The Football Thread - Season 2012/2013

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The 4 games for each of the other offences may not have been given to someone without his history though. There's nothing in the rules that says if a player is involved in a scuffle after being sent off, that it's automatically punishable as per a red card. This is probably just how it was interpreted in Barton's case because of his previous.

I'll have to disagree with that one. The report of bartons ban did not mention anything about previous incidents. It clearly stated the extra 8 game ban was for the two acts of violent conduct to aguero and kompany. Nothing about any games added due to the players history or previous convictions
 
As for other sports and biting....

Rugby players receive huge bans for such incidents often 20 games yet they just get on with it without the frenzy from their supporters. They understand that it is the players OWN fault in the first place. Mind you, us rugby players/fans are far more intelligent about administration than football fans.

The 'gentleman' of the oval ball in indulge in such behaviour on a more regular basis than football. Yes, some have had longer bans, but then they have almost bitten bits of people off. :eek:

The fact that Suarez has a bit of "previous" for this sort of offence, and given that he has already had an FA ban for another piece of less charming behaviour, tells me that this was about right.

I was wondering why you were defending him, until I saw your location and avatar:)

You can always rely on a football supporter for an unbiased view, particularly when it involves one of their team's players:lol:

And if you had read back further, you'd have seen that I said Suarez should get a long ban, but I'm asking for consistency.

Previously Suarez was banned for racially abusing another player, fair enough, but I think it was on one players word against another. In the Terry case, there was enough evidence for the Police to take him to court. I don't think that was considered in the Suarez - Evra incident. And although the court case was dismissed, the FA
Banned (him) for four matches and given a £220,000 fine for using insulting words which included a reference to Anton Ferdinand's colour or race following an FA independent regulatory commission hearing.
So half the ban of Suarez, when there was more evidence. :shrug: And even though both incidents were about the same time, because Terry's case was manipulated for him to carry on playing for England in Euro 2012, it gave the FA a lot of time to consider their response to the incident, and somehow came back with a ban of half of what Suarez got. :thinking:

In the Defoe incident, the FA may or may not be able to to retrospectively go back and impose further penalties on the player. :shrug: Can a player bring the game into disrepute, and be punished for it at any time though? :shrug:

With the Defoe incident, on the field that day, biting another player, because the Ref saw it didn't he, was considered a Yellow card offence. If the officials don't see it, it is a 10 match ban. :eek: That's a big disparity in the consequences of the same offence. :shrug: The media said so little about it at the time, that I didn't even remember the incident. :thinking: So I don't remember people asking for Defoe to be kicked out the country and sold. Ah, that's right he's British, they seemingly play under different rules than the foreign players. See Terry point above. ;)

And again if you read back a bit further, you will have seen that I think something should be able to be done to a player even if an incident is seen and punished by a Referee. That is not being questioned again though. :shrug:
 
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I'll have to disagree with that one. The report of bartons ban did not mention anything about previous incidents. It clearly stated the extra 8 game ban was for the two acts of violent conduct to aguero and kompany. Nothing about any games added due to the players history or previous convictions

You need to read my post again Joe. I said that a player without his history may not have got so harsh a punishment. Whilst the report didn't specifically mention his previous, it doesn't necessarily mean it didn't influence their decision.
 
You need to read my post again Joe. I said that a player without his history may not have got so harsh a punishment. Whilst the report didn't specifically mention his previous, it doesn't necessarily mean it didn't influence their decision.

I understand what you are saying and if you can show me a player who tried to headbutt someone whilst leaving the pitch that didn't get charged with violent conduct I'll probably agree with you.
 
With the Defoe incident, on the field that day, biting another player, because the Ref saw it didn't he, was considered a Yellow card offence. If the officials don't see it, it is a 10 match ban. :eek:

The rules have evolved since then, who knows what they were thinking? Why not bring up a headbut from a game in 1988, like someone on RAWK has.

I hope the FA reasons are just as controversial as the 10 game ban. However much one liverpool supporter claims to laugh at other peoples' envy of not having suarez in their team, it's nothing compared to this :nuts:
 
I understand what you are saying and if you can show me a player who tried to headbutt someone whilst leaving the pitch that didn't get charged with violent conduct I'll probably agree with you.

I didn't say they wouldn't get charged, just that the punishment may be less severe if thy had previous. It's possible that the panel may consider the incidents post sending off as one case and maybe only give a 3/4 game ban.
 
I understand what you are saying and if you can show me a player who tried to headbutt someone whilst leaving the pitch that didn't get charged with violent conduct I'll probably agree with you.

what did norman hunter and franny lee get for their punch up in the 70's? :lol:
 
I didn't say they wouldn't get charged, just that the punishment may be less severe if thy had previous. It's possible that the panel may consider the incidents post sending off as one case and maybe only give a 3/4 game ban.

and if you can show me evidence of that happening in recent years then I'll probably agree with you
 
and if you can show me evidence of that happening in recent years then I'll probably agree with you

You want me to show you evidence of what MAY have happened?

All I've done is point out other possibilities yet you're still arguing, and you wonder why you get the reactions you do!
 
You want me to show you evidence of what MAY have happened?

All I've done is point out other possibilities yet you're still arguing, and you wonder why you get the reactions you do!

I''m at a complete loss to how to respond to that.

I'm having a friendly conversation with you saying I totally understand what you are saying and that if I saw evidence of somebody in recent years that did have a violent incident and got less of a ban than Barton had because they didn't have any previous that I'd be in agreement with you

and this is the response I get? Marc I'm sorry but in this instance I really feel like you are the one that's just been unreasonable towards me.

All I've done is politely tell you I understand where you are coming from and tell you that I could be in complete agreement with your point.

I don't know what else I'm supposed to say.
 
The 'gentleman' of the oval ball in indulge in such behaviour on a more regular basis than football. Yes, some have had longer bans, but then they have almost bitten bits of people off. :eek:

And if you had read back further, you'd have seen that I said Suarez should get a long ban, but I'm asking for consistency.

Previously Suarez was banned for racially abusing another player, fair enough, but I think it was on one players word against another. In the Terry case, there was enough evidence for the Police to take him to court. I don't think that was considered in the Suarez - Evra incident. And although the court case was dismissed, the FA So half the ban of Suarez, when there was more evidence. :shrug: And even though both incidents were about the same time, because Terry's case was manipulated for him to carry on playing for England in Euro 2012, it gave the FA a lot of time to consider their response to the incident, and somehow came back with a ban of half of what Suarez got. :thinking:

In the Defoe incident, the FA may or may not be able to to retrospectively go back and impose further penalties on the player. :shrug: Can a player bring the game into disrepute, and be punished for it at any time though? :shrug:

With the Defoe incident, on the field that day, biting another player, because the Ref saw it didn't he, was considered a Yellow card offence. If the officials don't see it, it is a 10 match ban. :eek: That's a big disparity in the consequences of the same offence. :shrug: The media said so little about it at the time, that I didn't even remember the incident. :thinking: So I don't remember people asking for Defoe to be kicked out the country and sold. Ah, that's right he's British, they seemingly play under different rules than the foreign players. See Terry point above. ;)

And again if you read back a bit further, you will have seen that I think something should be able to be done to a player even if an incident is seen and punished by a Referee. That is not being questioned again though. :shrug:

Weren't you arguing that incidents need to be dealt with in isolation re: Giroud a couple of days ago? Now it suits your defence of Suarez, the Defoe situation is of huge relevance.
 
I see Liverpool are once again today making Suarez feel justified in a sense of persecution for his own antics.

Surely they need to realise his actions cause the punishment rather creating the sort of victim mentality that will cause the opposite.

Liverpool should have just banned Suarez till the end of the season. Other clubs ban their own players. That would have sent a clear message to say that they were in control and the FA may then have just added a couple of games on top.

Suarez will just end up having another hissy fit a few months down the line if people let him think he's been dealt with harshly.
 
The rules have evolved since then, who knows what they were thinking?

They have evolved from no red card, and zero ban, to 10 games. :thinking: :shake:

Why not bring up a headbut from a game in 1988, like someone on RAWK has.

Because it is a biting incident, and I was comparing like with like. :shrug:

I hope the FA reasons are just as controversial as the 10 game ban. However much one liverpool supporter claims to laugh at other peoples' envy of not having suarez in their team, it's nothing compared to this :nuts:

Are you talking about me, other people here, or other websites? :thinking:

I think most people would be envious of a player who can score 20+ goals a season, because they are not that common. He is very skilful, and (football wise) exciting to watch and can do things at times that others can't do. Of course the negative side of him far outweighs the positives for the vast majority of people. Be in no doubt though, he is valued at £40m+ for a reason, and if Liverpool decided to sell, there would be many willing takers.

I posted a link earlier in this thread about the hypocrisy in football, and fans views become a bit more flexible (sadly) when a player in your own team does something(s) morally questionable. Add to that that we, as fans, have virtually no say in who signs or plays for our clubs, so what can you do? Nothing.
 
Quite a good article here in The Guardian....

Only surprise about Luis Suárez's 10-match ban is Liverpool's shock

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/24/luis-suarez-liverpool

I don't really follow any top flight team nowadays, but that article is pretty spot on IMO.
As one of the comments pointed out, Suarez got a 7/8 month ban in Holland following his rabid chomping, so I guess a couple more games ban here is about right. I would have to say, that if he ever did it again, then a lifetime ban (taken outside by a pest control officer and despatched humanely) would be in order.;)
 
Suarez will just end up having another hissy fit a few months down the line if people let him think he's been dealt with harshly.

He has been dealt with harshly. So there is no "making him feel like he has" happening. The club are simply responding in a reasonable manner to an unreasonable ban
 
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The funniest thing about all this is that nobody is talking about the fact that Man united just won their 20th title. Nobody is interested. I don't think I've ever known such little attention given to a title win before, on all kinds of media.
 
Surely what we should all be saying is 'well done FA for setting a strict punishment - now go and treat other misdemeanours just as harsh and get some much needed discipline back in the game'.

It's embarrassing to hear Liverpool fans bleating about unfairness and victimisation.

The FA need to look at retrospective punishments and use them far better and knock some sense into these prima donnas.
 
So, if Suarez does have a genuine neurological problem, how did he get past the medical at anfield?

if in doubt
throw some pseudo-science out

next week on king brenny's wonderful brave new world

180 pages of new age thinking - including

suarez- his chakra's aren't aligned

reina- how reiki cured my baldness

stevie gee- homeopathy cured me of my genesis based psychopathy

carragher- crystal healing solved my groin but gave me a ribena head

raheem sterling- rhino horn gives me the horn, but makes me view women as punchbags

with a foreword by tommy smith- I couldn't walk but after using magnets I was able to not only walk but to take a penalty at wembley while on the disabled dough

also- Emlyn Hughes interview (with derek acorah and spirit guide 'sam')

The above is not my work...I shamelessly borrowed it from a footie forum.
 
Weren't you arguing that incidents need to be dealt with in isolation re: Giroud a couple of days ago? Now it suits your defence of Suarez, the Defoe situation is of huge relevance.

I'm not defending Suarez, because you can't defend his actions. I was asking for consistency. Judge the incident, if it is a red card, then it's a red card. Yes, the severity of the incident has some sway, to make any bans longer, but who the player is should not. Was the Defoe incident not worthy of a red card and ban? Judging by controversy regarding the Suarez incident, then yes. If he wasn't judged as to have been penalised enough at the time, then there should be the option to change that later.

Should Terry have got the same length of ban, or something similar as Suarez? In those cases, they've both been judged to have used racist language after the fact, so should not both have got similar punishment? :shrug: I'm not saying the Suarez ban was too short, I'm saying for the same offence, and this time, committed virtually at the same time, Terry should have got the same long ban.

I have said throughout that Suarez deserves a long ban. I was highlighting how very similar incidents have been judged, for whatever reasons, lesser offences. Those cases should have got the same, or very similar to what Suarez has got because the incidents were similar. The same rules for all.

Giroud's foul was a red card offence imho. Was an offence committed? Yes. What is normally given for the same offence? x number of games. Was this worse in any way? If yes, then add more games to the ban, if not then you know what you are going to get. Start with the normal punishment and offence once it has been judged to be an infraction. If it is judged to have been worse later, because the Ref can only send someone off, then punish them more, not dilute any punishments.
 
Are you talking about me, other people here, or other websites? :thinking:

No, you do come across as very reasonable ;)
I might be talking about someone else here. I can't remember, as most of his clever quipps are ripped straight from RAWK. He's still at it, thinking Man United have forgotten the 20th title win already :nuts:
 
I think Brendon Rogers is getting his lines from RAWK to be honest.

I know you get a "Bitterly Dissapointed" from every interview he does but did he really say "He hasn't let me down one bit" ?

There was a caller on the radio explaining how very let down he feels not just as a Liverpool fan of 50 years but a football fan. He was fuming at Rogers for having the cheek to say that having been at the club for 5 minutes.

Liverpool FC / Manager and Players have obviously come out and had their say - but prior to seeing the report.

Wasn't that where they dropped a clanger last time around ?
 
Brenda is in damage limitation mode. For him to say he hasn't been let down by Suarez is an amazing and stupid thing to say. He knows that if Suarez leaves, and he's engineering another move brilliantly as he did in Holland (twice), then Brenda is out of a job. Simple as that. There is no other player at Liverpool who can win them things. Stevie-MBE & Jamie-La, the 2 most determined to win players there, are past it now. The rest of the team is lightweight and just doesn't have the heart.
 
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The most a prem player can be fined is 6 weeks wages but it has to be extreme circumstances.... Mr Taylor said so last night......I wonder what extreme circumstances are?

As for folks moaning that the FA and their rules are unlawful in a UK court ...... it has nothing to do with UK law unless they contravene employment laws. A player can be be banned from playing etc but he is still employed. If the club want to sack a player they will need to follow the strict UK regulations.

Any way......how is footie predictor doing?
 
From the BBC

Luis Suarez: Brendan Rodgers' defence overplayed and misplaced

Kind of sums it all up for me.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22302801

In the hours after Luis Suarez's bite on Chelsea defender Branislav Ivanovic, Liverpool looked to have learned the lessons from the public relations shambles that accompanied the Uruguayan's last brush with authority.

Liverpool - and then manager Kenny Dalglish - were heavily criticised for their defiance and defence of Suarez following the incident which ended with the striker being fined £40,000 and suspended for eight games after being found guilty of racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra.
Play media

On Sunday, in the aftermath of the 2-2 draw against Chelsea at Anfield, boss Brendan Rodgers and managing director Ian Ayre were swift in their condemnation of Suarez and the player issued a statement expressing his own contrition.

Rodgers spoke about Liverpool's "incredible values and ethics" with a warning that no-one was bigger than the club. Those inside Anfield received credit for their quick response.

Since then, however, Liverpool's statements have gone into reverse gear to such an extent that the media briefing held by Rodgers on Thursday afternoon ended with Suarez cast in the role of target for Football Association persecution as opposed to someone who had bitten - not for the first time - a fellow professional.

Liverpool appear so gripped by fear of losing the 26-year-old that they are now in serious danger of repeating some of the mistakes that damaged their image during the Evra saga while also transforming Suarez into a figure who is bigger than the club.

No-one would expect Liverpool to cast the £40m-rated Suarez adrift or fail to offer him any support after he was hit with a 10-match ban. Indeed, Rodgers will have hit plenty of the right notes with some fans and the striker's fellow team-mates.

And the idea that Liverpool should sacrifice a world-class player and valuable asset to make a moral point was also a nonsense - which other club in the world would do the same?
Controversial Luis Suarez
Branislav Ivanovic

But Rodgers' statements were made even before seeing the FA's report outlining the reasons for the punishment and it may have been the wiser course to keep his counsel until then. Caution should have been the manager's watchword - but it seems he was unable to toe that line.

Rodgers could have scoured the written reasons and mounted his argument based on that information instead of choosing to launch a wide-ranging attack on the suspension handed to Suarez and the processes used in arriving at the decision.

Instead, Rodgers almost made it sound like Suarez had been the victim of a plot hatched by the game's establishment rather than a repeat offender who has failed to learn from previous sanctions or curb his excesses by sinking his teeth, without provocation, into Ivanovic's arm.

Rodgers said the suspension handed out by the FA for his bite on Ivanovic "is against the man rather than the incident".

Here, Liverpool's manager misses the point spectacularly. In this case, the man had to be considered when inflicting the punishment.

Suarez has been warned about his future conduct before, but Sunday's shocking incident suggests he is either unwilling or unable to heed that message. "The man" has been involved in too many incidents for his previous history to simply be ignored.

If this had been Suarez's first biting offence it would have been bad enough, but Rodgers has to accept that he is a repeat offender. So "the man" must be part of the disciplinary equation.

Liverpool, and it is understandable they make this point, recall Jermain Defoe biting Javier Mascherano and escaping a heavy ban. He was booked at the time but the rulebook has moved along since then and today it is certain he would be charged under "exceptional circumstances".

Suarez's bite on PSV Eindhoven's Otman Bakkal in 2010 was not part of the deliberations this time but he accepted a seven-game ban without complaint so Rodgers' suggestion that "it could have been 12 - six with six suspended" - was effectively plucked from thin air.
Play media

Is Suarez's 10-game ban too long?

Rodgers also brought culture into the argument as he said: "If you look at South American players they do whatever it takes to win. This is the way they have been brought up. To fight for their lives."

This may be the case but not too many South American imports to the Premier League have had to admit their guilt for biting another player - so once again this is a subject Rodgers might have been wise to avoid.

Liverpool may yet appeal against the ban - they seem aggrieved enough to do so. It is their right if they feel Suarez has been unjustly treated, but the club and their manager must also tread a fine line between backing the player, who it appears they simply cannot contemplate living without, and turning him into a martyr no matter what offences he commits.

It would not have suited our purposes in the media had Rodgers restricted his comments on Thursday and waited to read all the written submissions on the case.

It might, however, have suited Liverpool's.
 
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Re extending the ban, because the fa have several cases of previously done this to failed appeals. Ferdinand immediately springs to mind. They called his appeal frivolous.

So you saying that you dont know it but are assuming it due to the law of averages?
 
So you saying that you dont know it but are assuming it due to the law of averages?

More often than not, if a ban is appealed the FA are likely to tack on another game for a frivolous appeal. It's not very often that a ban is reduced on appeal. And given the noises coming from Brenda today, he is going to ire the FA.
 
From the BBC

Luis Suarez: Brendan Rodgers' defence overplayed and misplaced

Kind of sums it all up for me.....

blah blah blah

Just reads like more overreaction.

Can someone actually point me to this so called damage? What actual mesaurable damage has there been from last years racism incident?

Have liverpool lost sponsers?
Have they lost season tickets?
Has their annual turnover of merchandise dropped?
Tv deals - have they dropped?
Shirt sales - have they dropped?
Suarez value - has this dropped below what liverpool paid for him?

Where is this damage? What form does it take and exactly how has it affected the club in a way that is measurable? Not just someone saying "its affected the reputation etc"

Where is the damage and how has it actually affected anything?

and I'm not saying there is none - i don't know so I want to know what it is since I keep reading about it
 
Just reads like more overreaction.

Can someone actually point me to this so called damage? What actual mesaurable damage has there been from last years racism incident?

Have liverpool lost sponsers?
Have they lost season tickets?
Has their annual turnover of merchandise dropped?
Tv deals - have they dropped?
Shirt sales - have they dropped?
Suarez value - has this dropped below what liverpool paid for him?

Where is this damage? What form does it take and exactly how has it affected the club in a way that is measurable? Not just someone saying "its affected the reputation etc"

Where is the damage and how has it actually affected anything?

and I'm not saying there is none - i don't know so I want to know what it is since I keep reading about it

The worldwide presence has certainly been damaged by these incidents. You know quite well that it's not damage with regards to fans (season tickets, shirt sales, other merchandise), as the majority of fans think that Suarez & Liverpool are the victims in this. It's the damage done by how other people, organisations, future sponsors, the press perceive Liverpool FC. I highly doubt you'll agree that the reputation of Liverpool FC is damaged, as you see your club with red tinted glasses. But the name and reputation, which means a helluva lot, of your club has been dragged through the mud with regards to Suarez!

How do you know Suarez's value hasn't dropped? Liverpool haven't issued any market value, and no team has made an offer......He's damaged goods and a risk for any team to take him on given his disciplinary problems.
 
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As an actual Liverpool fan from Liverpool I think I have more authority than most other 'reds' on here to offer an opinion :naughty: My opinion of the whole incident is, meh. The boy was a douche and he's paying the consequences. Whatever the manager is saying to the press is of no importance to me whatsoever as managers come and go. Not even arsed who the manager is. Also, anything Jamie Carragher says is surely not supposed to be taken seriously right?

I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate Salford United on their championship victory.

ALSO!! The british were the first to call it 'soccer' :cool:
 
The worldwide presence has certainly been damaged by these incidents. You know quite well that it's not damage with regards to fans (season tickets, shirt sales, other merchandise), as the majority of fans think that Suarez & Liverpool are the victims in this. It's the damage done by how other people, organisations, future sponsors, the press perceive Liverpool FC. I highly doubt you'll agree that the reputation of Liverpool FC is damaged, as you see your club with red tinted glasses. But the name and reputation, which means a helluva lot, of your club has been dragged through the mud with regards to Suarez!

What affect has all of this actually had though? I'm looking for measurable evidence to prove that damage has been done. All of this is hearsay - actual evidence would be along the lines of:

A sponsor pulling out or a non sponser saying they wouldn't ever sponser liverpool

Can anyone show me actual measurable evidence to backup this claim of damage? I'm honestly open to listen to it.

How do you know Suarez's value hasn't dropped? Liverpool haven't issued any market value, and no team has made an offer......He's damaged goods and a risk for any team to take him on given his disciplinary problems.

I don't know his value hasn't dropped thats why I said ...

Suarez value - has this dropped below what liverpool paid for him?
 
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