The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

[nandbytes]

A7r to a7r5 was 9 years. But slower releases on others.

A7r - Nov 2013
A7rii - August 2015
A7riii - october 2017
A7riv - july 2019
A7rV - oct 2022

I guess that's roughly every 2 years for that line.

It’s the inaction in the A1 is the worry and a bigger price point to trade up if they make a leap forward.

They are updating it with bug fixes just not adding major features. One of the reasons I sold it.
They need to support their flagship better.

Nikons pricing is interesting.

Not apples with apples. The Z8 by January will probably be the same grey as the A7RV - £2800.

On the flip side if you are happy to wait a year or two before buying bodies (which you seem to be doing anyway) you will get a nice juicy discount on Sony

Prices of bodies is one thing, you should also consider prices of lenses. Sony has a larger set of options and larger used market.
That certainly helps keep the price down and for me reduce losses when I buy and sell which I do loads of.

Thanks for your point of view - really appreciate it. I won’t own the 400 or 600mm either - unless a lottery win.

What I have in my kit is the value I have. Recently making some sales to free up for a 2nd body. Which I will sit on for a while maybe hire the Z8 later in the year.

I am the same. I sold the A1 to spend more on my lenses. I didn't think down the line A1 would hold its value very well and Sony not updating it with new features mean people will be selling their A1s more and more to upgrade or buy something else.
I have also considered moving to nikon a few times and even adapting my GM lenses for most part (basically treating nikon Z body like an e-mount body unless I want to use the 400mm/4.5). But that Z8 is too large and heavy for my liking. So I am sticking with the A7IV for now.

 

[simonbe]

A7r - Nov 2013
A7rii - August 2015
A7riii - october 2017
A7riv - july 2019
A7rV - oct 2022

I guess that's roughly every 2 years for that line.


They are updating it with bug fixes just not adding major features. One of the reasons I sold it.
They need to support their flagship better.



On the flip side if you are happy to wait a year or two before buying bodies (which you seem to be doing anyway) you will get a nice juicy discount on Sony

Prices of bodies is one thing, you should also consider prices of lenses. Sony has a larger set of options and larger used market.
That certainly helps keep the price down and for me reduce losses when I buy and sell which I do loads of.



I am the same. I sold the A1 to spend more on my lenses. I didn't think down the line A1 would hold its value very well and Sony not updating it with new features mean people will be selling their A1s more and more to upgrade or buy something else.
I have also considered moving to nikon a few times and even adapting my GM lenses for most part (basically treating nikon Z body like an e-mount body unless I want to use the 400mm/4.5). But that Z8 is too large and heavy for my liking. So I am sticking with the A7IV for now.

You know what it’s like. When you have money burning a hole in your pocket. I sold to trade up to the 7IV or 7R5. So I feel a bit vulnerable without a 2nd body in the bag. Only been without for a couple of weeks.

I’ve thinned down my lens line up and I am at a point where I’m not itching for anything. I scratched the 1.2 50mm - but found it way to front heavy for me. Great for studio but a pain as a carry round. Sold it on.

The Z8, 400mm & 1.4 converter weights in at 2300g, Sony and 200-600mm = 2852g.

 

[NewBeetle]

Can't lie, I was a little jealous having a play with someone's 800mm PF the other day , that lens is so light I was blown away.

 

[simonbe]

One from me - yesterday. Disappointing afternoon with only 1 dive at 8.30pm. Poor light. Couple of keepers from this set. I find it addictive - but not as addictive as one chap there last night who goes 8 or more times a year!

 

[snerkler]

A7r to a7r5 was 9 years. But slower releases on others.

It’s the inaction in the A1 is the worry and a bigger price point to trade up if they make a leap forward.

Nikons pricing is interesting.

Not apples with apples. The Z8 by January will probably be the same grey as the A7RV - £2800.

Other than extra subjects in the tracking I'm not sure what else they can do with the A1 so it's not something that concerns me

I'm amazed how 'cheap' the A7R V is grey, the A9II is still at the £3k mark despite being older and now the same price as the R5 UK.

 

[NewBeetle]

Other than extra subjects in the tracking I'm not sure what else they can do with the A1 so it's not something that concerns me

I'm amazed how 'cheap' the A7R V is grey, the A9II is still at the £3k mark despite being older and now the same price as the R5 UK.

The A7 'R' models always drop quickly in price. (especially grey)

 

[simonbe]

Other than extra subjects in the tracking I'm not sure what else they can do with the A1 so it's not something that concerns me

I'm amazed how 'cheap' the A7R V is grey, the A9II is still at the £3k mark despite being older and now the same price as the R5 UK.

It’s the flagship. As was the A9
On first release. The A9 had 6.0 firmware with many new features.

Sony can’t even put some of the new things from base line models onto the A1. This is the first version of the A camera. Just some support or 1 major 2.0 firmware would keep a few owners happy.

Maybe they can’t do some of the stuff from the A7RV because of the additional Ai chip.

Just a 2.0 with some of the basic stuff. As more cheaper offerings come onto the market Sony’s share will decrease.

If you were starting mirrorless today your decision wouldn’t be as clear cut as it was this time last year.

That A7RV is very tempting at grey prices!!

 

[snerkler]

It’s the flagship. As was the A9
On first release. The A9 had 6.0 firmware with many new features.

Sony can’t even put some of the new things from base line models onto the A1. This is the first version of the A camera. Just some support or 1 major 2.0 firmware would keep a few owners happy.

Maybe they can’t do some of the stuff from the A7RV because of the additional Ai chip.

Just a 2.0 with some of the basic stuff. As more cheaper offerings come onto the market Sony’s share will decrease.

If you were starting mirrorless today your decision wouldn’t be as clear cut as it was this time last year.

That A7RV is very tempting at grey prices!!

I’m not sure what the A1 is missing from the bassline? I think the A9 got more upgrades because new tech came out, the A1 had pretty much everything straight out of the box. As I said, it would be nice to have some of the other subjects such as insects, but cars and trains etc I’m not bothered as any tracking works well with this.

I think for me starting out Sony would be the obvious choice for me due to the lenses, but of course this will be different for everyone. I can certainly see the appeal of Nikon, and I'd certainly choose those over Canon at the moment.

 

[nandbytes]

I’m not sure what the A1 is missing from the bassline? I think the A9 got more upgrades because new tech came out, the A1 had pretty much everything straight out of the box. As I said, it would be nice to have some of the other subjects such as insects, but cars and trains etc I’m not bothered as any tracking works well with this.

Things like focus bracketing, focus breathing correction etc.

I think for me starting out Sony would be the obvious choice for me due to the lenses, but of course this will be different for everyone. I can certainly see the appeal of Nikon, and I'd certainly choose those over Canon at the moment.

 

[simonbe]

I’m not sure what the A1 is missing from the bassline? I think the A9 got more upgrades because new tech came out, the A1 had pretty much everything straight out of the box. As I said, it would be nice to have some of the other subjects such as insects, but cars and trains etc I’m not bothered as any tracking works well with this.

On other Sony cameras but not A1:
Animal eye AF in video
AF Assist
Focus breathing compensation
Focus map
Multi subject AF

And who wouldn’t want Sony to follow Nikon’s lead and be able to select which shutter sound??

 

[nandbytes]

The Z8, 400mm & 1.4 converter weights in at 2300g, Sony and 200-600mm = 2852g.

yes but have you seen this:

in many cases I am comparing f1.4 on sony vs. f1.8 on Nikon (if I drop to f1.8-2 on Sony there'll be a LOT more options and a lot smaller)

20G vs Z20/1.8


24/1.4 GM vs. Z24/1.8


Sony 35/1.4 GM vs. Z35/1.8


Sony 50mm f1.2 vs Z 50mm f1.2


Sigma 85/1.4 vs Z85/1.8

Can't lie, I was a little jealous having a play with someone's 800mm PF the other day , that lens is so light I was blown away.

I haven't tried the 800mm but have tried 400mm PF and its really amazing. Even tried it with 2x and its was still pretty decent.
That 800mm PF is lighter than my 200-600mm and the 400mm PF is lighter than Sony 100-400mm. Its just amazing what Nikon have achieved.
(of course there's some compromises like 100-400mm can focus a lot closer but I'd still pick 400mm PF)

 

[snerkler]

Things like focus bracketing, focus breathing correction etc.

Yeah they'd be good, not that I'd need either but I can see the benefit.

On other Sony cameras but not A1:
Animal eye AF in video
AF Assist
Focus breathing compensation
Focus map
Multi subject AF

And who wouldn’t want Sony to follow Nikon’s lead and be able to select which shutter sound??

Ahh yes, I always forget about video. Not something I use, but I can see that videographers would like it.

yes but have you seen this:

in many cases I am comparing f1.4 on sony vs. f1.8 on Nikon (if I drop to f1.8-2 on Sony there'll be a LOT more options and a lot smaller)

20G vs Z20/1.8
View attachment 393347

24/1.4 GM vs. Z24/1.8
View attachment 393348

Sony 35/1.4 GM vs. Z35/1.8
View attachment 393350

Sony 50mm f1.2 vs Z 50mm f1.2
View attachment 393351

Sigma 85/1.4 vs Z85/1.8
View attachment 393352



I haven't tried the 800mm but have tried 400mm PF and its really amazing. Even tried it with 2x and its was still pretty decent.
That 800mm PF is lighter than my 200-600mm and the 400mm PF is lighter than Sony 100-400mm. Its just amazing what Nikon have achieved.
(of course there's some compromises like 100-400mm can focus a lot closer but I'd still pick 400mm PF)

Nikon lenses are on the large size, I'm not sure why. The 50mm f1.2 is particularly ridiculous, the 85mm f1.2 even worse

 

[snerkler]

I have been mostly unwell so haven't had much time to take it out.
Just trying in my room and garden, its super nice. Really liking the close focus ability and also the size.


the update between gen 1 and 2 of each line is generally quicker because they try to fix issues as soon as possible. after that its a bit pushed out.

Sorry to hear you’ve been unwell, I hope you get well soon.

I think I will end up with the 20-70mm at some point, I’d like to test it on a camera first as off camera it didn’t feel as good to use as the Zeiss, obviously it’s better optically and has a more useful range, and the aperture ring and these outweigh the slightly plasticky feel.

 

[simonbe]

yes but have you seen this:

in many cases I am comparing f1.4 on sony vs. f1.8 on Nikon (if I drop to f1.8-2 on Sony there'll be a LOT more options and a lot smaller)

20G vs Z20/1.8
View attachment 393347

24/1.4 GM vs. Z24/1.8
View attachment 393348

Sony 35/1.4 GM vs. Z35/1.8
View attachment 393350

Sony 50mm f1.2 vs Z 50mm f1.2
View attachment 393351

Sigma 85/1.4 vs Z85/1.8
View attachment 393352



I haven't tried the 800mm but have tried 400mm PF and its really amazing. Even tried it with 2x and its was still pretty decent.
That 800mm PF is lighter than my 200-600mm and the 400mm PF is lighter than Sony 100-400mm. Its just amazing what Nikon have achieved.
(of course there's some compromises like 100-400mm can focus a lot closer but I'd still pick 400mm PF)

Some others I compared
50mm 1.4 GM v 1.8S



16-35mm F4 PZ v 14-30 F4 S


70-200mm f2.8


24-70mm f2.8

Love this website.

 

[woof woof]

The size of that Nikon body would put me off before getting to the lenses. It all seems a bit overkill for days out and pictures of flowers in the garden

Pergear again. Just a bit more than MFD.



I think this is a lovely lens, it has its issues but overall it's lovely and soooo small and sooo cheap. Everyone should have one

 

[snerkler]

Some others I compared
50mm 1.4 GM v 1.8S

View attachment 393360

16-35mm F4 PZ v 14-30 F4 S
View attachment 393362

70-200mm f2.8
View attachment 393364

24-70mm f2.8
View attachment 393365
Love this website.

Do none of the Nikon lenses have an aperture ring?

 

[woof woof]

Do none of the Nikon lenses have an aperture ring?

Looking at it, it seems to lack the direct controls of a Sony A7 series camera.

 

[snerkler]

Looking at it, it seems to lack the direct controls of a Sony A7 series camera.

Nikon controls are pretty good actually, I wish ISO on Sony was as easy to change as Nikon for example. The lenses on the other hand don’t seem to have as good controls.

 

[woof woof]

Nikon controls are pretty good actually, I wish ISO on Sony was as easy to change as Nikon for example. The lenses on the other hand don’t seem to have as good controls.

Just going by what I can see on the camera comparison site.

 

[nandbytes]

Sorry to hear you’ve been unwell, I hope you get well soon.

I have got a constant cough that just won't subside for some reason.
Not COVID though, and tbh having had COVID I much prefer that to wherever I have now!

I think I will end up with the 20-70mm at some point, I’d like to test it on a camera first as off camera it didn’t feel as good to use as the Zeiss, obviously it’s better optically and has a more useful range, and the aperture ring and these outweigh the slightly plasticky feel.

To me it feels just the same as all other GM lenses. It's very close in size and feel to the 35GM.

 

[nandbytes]

Do none of the Nikon lenses have an aperture ring?

No but you can program the focus ring to act like aperture ring.

 

[snerkler]

No but you can program the focus ring to act like aperture ring.

Still no markings though, and I prefer the aperture ring to click.

 

[nandbytes]

Some others I compared
50mm 1.4 GM v 1.8S

View attachment 393360

16-35mm F4 PZ v 14-30 F4 S
View attachment 393362

70-200mm f2.8
View attachment 393364

24-70mm f2.8
View attachment 393365
Love this website.

I mostly compared the lenses I have with their closest alternative.
In most cases Sony is smaller.

Though one lens I'm very envious of is the Z40mm f2

 

[woof woof]

I have got a constant cough that just won't subside for some reason.
Not COVID though, and tbh having had COVID I much prefer that to wherever I have now!

To me it feels just the same as all other GM lenses. It's very close in size and feel to the 35GM.

Golly. GWS.

I know how debilitating a cough can be. Many years ago I developed asthma due to exposure to solder fumes / rosin and I coughed non stop for years. Took me a very long time to get over it. Hope yours goes soon.

 

[simonbe]

Do none of the Nikon lenses have an aperture ring?

Not so far. I have it on a 50mm f1.4, but because it’s not on every lens I tend to get used to changing the aperture with the dials in manual, so thumb and finger for aperture and shutter speed. Forget I can on the lens. Sometimes catch it and can’t work out why it’s stuck at f4 etc. Doh!!

 

[nandbytes]

Golly. GWS.

I know how debilitating a cough can be. Many years ago I developed asthma due to exposure to solder fumes / rosin and I coughed non stop for years. Took me a very long time to get over it. Hope yours goes soon.

Thanks, yeah it really drains a lot of energy.
I don't have cold or fever or any other issues. Literally just a constant cough!

 

[snerkler]

Not so far. I have it on a 50mm f1.4, but because it’s not on every lens I tend to get used to changing the aperture with the dials in manual, so thumb and finger for aperture and shutter speed. Forget I can on the lens. Sometimes catch it and can’t work out why it’s stuck at f4 etc. Doh!!

I’ve only just started using aperture rings in the past month, became natural very quickly and I now prefer it.

 

[nandbytes]

Still no markings though, and I prefer the aperture ring to click.

No clicks but I like that they've made it customisable. Wish Sony would do the same.

 

[wookie6262]

I’m not sure what the A1 is missing from the bassline? I think the A9 got more upgrades because new tech came out, the A1 had pretty much everything straight out of the box. As I said, it would be nice to have some of the other subjects such as insects, but cars and trains etc I’m not bothered as any tracking works well with this.

I think for me starting out Sony would be the obvious choice for me due to the lenses, but of course this will be different for everyone. I can certainly see the appeal of Nikon, and I'd certainly choose those over Canon at the moment.

Auto capture
Pre Capture
120fps jpegs or better still 60 fps with better resolution
ability to set different WB on a second focus button
multiple exposures
ability to see a long exposure as it is being created like Olympus
In terms of just the basics the A1 is absolutely brilliant. However, Sony is very stingy in lots of areas other manufacturers seem to take for granted. Given the capability of the A1 to process RAW files at 30fps it must be capable of doing lots of the thing I have mentioned along with the other features mentioned by other posters. I am pondering another A1 and I have been offered a decent deal but I am also pondering a Z9 and use it with an adapter with Sony lenses with the bonus of lots of long glass being available in F mount that you can't even buy for Sony. Given I always shoot with a grip the Nikon is far far cheaper and much nicer in the hand. I would still keep shooting Sony as the lenses are so small and just brilliant to use along with excellent performance.
To me the next A1 is a good couple of years away and Sony will lose customers unless it can't add to the A1 like it did so brilliantly with the A9 or come out with an A9 iii which sits in teh sweet spot between A9 and A1 with speed but reasonable file sizes

 

[nandbytes]

I’ve only just started using aperture rings in the past month, became natural very quickly and I now prefer it.

Having originally used film cameras with manual lenses I am really used to having an aperture ring. Much prefer it to the dials.
Also why I prefer smaller cameras. Most of the film cameras were pretty small or roughly size of A7 series for most part

 

[wookie6262]

No clicks but I like that they've made it customisable. Wish Sony would do the same.

I'd love to be able to use the aperture rings to change exposure compensation

 

[snerkler]

No clicks but I like that they've made it customisable. Wish Sony would do the same.

I think you can with some third party e-mount lenses but it appears that all the new Sony lenses are getting a physical aperture ring and I guess there’s nothing they can do about the older lenses

 

[nandbytes]

I think you can with some third party e-mount lenses but it appears that all the new Sony lenses are getting a physical aperture ring and I guess there’s nothing they can do about the older lenses

With samyang lenses yes but you need to change that using their dock and software.
Sony should just add the option to the body.

 

[snerkler]

Auto capture
Pre Capture
120fps jpegs or better still 60 fps with better resolution
ability to set different WB on a second focus button
multiple exposures
ability to see a long exposure as it is being created like Olympus
In terms of just the basics the A1 is absolutely brilliant. However, Sony is very stingy in lots of areas other manufacturers seem to take for granted. Given the capability of the A1 to process RAW files at 30fps it must be capable of doing lots of the thing I have mentioned along with the other features mentioned by other posters. I am pondering another A1 and I have been offered a decent deal but I am also pondering a Z9 and use it with an adapter with Sony lenses with the bonus of lots of long glass being available in F mount that you can't even buy for Sony. Given I always shoot with a grip the Nikon is far far cheaper and much nicer in the hand. I would still keep shooting Sony as the lenses are so small and just brilliant to use along with excellent performance.
To me the next A1 is a good couple of years away and Sony will lose customers unless it can't add to the A1 like it did so brilliantly with the A9 or come out with an A9 iii which sits in teh sweet spot between A9 and A1 with speed but reasonable file sizes

I find 30fps way too much so I can’t imagine why people would want to shoot at 60fps let alone 120fps


Not having things like live composite and all those long exposure things is just a Sony thing rather than camera specific. However, it’s always baffled me why they choose not to add these features.

I’m not sure Sony will lose customers over the A1 not being updated, especially as other systems don’t offer anything hugely better to justify the change. I can see some might swap for the lenses but even then I can’t see it being huge as there’s only a few lenses Sony are missing compared to others yet they have some great options that others are missing.

I think as enthusiasts we swap our gear far more than pros, and a lot of the time it’s probably not rational

 

[snerkler]

With samyang lenses yes but you need to change that using their dock and software.
Sony should just add the option to the body.

As I say I think they’re going down the line of a separate aperture ring.

 

[Icee]

I’m not sure what the A1 is missing from the bassline? I think the A9 got more upgrades because new tech came out, the A1 had pretty much everything straight out of the box. As I said, it would be nice to have some of the other subjects such as insects, but cars and trains etc I’m not bothered as any tracking works well with this.

I would say the same thing and the big advantage of the A1 and A9 is the stacked sensor.

 

[wookie6262]

I find 30fps way too much so I can’t imagine why people would want to shoot at 60fps let alone 120fps


Not having things like live composite and all those long exposure things is just a Sony thing rather than camera specific. However, it’s always baffled me why they choose not to add these features.

I’m not sure Sony will lose customers over the A1 not being updated, especially as other systems don’t offer anything hugely better to justify the change. I can see some might swap for the lenses but even then I can’t see it being huge as there’s only a few lenses Sony are missing compared to others yet they have some great options that others are missing.

I think as enthusiasts we swap our gear far more than pros, and a lot of the time it’s probably not rational

It would be the enthusiast market I was talking about. There will still be loads waiting to swap their DSLRs and they will have their own criteria. Other brands just seem to cover more bases in their firmware. Its odd given Sony makes phones and loads of consumer electronics. You would think they would be out ahead in firmware but for me they are bottom of the table. For basic camera operations and lenses they are top of the pops imo and that was the reason I moved to them and what really counts. I still wish they tried a little harder and I would love it if they even came up with an A1 refreshed that welded the grip to the body and added a better battery and the ability to use CF express type B. It's easy to make the perfect camera on teh couch, far harder when profits and R&D etc need to be considered.

 

[imattersuk]

Thanks, yeah it really drains a lot of energy.
I don't have cold or fever or any other issues. Literally just a constant cough!

I had that for years, for me the cure was to stop using air con in cars.

 

[snerkler]

It would be the enthusiast market I was talking about. There will still be loads waiting to swap their DSLRs and they will have their own criteria. Other brands just seem to cover more bases in their firmware. It’s odd given Sony makes phones and loads of consumer electronics. You would think they would be out ahead in firmware but for me they are bottom of the table. For basic camera operations and lenses they are top of the pops imo and that was the reason I moved to them and what really counts. I still wish they tried a little harder and I would love it if they even came up with an A1 refreshed that welded the grip to the body and added a better battery and the ability to use CF express type B. It's easy to make the perfect camera on teh couch, far harder when profits and R&D etc need to be considered.

I’ve bemoaned manufacturers in the past holding back and not creating the perfect camera but honestly the A1 ticks all the boxes for me, however I can see from the discussion above that it’s still lacking for a number of people which I can understand. Unfortunately I can’t ever see Sony adding some of the software features of the likes of Olympus. I expect the A1 II to have all the various subject AI’s, possibly focus stacking and a higher frame rate, plus an upgraded EVF and LCD but whether this will tempt A1 users to upgrade I’m not so sure. My fear is that we’ll get more AI image processing and mobile phone type stuff on cameras moving forward.

I believe the reason for choosing the crazy expensive CF Express A is so that it’s dual compatible with SD cards. I’m glad it’s compatible with SD cards as they’re fast enough and CF Express are very expensive, although type B is cheaper than A. I guess if you’re a video shooter the CF express cards may be more of an issue.

 

[snerkler]

Some interesting lenses on the road map, sadly no ultra teles or tele primes.