The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

To me there are clear differences in those shots which could have been more equalised in processing.
I'm interested what you'd suggest in processing to make them more equal? (y)
I don't think focal length is the right phrase here, I think FoV is better as that allows us to consider different focal lengths on different formats if the FoV ends up about the same. As above, I think the effect you are looking for is at least possible with smaller apertures if other things needed fall into place but you're not going to get the exact ultimate look you'll get from a specific FF camera and lens from any other format and lens as the differences just mount up.
The reason I mentioned focal length rather than FOV was due to trying to understand why there's more 3D effect. Obviously 25mm on m4/3 will give pretty much the same FOV as 50mm on FF, but the lens characteristics are different due to the fundamental difference in focal length and I wondered if that made a difference (y)

I'm not sure we're all talking about the same thing tbh as the effect is far less pronounced the smaller the aperture, I've never seen it at f5.6 for example.

At the risk of upsetting people who live for shallow DoF and remembering that it's something we all do from time to time I do think it can be overdone. I do this too but mostly when I've just bought a lens and I'm doing a road test involving shooting at different distances and apertures, Generally though and just for my own personal taste I think some shots we see on this forum would be better for having more DoF. This is just my own opinion.
I don't think people should be upset for you having an opinion, certainly doesn't bother me. My preference is for shallow DOF and I'm probably the worst for overdoing it, but it's a look I like when I have a particular subject in the frame as opposed to a landscape for example (y)
 
Just have a play with the Generative Fill that David introduced me to above, it's not bad for a bit of fun. I actually wanted the car parked in front of an old American Diner but it doesn't appear to be able to do it, but I think what I finally came up with looks relatively authentic.

Screenshot 2023-06-20 at 13.52.49.jpg
 
Just have a play with the Generative Fill that David introduced me to above, it's not bad for a bit of fun. I actually wanted the car parked in front of an old American Diner but it doesn't appear to be able to do it, but I think what I finally came up with looks relatively authentic.

View attachment 393096

(y)

Its a good toy (and really quite impressive), but a total time bandit, I would much rather be outside than sat in front of a computer (which I do for 90% of my working time anyway).
 
I'm interested what you'd suggest in processing to make them more equal? (y)

The reason I mentioned focal length rather than FOV was due to trying to understand why there's more 3D effect. Obviously 25mm on m4/3 will give pretty much the same FOV as 50mm on FF, but the lens characteristics are different due to the fundamental difference in focal length and I wondered if that made a difference (y)

I'm not sure we're all talking about the same thing tbh as the effect is far less pronounced the smaller the aperture, I've never seen it at f5.6 for example.


I don't think people should be upset for you having an opinion, certainly doesn't bother me. My preference is for shallow DOF and I'm probably the worst for overdoing it, but it's a look I like when I have a particular subject in the frame as opposed to a landscape for example (y)
I have to say that I'm a sucker for shallow depth of field too. I just find that having the background more creamy and out of focus with the subject super sharp gives that 3D effect you guys have been talking about. I think distance from lens to subject, subject to background, size of sensor, and the aperture used all play a role which I think you guys have all touched on. I do think you can still get the 3D effect with an f/2.8 or even f/4 aperture, but having a faster lens does make it easier to achieve the effect while keeping the other factors constant.
 
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I'm interested what you'd suggest in processing to make them more equal? (y)

The reason I mentioned focal length rather than FOV was due to trying to understand why there's more 3D effect. Obviously 25mm on m4/3 will give pretty much the same FOV as 50mm on FF, but the lens characteristics are different due to the fundamental difference in focal length and I wondered if that made a difference (y)

I'm not sure we're all talking about the same thing tbh as the effect is far less pronounced the smaller the aperture, I've never seen it at f5.6 for example.


I don't think people should be upset for you having an opinion, certainly doesn't bother me. My preference is for shallow DOF and I'm probably the worst for overdoing it, but it's a look I like when I have a particular subject in the frame as opposed to a landscape for example (y)

I'm not sure what the differences are caused by but there look to be differences. If this is WB or colour or contrast or exposure or a combination of them all I don't know.

As I mentioned before, focal length comes with a physical aperture and an f stop number dependant on the focal length but we can get the same field of view and use an equivalent aperture when using a different format size. There'll still be lens technical differences which could affect the image and of course whatever differences the camera body and in and out of camera processing introduce but we're looking for 3D pop possibility and differences here and that may to an extent be less affected by the lens as long as we have enough sharpness and contrast and other things such as the rate of sharpness fall off and field curvature and everything else are roughly similar.

To get 3D effect pop with smaller apertures you'd need good contrast and a composition with conducive spacial relationships and distances. Getting closer to a main subject and/or having surrounding and background elements at good final result friendly distances will help.

I can see this in FF when using smaller aperture shots from f5 to f8. If you have a person or some other main subject which you want to pop smaller apertures may be needed to get enough depth with the framing you want but these smaller apertures and the depth they may produce in the scene as a whole may be counteracted if you need to get closer to the subject as closer distance reduced DoF. I see it even at even more extreme apertures like f16 when doing close up shots. I'm tempted to post examples from both my A7 and MFT cameras but as I posted earlier there'll be 100 different opinions and it'll just go on and take over and all this is personal preference anyway, so I won't :D

Generally I'm not a fan of too many very thin DoF shots and after the honeymoon period with a new lens they tend to be a smaller percentage of the pictures I take as I generally like most if not all of a person in the depth and when taking scenic pictures I generally like to be able to make most of the scene out.

I generally use MFT with the lenses wide open (f1.8?) to f4 or whatever they end up being at the end of their zoom range. I should therefore be able to get a similar look to FF at f3.6 to f8. Without pixel peeping the most noticeable differences to me between FF and MFT when not aiming for minimal depth are normally dynamic range (but that's not always an issue) and height to width ratio.
 
I have to say that I'm a sucker for shallow depth of field too. I just find that having the background more creamy and out of focus with the subject super sharp gives that 3D effect you guys have been talking about. I think distance from lens to subject, subject to background, size of sensor, and the aperture used all play a role which I think you guys have all touched on. I do think you can still get the 3D effect with an f/2.8 or even f/4 aperture, but having a faster lens does make it easier to achieve the effect while keeping the other factors constant.

Yup. With smaller apertures reduced distance to the popping subject could be a big help. I think with some subjects and scenes even f1.x isn't going to cut it. I think it has to be a combination of several/many things and as always the light.
 
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Well, that certainly stirred things up a bit more than expected.
 
I'm not sure what the differences are caused by but there look to be differences. If this is WB or colour or contrast or exposure or a combination of them all I don't know.

As I mentioned before, focal length comes with a physical aperture and an f stop number dependant on the focal length but we can get the same field of view and use an equivalent aperture when using a different format size. There'll still be lens technical differences which could affect the image and of course whatever differences the camera body and in and out of camera processing introduce but we're looking for 3D pop possibility and differences here and that may to an extent be less affected by the lens as long as we have enough sharpness and contrast and other things such as the rate of sharpness fall off and field curvature and everything else are roughly similar.

To get 3D effect pop with smaller apertures you'd need good contrast and a composition with conducive spacial relationships and distances. Getting closer to a main subject and/or having surrounding and background elements at good final result friendly distances will help.

I can see this in FF when using smaller aperture shots from f5 to f8. If you have a person or some other main subject which you want to pop smaller apertures may be needed to get enough depth with the framing you want but these smaller apertures and the depth they may produce in the scene as a whole may be counteracted if you need to get closer to the subject as closer distance reduced DoF. I see it even at even more extreme apertures like f16 when doing close up shots. I'm tempted to post examples from both my A7 and MFT cameras but as I posted earlier there'll be 100 different opinions and it'll just go on and take over and all this is personal preference anyway, so I won't :D

Generally I'm not a fan of too many very thin DoF shots and after the honeymoon period with a new lens they tend to be a smaller percentage of the pictures I take as I generally like most if not all of a person in the depth and when taking scenic pictures I generally like to be able to make most of the scene out.

I generally use MFT with the lenses wide open (f1.8?) to f4 or whatever they end up being at the end of their zoom range. I should therefore be able to get a similar look to FF at f3.6 to f8. Without pixel peeping the most noticeable differences to me between FF and MFT when not aiming for minimal depth are normally dynamic range (but that's not always an issue) and height to width ratio.
I honestly think I'm talking about something different as small apertures don't give the look I'm referring to regardless of light, subject distance etc., but that's fine I know we all see things differently and have our own interpretations :cool:
 
Had a go at a mono conversion, not usually my forte but I think it turned out OK


A1_09553-Edit by Toby Gunnee, on Flickr
 
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Nikon has announced their Z180-600mm and 70-180mm f2.8.

The 70-180mm f2.8 looks to be tamron 70-180mm copy optically except it can also take teleconverters which is really nice.
I really wish Sony would open up TCs to third parties.
 
Nikon has announced their Z180-600mm and 70-180mm f2.8.

The 70-180mm f2.8 looks to be tamron 70-180mm copy optically except it can also take teleconverters which is really nice.
I really wish Sony would open up TCs to third parties.
They look good, the 180-600mm especially. Slightly more focal length range and weighing a bit lighter than the Sony 200-600mm, although there's no mention of the weight with the tripod collar so it may be close to the 200-600mm once that's added. Slightly more expensive than the Sony though, although I can't remember what the Sony was at release.

The 70-180mm does look like a copy of the Tamron, almost a 'budget' version of the 70-200mm f2.8. It looks like it's got an extending zoom, and it's missing any function buttons and focus limiter etc. Like the Tamron it's nice and light, and much more affordable at over a grand less than the 70-200's.
 
They look good, the 180-600mm especially. Slightly more focal length range and weighing a bit lighter than the Sony 200-600mm, although there's no mention of the weight with the tripod collar so it may be close to the 200-600mm once that's added. Slightly more expensive than the Sony though, although I can't remember what the Sony was at release.
Chris/Jordan mentioned the weight in their petapixel review for both with and without collar. There isn't much there versus Sony.
The 180mm vs 200mm isn't a huge difference. I think sigmas 60-600mm or tamrons 50-400mm makes a real difference at wide ends.
Basically I wouldn't jump system for this lens over the Sony.

But it also has a higher magnification than Sony (0.25x versus 0.2x).
The 70-180mm does look like a copy of the Tamron, almost a 'budget' version of the 70-200mm f2.8. It looks like it's got an extending zoom, and it's missing any function buttons and focus limiter etc. Like the Tamron it's nice and light, and much more affordable at over a grand less than the 70-200's.

Now that it can also take TCs it makes a lot more sense to buy this than a 70-200mm f4. It's just as small and light as any 70-200mm f4 lens on the market so far.
Of course here at Sony at haven't got that option :(
 
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Chris/Jordan mentioned the weight in their petapixel review for both with and without collar. There isn't much there versus Sony.
The 180mm vs 200mm isn't a huge difference. I think sigmas 60-600mm or tamrons 50-400mm makes a real difference at wide ends.
Basically I wouldn't jump system for this lens over the Sony.

But it also has a higher magnification than Sony (0.25x versus 0.2x).


Now that it can also take TCs it makes a lot more sense to buy this than a 70-200mm f4. It's just as small and light as any 70-200mm f4 lens on the market so far.
Of course here at Sony at haven't got that option :(
I saw the 70-180mm gives a 0.96 magnification when using the 2x TC, that'd be useful (y)
 
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Nikon has announced their Z180-600mm and 70-180mm f2.8.

The 70-180mm f2.8 looks to be tamron 70-180mm copy optically except it can also take teleconverters which is really nice.
I really wish Sony would open up TCs to third parties.

Have they announced prices?

Doing my maths ATM as unlike you I prefer the larger size bodies like the Z9.
 
Have they announced prices?
I have seen USD prices so far but not GBP
$1700 for 180-600 and $1250 for 70-180mm.

Basically around same price as Sony options.

Doing my maths ATM as unlike you I prefer the larger size bodies like the Z9.
Fair enough.
Nikons AF feels/seems fiddly at the moment to get the best results. It may be good enough for you but just make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.
 
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Nikons AF feels/seems fiddly at the moment to get the best results. It may be good enough for you but just make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

One of the things I do like about Nikon is that they are continually updating the autofocus (amongst other things). I would imagine the 180-600mm is going to be hard to get hold of to begin with but I really do like where Nikon are going with the Z mount glass.
 
I would imagine the 180-600mm is going to be hard to get hold of to begin with but I really do like where Nikon are going with the Z mount glass.
I'd have probably agreed with that statement up until the launch of the Z8. It seems that Nikon built up stocks of the Z8 in anticipation and learned from the Z9 fiasco, and now the typical wait time for one (just weeks after launch) is only a few weeks or available immediately grey (Panamoz or E-Infinity).

I would hope the same is true of the new lenses as well, especially the 180-600 which has been on the roadmap for years now and Nikon must know they are going to sell a boat load of them. But we won't really know for sure until units start shipping in August.
 
One of the things I do like about Nikon is that they are continually updating the autofocus (amongst other things). I would imagine the 180-600mm is going to be hard to get hold of to begin with but I really do like where Nikon are going with the Z mount glass.
They are needing to continually update it because they were not quite at the same level as canon/Sony.

The telelenses are certainly awesome. They are the main reason for me wanting to try Nikon.
 
I might trump yours with one I took today too - although I did have to crop this one to oblivion so not quite the detail I wanted:

A9C05734 2 by Gilbo B, on Flickr
I'd need to crop mine to about 400% to get a shot like that :LOL: The other day when out on the bike I saw one hovering about 20ft up, 10 ft away from the roadside :headbang:

Edit: Here you go, 4 x enlargement in Gigapixel and 100% crop, good detail eh? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Screenshot 2023-06-21 at 15.24.44.jpg
 
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A quick sanity check,

I currently have an A7R2 and mostly shoot landscapes, but i am enjoying also now taking photos of wildlife / birds etc with a Sigma 100-400 lens with it set in APS-C mode for the extra reach.
I don't want to upgrade to a 200-600 due to size / weight, the 100-400 is as big as i want to carry / manage.

I have been thinking of upgrading to another body due to the slow AF of the R2 and lots of missed shots.
I am primarily an EVF shooter so a decent EVF is important to my user experience.

A7IV
2k Grey
33mp
14mp in APS-C mode
Fast AF
AI for birds
Good resolution for landscapes / wildlife
Average EVF resolution 3.69mp
Poor LCD resolution 1mp
Never going to use the Video functions
Will need to use mechanical shutter to get 10fps


A9
About 1.5k
24mp
10mp in APS-C mode
Same EVF as A7IV
Slightly better LCD resolution
Very fast AF / FPS
Electronic Shutter
NO bird AI
Blackout free EVF
Never going to use the Video functions
Never going to get firmware updates
Low resolution in APS-C mode compared to other models


A7R5
Latest model
2.8k Grey
61mp
26mp in APS-C mode
Superb EVF 9mp
Good LCD 2mp
Latest AI for birds / animals etc
Never going to use the Video functions
Will need to use mechanical shutter to get 10fps
Will get later firmware updates

I would probably most of the time shoot in MRaw at 26mp for normal photography as i dont need 61mp resolution or file sizes, and then set to 61mp when on a landscape specific outing with tripod etc.
For wildlife 61mp in crop mode so 26mp with the added 1.5x reach on the 100-400 which allows more crop ability 26mp v 14 or 10mp.

All cameras are within budget, A1 is sadly not in budget.

At this point the A7R5 is top of my list.

Have i missed anything in terms of spec / advantages / negatives of each model

Any thoughts ?
 
At this point the A7R5 is top of my list.

Have i missed anything in terms of spec / advantages / negatives of each model

Any thoughts ?

Agree that the A7R5 is probably best but the other option would be to keep the A7Rii for landscapes and seeing what the rumored A6700 is like, expected announcement on 12th July.
 
A quick sanity check,

I currently have an A7R2 and mostly shoot landscapes, but i am enjoying also now taking photos of wildlife / birds etc with a Sigma 100-400 lens with it set in APS-C mode for the extra reach.
I don't want to upgrade to a 200-600 due to size / weight, the 100-400 is as big as i want to carry / manage.

I have been thinking of upgrading to another body due to the slow AF of the R2 and lots of missed shots.
I am primarily an EVF shooter so a decent EVF is important to my user experience.

A7IV
2k Grey
33mp
14mp in APS-C mode
Fast AF
AI for birds
Good resolution for landscapes / wildlife
Average EVF resolution 3.69mp
Poor LCD resolution 1mp
Never going to use the Video functions
Will need to use mechanical shutter to get 10fps


A9
About 1.5k
24mp
10mp in APS-C mode
Same EVF as A7IV
Slightly better LCD resolution
Very fast AF / FPS
Electronic Shutter
NO bird AI
Blackout free EVF
Never going to use the Video functions
Never going to get firmware updates
Low resolution in APS-C mode compared to other models


A7R5
Latest model
2.8k Grey
61mp
26mp in APS-C mode
Superb EVF 9mp
Good LCD 2mp
Latest AI for birds / animals etc
Never going to use the Video functions
Will need to use mechanical shutter to get 10fps
Will get later firmware updates

I would probably most of the time shoot in MRaw at 26mp for normal photography as i dont need 61mp resolution or file sizes, and then set to 61mp when on a landscape specific outing with tripod etc.
For wildlife 61mp in crop mode so 26mp with the added 1.5x reach on the 100-400 which allows more crop ability 26mp v 14 or 10mp.

All cameras are within budget, A1 is sadly not in budget.

At this point the A7R5 is top of my list.

Have i missed anything in terms of spec / advantages / negatives of each model

Any thoughts ?
From what I've seen the A9 still has better AF than the A7RV in terms of speed of acquisition and tracking, however the A7RIV is far from a slouch, plus has bird eye AF which is extremely useful. Also, the AF is way better than the A7RII
 
@snerkler i think as the R2 is now an 8 year old model, i expect whichever model i pick will have much better AF, i thinks its more that it may come down to the user experience as the deciding factor i.e the better EVF / AI modes for birds etc
 
A quick sanity check,

I currently have an A7R2 and mostly shoot landscapes, but i am enjoying also now taking photos of wildlife / birds etc with a Sigma 100-400 lens with it set in APS-C mode for the extra reach.
I don't want to upgrade to a 200-600 due to size / weight, the 100-400 is as big as i want to carry / manage.

I have been thinking of upgrading to another body due to the slow AF of the R2 and lots of missed shots.
I am primarily an EVF shooter so a decent EVF is important to my user experience.

A7IV
2k Grey
33mp
14mp in APS-C mode
Fast AF
AI for birds
Good resolution for landscapes / wildlife
Average EVF resolution 3.69mp
Poor LCD resolution 1mp
Never going to use the Video functions
Will need to use mechanical shutter to get 10fps


A9
About 1.5k
24mp
10mp in APS-C mode
Same EVF as A7IV
Slightly better LCD resolution
Very fast AF / FPS
Electronic Shutter
NO bird AI
Blackout free EVF
Never going to use the Video functions
Never going to get firmware updates
Low resolution in APS-C mode compared to other models


A7R5
Latest model
2.8k Grey
61mp
26mp in APS-C mode
Superb EVF 9mp
Good LCD 2mp
Latest AI for birds / animals etc
Never going to use the Video functions
Will need to use mechanical shutter to get 10fps
Will get later firmware updates

I would probably most of the time shoot in MRaw at 26mp for normal photography as i dont need 61mp resolution or file sizes, and then set to 61mp when on a landscape specific outing with tripod etc.
For wildlife 61mp in crop mode so 26mp with the added 1.5x reach on the 100-400 which allows more crop ability 26mp v 14 or 10mp.

All cameras are within budget, A1 is sadly not in budget.

At this point the A7R5 is top of my list.

Have i missed anything in terms of spec / advantages / negatives of each model

Any thoughts ?

I would go with A7rv if you can afford it.
 
@snerkler i think as the R2 is now an 8 year old model, i expect whichever model i pick will have much better AF, i thinks its more that it may come down to the user experience as the deciding factor i.e the better EVF / AI modes for birds etc
I personally think the user experience of the A7RV will be better than the A9, better grip, better evf, better LCD, more tracking subjects....

However, the A9 does have one big ace up its sleeve, blackout free shooting.
 
Yes, I have considered the A9 but it has the same EVF as the A7iv but it’s 2 x plus points are that it’s the cheapest option, and Black out free shooting with fast FPS
 
Yes, I have considered the A9 but it has the same EVF as the A7iv but it’s 2 x plus points are that it’s the cheapest option, and Black out free shooting with fast FPS
I swapped from A1 to A7IV. Blackout free shooting was certainly nice but it's not end of the world.
 
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