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The day the immigrants left...
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MScotts
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It should'nt matter what colour people are, or their creed and ethnic background; so long as they're prepared to work well for pay appropriate to the job/ skill-level, and be consistent & reliable when employed. Let's face it laziness, not being prepared to be educated/ trained, preferring to live on benefits as opposed to getting up of their arse to take work they deem 'beneath them' is another big reason why imigrants have monopolised on oppertunities in the UK and other EU countries.
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I think you will find Chicken Tikka Masala is a British dish, I believe it was invented in Scotland and it has also been referred to as Britain's National Dish.
neil_g
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I think you will find Chicken Tikka Masala is a British dish, I believe it was invented in Scotland and it has also been referred to as Britain's National Dish.
indeed.. plus curry = yummy. roast = bland.
(p.s. - i am not of indian origin
)
Mr G
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I think you will find Chicken Tikka Masala is a British dish, I believe it was invented in Scotland and it has also been referred to as Britain's National Dish.
oh yes...Ckicken tikka Masala Haggis Neeps and Tats is delicious on a Sunday night
I think you will find Chicken Tikka Masala is a British dish, I believe it was invented in Scotland and it has also been referred to as Britain's National Dish.
I think you will find that claim is disputed and not as clear cut as you would present it Colin.
It was Robin Cook who proclaimed it as Britain's true national dish, a claim I would hotly dispute personally, although I have no doubt it is probably the most popular indian take-away dish. It's certainly my favourite.
Kev M
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I think you will find Chicken Tikka Masala is a British dish, I believe it was invented in Scotland and it has also been referred to as Britain's National Dish.
And I think you'll find that roast beef is a French dish.
Seems we never had much to call our own in the first place and what we do have we don't want
archamedes
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i didnt see this but to be honest it really doesnt surprise me. I went on my hunnymoon to turkey with my wife and seeing the staff at the hotel really opened my eyes to the amount of ****y whingy english people that we really are. Those people where working before we woke up and still working long after we went to bed, and they worked EVERY day, i didnt see any of them take a break and when they did it must have been quick. What surprised me the most was they were all very happy and helpful and probably worked on a fraction of a wage we usually expect over here. It really put my mind into perspective that we really take the ****** over here. We are always pulling sickies and whinging about our jobs, if we work 1 minute over our contracted time we end up having s***fits and demand a free full paid holiday day off for the trouble. Unfortunatly british society has got so used to a lazy slack kind of life that we take too much for granted. And when honest VERY hard working polish people come here to do our jobs better than we do, we kick off about it.
We had some builders in and they really where useless, they arrived late, left early and pretty much achieved sod all when they where working, and had the audacity to complain that polish immigrants where stealing their jobs and all their contracts. I didnt bother getting into a debate but i thought "well waht do you expect? they come over and will work from dawn to almost midnight without a single lunch break and accept next to nothing for payment and are exceptionally greatfull for the work they are given. most of the money they get is shipped home to their family while these poor sods live in low quiality digs, no wonder they are showing you lot up. We take far too much for granted in this country, compared to other poorer countries we are really born with silver spoons in our mouths regardless of those born into money or poor council estate families. We have roofs over our head a free national health service and a government that will bend over backwards to feed the poor and lazy on the dole. Yet we are the first to complain about the least little thing. True the dole queues have spiralled out of control, but there are jobs out there regardless of how tight things have got. There is always a place at your local mcdonalds and sainsburys, but like i said we are too picky and very inverted snobbish to take them on. Yet the polish came over took any job they could get pushing asside pride and "what pays best" and really made a mockery of us
We had some builders in and they really where useless, they arrived late, left early and pretty much achieved sod all when they where working, and had the audacity to complain that polish immigrants where stealing their jobs and all their contracts. I didnt bother getting into a debate but i thought "well waht do you expect? they come over and will work from dawn to almost midnight without a single lunch break and accept next to nothing for payment and are exceptionally greatfull for the work they are given. most of the money they get is shipped home to their family while these poor sods live in low quiality digs, no wonder they are showing you lot up. We take far too much for granted in this country, compared to other poorer countries we are really born with silver spoons in our mouths regardless of those born into money or poor council estate families. We have roofs over our head a free national health service and a government that will bend over backwards to feed the poor and lazy on the dole. Yet we are the first to complain about the least little thing. True the dole queues have spiralled out of control, but there are jobs out there regardless of how tight things have got. There is always a place at your local mcdonalds and sainsburys, but like i said we are too picky and very inverted snobbish to take them on. Yet the polish came over took any job they could get pushing asside pride and "what pays best" and really made a mockery of us
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Where is that? I know of one on the A1306 (Old A13) opposite Ford's, but that has been a McD's longer now than it was a pub.The difference is they are not reopening pubs as restaurants whilst still looking like a pub, at least not for the most part (There is a MacDonald's on the A13 that was a pub that springs to mind).
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As a toolmaker, I am a substitute stand up group leader. (I stand in when the other group leaders are off sick, on holiday, working other shifts etc). Not only do I have to carry out my own normal day to day work, I also have to oversea, assist workmates in my area. If something malfunctions, I have to get someone to fix it, order stuff from the stores, liase with management and other departments, make decisions because half the time the management are at a loss to do so.
Yes I do get 10% extra on my wages for the weeks I am standing in for others, but I'm doing alot more than 10% extra. Some of the full time group leaders do half of what I acheive in a normal working day, but I don't complain. I arrive at work 1.5 hrs early every day, spend about an hour or so in the gym before reading the line up or liasing with the previous shifts group leader before the start of each shift, then allocate the work to my colleagues at the start of the shift. This last week I have been on late shift, I have not left work ontime once, usually being out 5-10 minutes late and that includes two shifts where my electronic clock card hasn't worked so my supervisor has already clocked me in and out on the computer. I could just as easily gone home an hour early if I'd wanted and no one would have been the wiser.
For the last 6 months I have been working 6 or 7 day weeks.
I still have holiday to take from last year. So it would be hard to call me work shy.
As for people having a roof over their heads, free nhs, etc. It may be free to some but I'm paying well over the odds to pay for it as well as support my own family, including an 18 yr old who due to varied college days/hours has found it so far impossible to find any sort of flexible part time work to fit in.
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Speaking as a tomato farmer working for a modest greenhouse firm, in the last few years the boss have been taking on migrant workers to fill in the gap that could so easily be filled in by local workers. Why? It's simply because people think they are better off staying on benefits than work full time in a hot greenhouse for just a few penny short of £200 a week, so therefore it's being a struggle to get hold of local workers - especially in the summer picking season. The job is there for the picking (no pun intended) but no-one is interested.
And when we do get hold of any local workers, they end up only working for a very short time before being unable to hack it and they quit the job thinking the world owes them one.
Migrants on the other hand, speaking from experience, have proved themselves to be excellent workers and they integrate themselves excellently with the few remaining "veterans" such as me who still work there.
I actually have come across people saying "Urrgh, them bladdy migrants are taking over our jobs, get 'em out, etc, etc", even though those very people have never done a day's work in years as they claim on disability benefits for that twinge on the back. I usually say "Actually, I could get you a job in them greenhouses if you're interested, there's plenty of work going there", only to be greeted by a "Aaah, well, you see, the thing is, I've got this condition which means I can't do that kind of work" reply and slink off.
And when we do get hold of any local workers, they end up only working for a very short time before being unable to hack it and they quit the job thinking the world owes them one.
Migrants on the other hand, speaking from experience, have proved themselves to be excellent workers and they integrate themselves excellently with the few remaining "veterans" such as me who still work there.
I actually have come across people saying "Urrgh, them bladdy migrants are taking over our jobs, get 'em out, etc, etc", even though those very people have never done a day's work in years as they claim on disability benefits for that twinge on the back. I usually say "Actually, I could get you a job in them greenhouses if you're interested, there's plenty of work going there", only to be greeted by a "Aaah, well, you see, the thing is, I've got this condition which means I can't do that kind of work" reply and slink off.
archamedes
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My point exactly. Us british are too used to the luxuries in life, expect the world owes us a living and expect managers to put up with our sickies *koff Hangerovers* and we turn our nose up at cheap paid jobs simply because we think we are too good for that. I do not agree with the immigrants that come over here and sponge off an already overflowing unstable system, then bite the hand that feeds it by claiming everything in england is offensive to them.
On the other hand I myself have been out of work and its oe thing i hated having to sign on, but i had to bite my pride and accept it was my only option. The thing i did not like was people saying stuff like "oh you are lazy, go out and get a job." However i usually found that these snooty stuck up people are usually those who have been in long time employment for a number of years and still think that by sending out 10 cv's you will get 10 replies and 10 interviews. Times have changed dramatically over the last 5 years, what with the recession and immigration workers, but we have to accept the truth, the reason why they are taking all the jobs is simply because they have been proven to be more reliable and work harder for much less than we get, they also take on the jobs we wouldn't think off so i take my hat off to them.
Some good points well made in the posts so far but i would like to return to the programme itself. I lived in Wisbech for a number of years and i was disappointed with the general attitude of the folks who took part. Given that they were fully aware of the requirements for the programme what an appalling attitude most of them displayed. Fair play to the young lad at the Indian restaurant; i thought he was on a hiding to nothing being expected to do that lunch service on his own but some of the others made me cringe.
If we take the two guys at the potato factory; they arrived late, insulted their colleagues by suggesting they couldn't understand them, wanted to call another guy Bill as Yuri was too difficult to say, packed the items wrongly which meant the work had to be redone and then suggested the machines had been speeded up purposefully for their time on the line. The programme ended by revealing that they had applied for full time employment but no suitable vacancies were available. I can tell you that i wouldn't have employed them either. One of the guys said he had previously earned £800 per day laying drains; no local employer will be paying in excess of £40,000 per year via the Job Centre.
There are much wider issues; my in-laws live in Wisbech and have many immigrant neighbours and tell me that a lot of them run untaxed cars and live in large groups in a house so i guess that means that for some the expenditure is not so high as local indiginous residents. However, the piece work jobs for which you are paid according to the effort made means everyone has the same opportunity.
It does not matter how much we debate the rights and wrongs of the immigration policy the fact remains that employers will continue to employ those that work the hardest, have the right commitment and attitude and contribute to the overall well being of their companies.
Best wishes,
Tracey
If we take the two guys at the potato factory; they arrived late, insulted their colleagues by suggesting they couldn't understand them, wanted to call another guy Bill as Yuri was too difficult to say, packed the items wrongly which meant the work had to be redone and then suggested the machines had been speeded up purposefully for their time on the line. The programme ended by revealing that they had applied for full time employment but no suitable vacancies were available. I can tell you that i wouldn't have employed them either. One of the guys said he had previously earned £800 per day laying drains; no local employer will be paying in excess of £40,000 per year via the Job Centre.
There are much wider issues; my in-laws live in Wisbech and have many immigrant neighbours and tell me that a lot of them run untaxed cars and live in large groups in a house so i guess that means that for some the expenditure is not so high as local indiginous residents. However, the piece work jobs for which you are paid according to the effort made means everyone has the same opportunity.
It does not matter how much we debate the rights and wrongs of the immigration policy the fact remains that employers will continue to employ those that work the hardest, have the right commitment and attitude and contribute to the overall well being of their companies.
Best wishes,
Tracey
ujjwaldey8165
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Have to say this; Chiken Tikka masala is as british as it can get. Whatever that abomination of a culinary effort is, it isn't Indian.
And only someone with no taste buds left will choose a Tikka Masala over a fine English roast dinner...( says someone who goes to a Carvery every Saturday..).
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fine English roast dinner...( says someone who goes to a Carvery every Saturday..).
fine is a word very rarely used in conjunction with a calvery, edible is about as good as carvery gets!
ujjwaldey8165
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Nah....one particular carvary out here is fantastic. No nonsense, no frill, just good roast and fresh vegetables.....We love it
Have to say this; Chiken Tikka masala is as british as it can get. Whatever that abomination of a culinary effort is, it isn't Indian.
That is disputed and not as "British as it can get" according to some. Some claim it was created in Glasgow while many top indian chefs claim it is a slight variation on an old Indian dish, and therefore Indian.
ujjwaldey8165
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That is disputed and not as "British as it can get" according to some. Some claim it was created in Glasgow while many top indian chefs claim it is a slight variation on an old Indian dish, and therefore Indian.
Such top Indian Chef must have been the product of local TV programme...I swear.
Chiken Tikka masala will not be found anywhere in India. Chiken Tikka - yes; Chiken tikka Masala - never. And while one is great food, the other is, as I said, abomination....( and the two dishes bear no resemblance to each other, save the name, and chiken...)
Now that you say it was created in Glasgow, I understand why its so horrible
( Just kidding, BTW, no offence meant)
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Such top Indian Chef must have been the product of local TV programme...I swear.
Chiken Tikka masala will not be found anywhere in India. Chiken Tikka - yes; Chiken tikka Masala - never. And while one is great food, the other is, as I said, abomination....( and the two dishes bear no resemblance to each other, save the name, and chiken...)
Now that you say it was created in Glasgow, I understand why its so horrible
Whether it's found in India or not, the origin is still in question. Either way, in this country it is still marketed as "Indian" and only really found in Indian restaurants or the Asian food aisle of the supermarket. To me Chicken Tikka Masala is no more "British" than Chinese sweet and sour, which has been around as long CTM I would think?
Personally I have no important opinion one way or the other as I enjoy a roast dinner as much as an indian meal, and vice versa. I can also say the same of other foods we associate with different regions of the world, be it cheeses or Fajitas.
Grayman
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As an immigrant I too watched this program with much interest. I come from a non-EU country and it took me 3 years to get a visa to come to the UK. Amongst things, we had to prove that we could survive without receiving any benefits. My family and I have been here for 5 years now, and don't receive a penny in benefits or tax credits. I work long hours and I make sure my kids work hard at school as they are getting an education they probably wouldn't get back home. In the first two years my wife and I had to pay 'super-tax' and NI as we were new in the country. Not once have I ever complained as I knew this is what we were coming too. What my gripe is, is that virtually daily I am told that I as a foreigner am taking peoples' jobs and sponging off the State and have been told to eff off home more than enough times that I care to remember. Like some people said that all British people shouldn't be judged by the few shown on the telly, so the same should apply to immigrants as well.
archamedes
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hear hear grayman. my hat comes off to you. too many people like to blame a scapegoat when only given half he facts or is a daily mail fanboy
It's a polite way of saying African / Asian .... :shrug: ....or perhaps someone with a nice sun tan
Polite? Since when was calling someone African or Asian an insult?
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Many of the things that are classed as traditional really are not that old, the British pub as we know it is about as old as the Scottish kilt, i.e. a couple of hundred years.
What is new today may be tradition tomorrow, the world is always changing and you can't stop it.
noneforit
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I didnt get to see the program but I did grow up in Dover so saw my fair share of immigrants (or Asylum Seekers).
I think that Britian does need immigrants but we should have some kind of points system (like Australia and other countries) to prevent overcrowding and to make sure that they have the both employable skills and can speak (or are prepared to learn) English.
The UK is without a doubt too soft with immigration, in particular immigrants who have been denied asylum but can stay in the UK whilst they appeal 20 times or until they dissapear into societey never to be seen again...
Its like anything, there are always two sides to a story....some Asylum Seekers are hard working and are prepared to do jobs which British people are not prepared to do and unfortunately some are happy to live off the hard working British tax payer
Just my 2p worth
I think that Britian does need immigrants but we should have some kind of points system (like Australia and other countries) to prevent overcrowding and to make sure that they have the both employable skills and can speak (or are prepared to learn) English.
The UK is without a doubt too soft with immigration, in particular immigrants who have been denied asylum but can stay in the UK whilst they appeal 20 times or until they dissapear into societey never to be seen again...
Its like anything, there are always two sides to a story....some Asylum Seekers are hard working and are prepared to do jobs which British people are not prepared to do and unfortunately some are happy to live off the hard working British tax payer
Just my 2p worth
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Absolute tosh! Link
Oddly enough I got my info from that very link.
Drinking houses and taverns have existed since drink was invented but the 'pub' that you fear the loss of only really took off after the beer act of 1830.
For me it is about the conversion of the "pub" to restaurants offering mostly ethnic food. Doesn't matter how you define the pub, they have always been drinking houses of some description. The loss of one and the rise of the other is changing something that has been traditional in this country for a very very long time. And i think that was the original point I was addressing a page or so back - the loss of something "British".
Good arguments on both sides and its nice that we have kept it civil for once. However I do find it interesting that when I enquired about Britain becoming less british the only thing that has been talked at length is related to alcohol and foods loaded with cholesterol
However I do find it interesting that when I enquired about Britain becoming less british the only thing that has been talked at length is related to alcohol and foods loaded with cholesterol 
Splog
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Since never! :shrug: .. If you had bothered to read the thread then you would have understood my reply! So, how should black people be referred to? They're not black... White people are not white and Asian people are not Khaki ...
scraggs
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I watched the programme and found it very interesting, I have spent a fair ammount of years involved with fruit & veg growers
Now this is just my opinion but if you want to lay the blame at anyone's feet try looking towards the supermarkets, they have squeezed farm & packing house prices so low that if you knew some of the prices you would have to wonder how they are still going, it's a sad fact that for a lot of farms they need 100% reliable hard working workers who are cheap otherwise they will run at a loss. Just a simple example is this, I have a friend runs a fruit farm, they now employ migrants at picking time because they know they will turn up but more importantly is the fact that if someone puts a pear that has a blemmish in with the good pears the whole batch will be sent for re-grading which will actually cost them more than they get paid for the pears, they have found that the migrants have more pride in thier job and they don't have a problem now, ironicly whilst the migrants are busy picking they chuck loads out and they are horrified that food with a tiny blemmish just gets discarded, and call it madness.
So yes whilst the suprmarkets make hundreds of millions in profits, it's at the expence of british jobs, if they paid the producers/packers more then they could in turn pay slightly higher wages, which would encourage english workers, although quite why they should need incouraging is beyond me but thats another matter.
Now this is just my opinion but if you want to lay the blame at anyone's feet try looking towards the supermarkets, they have squeezed farm & packing house prices so low that if you knew some of the prices you would have to wonder how they are still going, it's a sad fact that for a lot of farms they need 100% reliable hard working workers who are cheap otherwise they will run at a loss. Just a simple example is this, I have a friend runs a fruit farm, they now employ migrants at picking time because they know they will turn up but more importantly is the fact that if someone puts a pear that has a blemmish in with the good pears the whole batch will be sent for re-grading which will actually cost them more than they get paid for the pears, they have found that the migrants have more pride in thier job and they don't have a problem now, ironicly whilst the migrants are busy picking they chuck loads out and they are horrified that food with a tiny blemmish just gets discarded, and call it madness.
So yes whilst the suprmarkets make hundreds of millions in profits, it's at the expence of british jobs, if they paid the producers/packers more then they could in turn pay slightly higher wages, which would encourage english workers, although quite why they should need incouraging is beyond me but thats another matter.
photon
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I visited a small factory and there was discussion going on about one of the Poles not having had his college course arranged. I thought that was a sign of a caring employer, but now I'm not so sure: it may just be a way for driving wages down even further.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...ype=RESOURCES&itemId=1082270874&r.t=RESOURCES
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...ype=RESOURCES&itemId=1082270874&r.t=RESOURCES
Are you trying to tell me that a black man would prefer to be called coloured? I'd rather be called Brown or Asian than be called coloured. If you're Caucasian then I'd probably refer to you as White or Caucasian. I wouldn't refer to you as uncoloured. That's just stupid. Are you stupid?
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I agree with this, for the most part.
Immigrants don't apply for Asylum. Asylum Seekers apply for Asylum. Asylum Seekers that gain asylum are then classed as Refugees. It's important to understand this fact because a lot depends on it. Asylum seekers are not allowed to work.
Once an asylum seeker gains official refugee status (recognized by the UNHCR) they then gain benefits and additional rights, such as the right to work.
The media has made those two terms; 'Asylum Seeker' and 'Refugee' dirty words in the minds of the general public... which is shameful in my opinion.
I agree. And after having some first hand experience of meeting refugees in Glasgow I have to say I would rather they were living here than where they were. KayJay have you been to any of the Scottish Refugee Councils talks? They do some good work in Glasgow.
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Less of the insults.
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And therein lies your problem. Can you speak for everyone? Until every single person on the planet agrees on a single acceptable term then you're going to get miscommunication on both sides.
The key is to actually realise the intent behind the particular choice of word used and act accordingly, not with a huge chip on your shoulder because someone has used a term that you personally don't prefer, where others do.
It wasn't an insult. It's a rhetorical question.
But those are internationally recognised terms. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing on a term. It's about addressing misunderstandings so that others start to use the correct terms.
Read this article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored