The Football Thread - Season 2012/2013

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HOPEFULY! This might wake up Wenger and the Board to smell the coffee.

Congratulations to Bradford and there fans, a day they will never forget.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Arsenal wage spend last year £143mil, Spurs wage spend, sub £90mil, Spurs finished 1 point behind us, and it took Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool(over more season) to have complete meltdowns to let us up into third and realistically into even 4th last season.

Miracle, we are by a HUGE margin the 4th highest spenders in the league, we have the 4th most expensive squad, 4th is the essentially breaking even, below fourth is a bad season, above 4th is a fully attainable target, as is the title. Do I expect to win every year, no, do I expect to be in the fight and competitive, sure. Do I expect when we get into a final against Brum, that it takes a HUGE amount of errors and bad luck to not lose, yes. Do I expect a "meh" performance, because that is all we can produce, no I don't, its unprofessional.

Gervinho was diabolically awful, he missed the easiest chance I've seen this season, and I FULLY EXPECTED him to, he's been truly horrendous since we signed him. Now, a one off signing going to crap, I can get behind that, people react badly to moves, sometimes form disappears, thats all part and parcel of football. But more transfer than not end up that way for Arsenal and more crucially, when a player is truly awful I expect them to be dropped, and when a player is absolutely brilliant and shows quality or potential, I expect them to get games or chances respectively.

Our youngsters who show the MOST potential are getting next to no starts, even the ones who don't look as good but Wenger likes(Gnabry) has gotten what 1-2 games, 1-2 sub appearances. Fergie would give a player like Eisfeld of Gnabry(think macheda or Welbeck) plenty of chances in mostly the right games, Wenger won't. Arshavin is consistently excellent for us, he produces assists, goals, turns games around and looks a class above most of what we have, yet can't get a game.

Coming 4th, while playing players who are consistenly awful, refusing to give some players a chance, and pushing out quality players is not good at all, let alone good enough. Progress, is possible under ANY budget, it requires fixing mistakes, pushing out the worst players and replacing them, that might be with a free 17yr old who shows potential, who fails, then you try another kid. Sticking with a known awful player is nothing short of bad managing. Arsenal have spent half a billion in the past 4 seasons on wages..... and won nothing, I'd have to add them all up but I would guesstimate around 850million in wages in the past 8 years, without winning a thing, couldn't even beat Brum in a "easy" final. Do we have the right to win that final, no, but the fact that we couldn't get up for that game, couldn't put in a good performance, had the SAME years old problems in that game AND massive managerial mistakes in the lead up to the game that NO other manager would have made.

Anyone who thinks Arsenal dont' spend MASSIVELY is simply ill informed or deluded, I very much doubt there is a club anywhere near as unsuccessful in the past 8 years who has spent anywhere near as much as we have. Spurs have spent a lot less and still won a cup, more importantly, they've improved, gotten champs league, sustained Euro football, an increasingly quality squad.

If you want to look at a team doing well, everton spend around £60mil in wages because they have smeg all other money and are in debt.... £143mil last year... Arsenal spend over 50% more than the next lowest spending team in the league, we spend OVER twice what a team like Everton spend... and Everton are significantly outperforming us on the pitch this year.
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There's so much of this I vehemently disagree with. Sadly, I'm done with debating football for a little while at least.
 
The23rdman said:
Joe, the whole point is they shouldn't have been taken to pens in the first place. I suspect the vitriol would have been no different if they had won on pens.
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cambsno said:
It's one thing if we pepper their goal all game, have 25 shots on target and keeper plays a blinder, but we were awful again. Would u have been happy had Liverpool played like that. A team like arsenal should never be taken to pens against Bradford.
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That may or may not be the point but once it's taken to pens due to the managers bad managing it's then totally on the individual players.

The manager failed but the players, well three of them. We're awful in the penalty shoot out. Getting the game to a pen shoot out may well have been the managers fault. But the players are to blame for losing it.
 
Do you think it time for wenger to leave? Who would replace him? Mouriniho??
 
ANd to prove he has no idea...

Should not be embarressed, gave it everything... not from what I saw... how can no shots on target against a L2 side until 69 mins be other than embarressing? Stop insulting the fans.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger says his side should not be embarrassed by their Capital One Cup quarter-final defeat at League Two Bradford.

The Gunners lost 3-2 on penalties after snatching a late 1-1 draw in normal time at Coral Windows Stadium.

"We did absolutely everything for 120 minutes and you have to give credit to Bradford," said Wenger.

"You feel embarrassed when you don't give everything, I think they'll be more disappointed and frustrated."

Wenger selected a strong side for Tuesday's tie but they were unable to exert themselves on the hosts and needed an 88th-minute equalising goal from Thomas Vermaelen to send the game to extra-time after Garry Thompson had given the home side the lead in the first half.

But the Frenchman refused to criticise his side, who have won just one of their last six games in all competitions.

"It was a great cup tie on a tough pitch and I cannot fault the effort from my players," said Wenger. "It was a typical English cup tie and Bradford got on top of us.
 
d1ddy84 said:
Do you think it time for wenger to leave? Who would replace him? Mouriniho??
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In an ideal world, yes... More realistically then Moyes would be great, not used to money and over achieves. I am also impressed with how Martinez does too. There are probably managers outside the prem too who would be worth a shot.
 
The premier league are considering dropping the investigation into Liverpool tapping up Clint Dempsey,the complaint was made in July!!!!!!!:D
 
cambsno said:
In an ideal world, yes... More realistically then Moyes would be great, not used to money and over achieves. I am also impressed with how Martinez does too. There are probably managers outside the prem too who would be worth a shot.
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Everyone accepts Moyes is a good manager, well nearly everyone.

But you would really swap Wenger for Martinez? :shrug:

Tony Adams is available I believe....:suspect:
 
akr said:
Everyone accepts Moyes is a good manager, well nearly everyone.

But you would really swap Wenger for Martinez? :shrug:

Tony Adams is available I believe....:suspect:
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All I know is that we are a bloody shambles this season! Why not Martinez? All managers need to start somewhere.
 
Here's a summary of the meeting of fans and certain senior members of the Arsenal this evening (pre-arranged, not a crisis meeting, I hasten to add) from one of my favourite people on twitter. He's not a very pro-Wenger person anymore so I'm not selecting people to match my views, but he's reliable with information and is a very committed fan. He knows our finances inside out, too. Quotes are paraphrased for twitter, sentiment unchanged:

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "not the evening your feeling most christmas cheer, I know you all care, and we are here to listen to you"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "tired of saving same message so won't do so, last night wasn't good enough, and made many of us angry"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "the support was amazing,and they deserved better, and its something we need to put right"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "we are desperate to deliver that success, and only by talking to those of us here, will you understand that we will"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "I don't pretend we get everything right, but we really do try to"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "We built our revenues we built our reserves we need to do better how we spend that money"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "You will see players joining epl from italy and spain especially from outside top 2 teams"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "We are a club that's under pressure"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "Squad needs something, we've got money to spend, but does that mean that he's (players) available, that's something else. "

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "No plans for a share issue"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "This can't be the board of directors for next 10 years, this issue will develop"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "My communications with Stan are generally about team performance, obviously he's not happy with the way the team is performing"
 
Now the Mirror and Telegraph are choosing to quote Stewart Robson of all people about Wenger and Arsenal. I don't think there's anyone less suitable to pass judgement on the club! Still, I'm sure everything he says must be a journalists' wet dream.
 
cambsno said:
All I know is that we are a bloody shambles this season! Why not Martinez? All managers need to start somewhere.
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I would say that would be change for changes sake, and a risky one at that. Ultimately Wenger has had you top 4 for ever, Champions League past group stages for ever. You lose that for a period of time, I think you might find you'd be dreaming of top 4 finishes again, and \ or adopting a let's get massively in debt model.

Someone like Martinez could of course work out, but if both him and Wenger were unemployed, would you really pick him over Wenger?

Anyway, I'm going to go back to analysing the reverse invicibles - we have Fulham on Sat - we could go 4 matches unbeaten as well as extending the Premier League record to 17 games. I look forward to freezing for 90 minutes of pure football pleasure!
 
TriggerHappy said:
Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "We built our revenues we built our reserves we need to do better how we spend that money"


Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "We are a club that's under pressure"

Darren ‏@DarrenArsenal1
Ivan "Squad needs something, we've got money to spend, but does that mean that he's (players) available, that's something else. "
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To translate - we have money to spend, but we are not going to! :)
 
TriggerHappy said:
Now the Mirror and Telegraph are choosing to quote Stewart Robson of all people about Wenger and Arsenal. I don't think there's anyone less suitable to pass judgement on the club! Still, I'm sure everything he says must be a journalists' wet dream.
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i listened to Robson on talksport yesterday morning... my god.. talk about a man with a chip on his shoulder. He was talking about Arsenal as if they'd all shagged his missus he was so bitter. Embarrassing :shake:
 
leftcurl said:
i listened to Robson on talksport yesterday morning... my god.. talk about a man with a chip on his shoulder. He was talking about Arsenal as if they'd all shagged his missus he was so bitter. Embarrassing :shake:
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He's an absolute embarrassment. The problem is that people don't realise quite how despised he is by everyone left linked with Arsenal and consequently assume he's got a lot of inside knowledge about the club, which he likely doesn't.

He's the only person I've ever heard mention a rift between Wenger and Bould. I've never heard anybody else mention even a hint of such a rift existing. I tuned in to Talksport about 6 weeks ago and he was talking about it then (it's not a coincidence that was the last time I turned TalkSport on!) and now the papers are choosing to quote him on it after he repeated it again. I just hope enough Arsenal fans are aware of how he's turned on the club since he stopped being involved in Arsenal TV. I don't think the full details of why the split happened are in the public domain but the massive shift in his attitude suggests it was a rather unpleasant split for him.
 
Few suggestions that Sturridge to Liverpool is a done deal now on Twitter. Mix of reliable sources and not so. Great deal for Liverpool if so!
 
joescrivens said:
Depends on the price. £5 million mark then yes. £15 million mark then no.
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I've no idea what his current contract etc is but he's got some potential if (as Joe says) the money is right. You never know with Liverpool though - they continue to find the funds to splash record money but also play the poverty card. There's something that needs sorting there.

On a different note

What do you think of the England U21 Serbia / Danny Rose outcome - talk about blinkered :thinking:

Slapped wrists all around for both sides - nothing more than improper conduct and a lack of evidence of racial problems.:bonk:
 
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dinners said:
I've no idea what his current contract etc is but he's got some potential if (as Joe says) the money is right. You never know with Liverpool though - they continue to find the funds to splash record money but also play the poverty card. There's something that needs sorting there.
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:thinking:

how do you work that out?

Fabio Borini £10,000,000
Joe Allen £15,000,000
Oussama Assaidi £2,300,000
Samed Yesil £1,000,000

Thats our current season spending, and then 8 million came in (more actually, as rodriguez was not disclosed) so it has been an overall spend of 20 mil minus rodriguez. I don't see any "record money" in those transfers. You can't be talking about the season before with downing, henderson and caroll because you are saying they "continue to find the funds" implying it is still happening.
 
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dinners said:
On a different note

What do you think of the England U21 Serbia / Danny Rose outcome - talk about blinkered :thinking:

Slapped wrists all around for both sides - nothing more than improper conduct and a lack of evidence of racial problems.:bonk:
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:thinking:

are you on the sauce phil?

Thomas ince and Steven Caulker banned for 1 and 2 games
four serbian players banned for between 2 and 4 games
2 coaches suspended for 2 years
Serbia have to play their next u21 match behing closed doors
Serbia fined £65,000
 
TriggerHappy said:
Few suggestions that Sturridge to Liverpool is a done deal now on Twitter. Mix of reliable sources and not so. Great deal for Liverpool if so!
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Jury is out. Depends how much we've paid and whether BR can coach him to pass!
 
joescrivens said:
Depends on the price. £5 million mark then yes. £15 million mark then no.
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It's most likely to be around the 10m mark. I'd imagine Chelski will suggest he is a much more proven goalscorer than Borini and we paid that for him.
 
joescrivens said:
:thinking:

how do you work that out?

You can't be talking about the season before with downing, henderson and caroll because you are saying they "continue to find the funds" implying it is still happening.
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You have quoted me there and then chosen a very specific cut off point to support your view.

I was just talking about spending in general over the last few years.

joescrivens said:
are you on the sauce phil?

Thomas ince and Steven Caulker banned for 1 and 2 games
four serbian players banned for between 2 and 4 games
2 coaches suspended for 2 years
Serbia have to play their next u21 match behing closed doors
Serbia fined £65,000
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I wish I was on the sauce - I'm working and full of the cold :'(

I was listening to the news when I typed that - the reporter said that none of the punishments handed out were for racial issues due to lack of evidence.

Perhaps I heard it wrong but the point the reporter was making was - regardless of the punishment - the charges just related to improper conduct and the whole racial thing had not even been acknowledged.

Perhaps I heard it wrong though as I've not read about it this morning.
 
dinners said:
You have quoted me there and then chosen a very specific cut off point to support your view.

I was just talking about spending in general over the last few years.
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go back and read it phil. If you were talking about the last few years you'd have said that they "had spent" lots. But you actually said they continue to, which means that they are still at it right now :shrug:

dinners said:
I wish I was on the sauce - I'm working and full of the cold :'(

I was listening to the news when I typed that - the reporter said that none of the punishments handed out were for racial issues due to lack of evidence.

Perhaps I heard it wrong but the point the reporter was making was - regardless of the punishment - the charges just related to improper conduct and the whole racial thing had not even been acknowledged.

Perhaps I heard it wrong though as I've not read about it this morning.
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That could well be. What i read didn't say one way or the other exactly what the breaches were for.
 
joescrivens said:
go back and read it phil. If you were talking about the last few years you'd have said that they "had spent" lots. But you actually said they continue to, which means that they are still at it right now :shrug:
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Grammatically that's correct albeit a bit pedentic Joe ;)

I was talking in general - not conveniently drawing a line after the last big signing.

joescrivens said:
That could well be. What i read didn't say one way or the other exactly what the breaches were for.
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I'd have to check myself.
 
dinners said:
Grammatically that's correct albeit a bit pedentic Joe ;)

I was talking in general - not conveniently drawing a line after the last big signing.
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well, I took umbridge to it because you were making out like liverpool are claiming not to have money and still making big signings. Where in fact they are now talking about not having a lot of budget for signings and haven't done a lot.

hence why the dempsey deal broke down - wasn't the right figure
 
See Brendan Rodgers is aiming for 2nd place this season. Would be an unbelievable achievement - and a highly unlikely one.....

We have the chance to extend winning (less) Premier League record, but also have a good chance of getting the record for most sending offs in one calendar year in Premier League history. I'm reasonable confident, and we had someone sent off in last years game.

Hopefully at some point we might actually win a game, I fear it won't be tomorrow though! I'm looking forward to the law of averages coming into play and our second half of the season surge up the table as wins follow wins that follows win!
 
akr said:
See Brendan Rodgers is aiming for 2nd place this season. Would be an unbelievable achievement - and a highly unlikely one.....

We have the chance to extend winning (less) Premier League record, but also have a good chance of getting the record for most sending offs in one calendar year in Premier League history. I'm reasonable confident, and we had someone sent off in last years game.

Hopefully at some point we might actually win a game, I fear it won't be tomorrow though! I'm looking forward to the law of averages coming into play and our second half of the season surge up the table as wins follow wins that follows win!
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I see you're clutching the same straw as me. :D
 
fabs said:
I see you're clutching the same straw as me. :D
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We are not alone.

The thing is I am genuinely still optimistic we can stay up. We have a decent team and squad - with some positive tactics, a bit of luck, decent team selection it really is do-able. We're 8 points from safety - it could be worse.

I am ignoring what has been before my eyes so far this season - the season starts tomorrow (or maybe the week after that, and possibly the week after that....)
 
akr said:
We are not alone.

The thing is I am genuinely still optimistic we can stay up. We have a decent team and squad - with some positive tactics, a bit of luck, decent team selection it really is do-able. We're 8 points from safety - it could be worse.

I am ignoring what has been before my eyes so far this season - the season starts tomorrow (or maybe the week after that, and possibly the week after that....)
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Yeah, I'm sort of with you. Can't help but think that, when we do ge that win, it'll be a catalyst that sparks off a few more. Confidence is a big thing in sport and our lot must be at an extreme low at the moment.
 
Brendan may be aiming for top two, but I'm expecting us to win it! ;)
 
The23rdman said:
Brendan may be aiming for top two, but I'm expecting us to win it! ;)
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Yes! My Papu laughs every season when I put my obligatory fiver on us winning it.

Keep the faith brother, keep the faith :)
 
The23rdman said:
Brendan may be aiming for top two, but I'm expecting us to win it! ;)
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And surely Champions League and PL league double next year - anything less and he should be sacked!

In all seriousness it's a strange thing to come out with - no-one expects you to finish second - I'd be surprised if the players believed it - if he'd said top 4 unlikely but you never know, he's almost set himself a target he has virtually no chance of meeting.
 
They've won 5 games - Norwich, Reading, Wigan, West Ham and Southampton.

Nobody expects them to finish 2nd but it's no hardship to fall short of an unrealistic target.

If he'd said that he was targetting 6th and didn't manage that, then that would be failure.
 
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dinners said:
won
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I'm not familiar with this word - what does it mean? Is it an americanism? :suspect:

I assume he is trying to Mourinho them into believing they can do it - I just always think it you set unrealistic targets no-one pays attention so they are pointless - I base this on my extensive Premier League managerial experience in Football Manager 2012, far more satisfying than real life!
 
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