulations to Sean Dyche for getting Burnley promoted to the Premier League, a great job on limited resources. If I was a Championship chairman I think I'd look at getting an ex Watford manager, last ones have done quite well, Rodgers, Mackay, Dyche.
 
I think the Liverpool owners plan to have a lot of corporate boxes like they did in Boston. I know a lot of money would potentially come from corporate boxes, but no atmosphere comes from them. I'd rather have more bums on seats noisily backing the chaps. :-)
 
redhed17 said:
I think the Liverpool owners plan to have a lot of corporate boxes like they did in Boston. I know a lot of money would potentially come from corporate boxes, but no atmosphere comes from them. I'd rather have more bums on seats noisily backing the chaps. :)
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True, but someone has to pay for the stadium...so it is is generally more corporate areas \ more expensive tickets, or both (I've not looked into how LFC are financing it, or even how much it will cost so I may be wrong of course) ! If done properly it can be ok though, you can keep the atmosphere and have good hospitality. Derby, whilst on a smaller scale, is a great example of this. Newcastle has a pretty big area too but from what I remember.

It is one of the big dangers of course when you develop \ redevelop stadiums, but if done correctly you can maintain or even enhance the atmosphere. Plenty of examples where it's gone the other way or course!
 
I think enhancing the atmosphere will be high on their list of goals.
 
We could always pipe recorded chants over the PA system like they do at Chelsea ;)
 
redhed17 said:
I think the Liverpool owners plan to have a lot of corporate boxes like they did in Boston. I know a lot of money would potentially come from corporate boxes, but no atmosphere comes from them. I'd rather have more bums on seats noisily backing the chaps. :)
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If you look at the view of the main stand from inside the ground, you can clearly see what appears to be a huge corporate area in the middle tier of the proposed stand.

They appear not to be going gung ho with stadium increase and are doing it in stages to ensure they fill it. You never know what will happen four years down the line.
 
Mbuti said:
They appear not to be going gung ho with stadium increase and are doing it in stages to ensure they fill it. You never know what will happen four years down the line.
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I heard on the radio today that there are about 28,000 people on a waiting list for season tickets at Liverpool, so I would be going ahead to try and get as many seats as I could as fast as I could, to try and start getting money off them. At the moment the list is giving nothing but confidence to go ahead with the building. Not everyone may still be in a position to take up a season ticket should one become available, but you plan for more than you need for me.

You hope they know what they are doing though. :)
 
redhed17 said:
I heard on the radio today that there are about 28,000 people on a waiting list for season tickets at Liverpool, so I would be going ahead to try and get as many seats as I could as fast as I could, to try and start getting money off them. At the moment the list is giving nothing but confidence to go ahead with the building. Not everyone may still be in a position to take up a season ticket should one become available, but you plan for more than you need for me.

You hope they know what they are doing though. :)
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I understand the plan is to provide a lot more match tickets to non season ticket holders.
 
redhed17 said:
I heard on the radio today that there are about 28,000 people on a waiting list for season tickets at Liverpool, so I would be going ahead to try and get as many seats as I could as fast as I could, to try and start getting money off them. At the moment the list is giving nothing but confidence to go ahead with the building. Not everyone may still be in a position to take up a season ticket should one become available, but you plan for more than you need for me.

You hope they know what they are doing though. :)
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I wish I was on that waiting list, if they ever allow you to sign up again for one I will be signing up.

A lot of season tickets are sold on at Liverpool as they do not want to give them up!
 
The23rdman said:
I think enhancing the atmosphere will be high on their list of goals.
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Yep, it will be right up there after:
1. Generate more income
2. Generate more income
3. Generate more income
4. Generate more income
5. Generate more income
...
94. Generate more income
...
 
The23rdman said:
I understand the plan is to provide a lot more match tickets to non season ticket holders.
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With enough seats, they could do both. ;)

Liverpool used to, and I'm supposing still do, how to say it, look favourably on match day ticket applications from outside Liverpool, preferably the further away the better, as those people tend to visit the merchandise shop. :rolleyes: Good business sense, but it p****s off the locals. ;)

Still, when you have a global fan base they want to see the team too, and may not be able to do it that often in their lives, you try to keep them happy too.
 
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redhed17 said:
With enough seats, they could do both. ;)

Liverpool used to, and I'm supposing still do, how to say it, look favourably on match day ticket applications from outside Liverpool, preferably the further away the better, as those people tend to visit the merchandise shop. :rolleyes: Good business sense, but it p****s off the locals. ;)

Still, when you have a global fan base they want to see the team too, and may not be able to do it that often in their lives, you try to keep them happy too.
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I'd love the chance to get to some games, but now it's virtually impossible.
 
The23rdman said:
I'd love the chance to get to some games, but now it's virtually impossible.
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Impossible for the better sides in the league but the bottom clubs it is really easy to get tickets for, I hoping to get to at least 10 games next year.
 
Mbuti said:
Impossible for the better sides in the league but the bottom clubs it is really easy to get tickets for, I hoping to get to at least 10 games next year.
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I mean for Anfield. :)
 
Mbuti said:
Impossible for the better sides in the league but the bottom clubs it is really easy to get tickets for, I hoping to get to at least 10 games next year.
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There's always room at City unless it's Derby day ;)
 
dinners said:
There's always room at City unless it's Derby day ;)
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Haha I mentioned this to a colleague who is a city fan that against Sunderland (mid week game) the stadium was empty, Liverpool against Sunderland (mid week game) it was packed!
 
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