The 2012 Season F1 Thread

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Stratman said:
Explained here.

In a nutshell a Renault engineer spotted the fuel pressure dropping and told him to stop 'to prevent engine damage'.
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I seen the explanation given above on several forums
but rule 6.6.2 states if a sample is to be given after a practice session it must be driven back to the pits under its own power EXCEPT in the case of force majeure
At all times a litre of fuel must be available for sampling
There are no complex calculations listed in this rule about how much fuel is needed to get from point X on the track at Y speed, taking the most direct route taking into consideration tempreture etc then deducting this from the remaining fuel and seeing if a litre is left Its much easier just to say give us a litre
They just didnt have enough to sample similar to hamilton but hamys force majure couldnt be proved
I may be wrong but I would have to see the reg that states stewards must have a calc to the amount of fuel needed to travel a set distance for each car on the track
 
Fascinating race tactically and definitely plenty of over enthusiasm beating ability going on in various places. Was happy enough to see Kimi take the win, he has been quietly getting on with it all season, been pretty consistent [his position in the championship backs that up] and has finally taken a deserved win. :thumbs:
 
Leave me alone

Another Kimi classic
 
Isn't it about time that a car penalised grid positions must start from the grid and not gain an advantage by starting from the pit lane?
 
IIRC, Vettel was DQed from quali rather than demoted down the grid, so had to start from the pit lane - a bigger disadvantage than being at the back of the grid. If starting from the pitlane, you're not allowed to start starting until the last car passes a line, while those starting from the back of the grid can go when the lights go out (as long as they avoid those in front and beside them!).

Kimi's finest quote was when he was asked where he was while Schumacher's retirement photo was being taken - "I was having a *same sweary he used on the podium*"
 
He was due to start from the back of the grid but they took the car out of parc firme to find out where the missing fuel went (supposedly) but this allowed them to alter 7th gear ratio and adjust the downforce plus god knows what all not allowed in parc but the rules say you must under those conditions start from the pit lane which is a massive disadvantage
Back of the grid is behind all the other cars. From box all the cars have to pass the end of the pit lane, by the time seb hit the track they had all cleared off
I think seb holds the record for sweary's on the podium did you see kimis face when he used the f word

Technical on crash net
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/185785/1/wholesale_changes_as_vettel_faces_pit-lane_start.html
 
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I missed the podium interviews because I had held off going for a pee until the flag dropped and HAD to go! I reckon Kimi's face dropped because he hadn't used the F word in his interview!

To be fair to both, English isn't their first language and they have only ever used it in an adult environment, where the F and S words are in general use and rarely cause offence. Middle of the day television may not be the best place to use them but I certainly wasn't offended!

Not been well for the first part of the year, so haven't read the full regulations (I usually do). As you say, the pit lane start is a distinct disadvantage but the adjustments it allow probably are, as is having an extraordinarily talented driver!
 
Driver starting from the pitlane has to wait until the last last car passes the apex of first corner, according to DC. So it definitely is a disadvantage
 
mxfun said:
Driver starting from the pitlane has to wait until the last last car passes the apex of first corner, according to DC. So it definitely is a disadvantage
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Due to the length of the pit lane at abu Charlie gave a dispensation and let seb go when he lost sight of the last car(as you say on the apex of the first corner) but normally its when the last car clears the pit lane exit does he flip the lights to green for the pits

Some say Vettel was lucky???
Starts from next to the dumpsters, smashes his front wing, passes the back markers twice, pits twice, gives a hard fought place back, passes the crashing trio, passes button and ends up on the podium
and thats lucky ?

The f word was unexpected but certainly not offensive, full marks to Coultard for pointing out the language problem and carrying on as if nothing had occurred Only the sensitives would have been offended probably on the behalf of someone else
 
Kimi has had 500 t shirts made with the slogan "Leave me alone I know what I am doing "
for all the Lotus staff
As for podium swearing 22 complaints to the bbc about the words Over 30 complaints because the I player was delayed to remove the offending words
Just about says it all
 
So will it be decided today, or will we have to wait till Brazil......I think Alonso will make him work for it, but I think Seb will bag it up in Texas!! :)
 
Apparantly Ferrari have changed Massa's gearbox. Which, of course, benefits Alonso.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Apparantly Ferrari have changed Massa's gearbox. Which, of course, benefits Alonso.
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Even more so as it puts him on the odd side of the grid as well as 1 more position closer to the 4th position if vettal wins

Should get Hulk if its true the even side is worse than a wet start then he has shchui to contend with, will get him I reckon before lap 10 but then he has Kimi ????
With mad mal and grosjean close he is going to need all his luck in this one
I bet he is praying to the alternator god to deliver a blow to the bulls

poor old faithful Massa gets the three card trick again
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Apparantly Ferrari have changed Massa's gearbox. Which, of course, benefits Alonso.
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After putting a screwdriver through an oil seal...

"The other teams would do the same. We were worried that Red Bull would do Mark Webber to put Alonso back on the dirty side so we screwed Massa at the last moment to reduce that possibility."

I just hope Felipe's pay cheque reflects the amount of lube he has needed over the years!
 
I dunno why people are getting in a fluster over what Ferrari did. Their priority is to ensure that Alonso wins the championship. If the situation were reversed Red Bull would have done it. Other teams, notable McLaren have been known to use unpalatable methods (much to their cost) too.
Great race, plenty of action and the finale should be a cracker. I really hope Alonso can pull it off.
 
andy700 said:
I think it would be fair if they DQ'd Alonso over this latest bit of cheating.
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That's just ridiculous. What did Alonso do wrong?

Your link also point to wrongdoings by Renault, not Ferrari. As I pointed out earlier a number of teams have done things that leave a nasty taste in the mouth including the current Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren. Yet for some reason you don't feel the team be punished but one (and only one) of their drivers.
 
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Ricardodaforce said:
That's just ridiculous. What did Alonso do wrong?

Couldnt agree more
Not only did Alonso do no wrong Ferrari did no wrong
They broke an fia seal on the gearbox and got 5 grid places penalty Thats the rules Nothing more nothing less
This is a team sport
Massa (he knows his status poor lad) if miffed made up for it in the race, his best to date and was one of the fastest lappers out there
Red bull must be really worried, they have the car and driver but they just dont have that bag of luck Alonso carries with him to counteract Newey magic

A quote from Newey over the alternators
Red Bull's chief technical officer Adrian Newey said: "The component is not a new component. It has been on the Renault engine since about 2005 and it has been failing since 2005 as well."
Bodes well for Brazil
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Mark Webber's reaction to Martin's question about the gearbox seal says it all for me. F1 has really gone downhill this year for me.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Other teams, notable McLaren have been known to use unpalatable methods (much to their cost) too.
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I take it that's a reference to "Stepneygate", with the Stepney in the name being a Ferrari employee at the time. Yes, the whole episode was most unpallateable and cost McLaren £100,000,000 (IIRC, although it may have been $ or € rather than £ - still a whole lot of cash!). Just trying to remember which of the McLaren drivers asked for information from the dossier and received the answer - Yup, Teflonso, who tried to blackmail his team over his knowledge and received immunity from sanction for his testimony. No wonder Ferrari hired him - he must fit in with their "win at any cost" philosophy very well! Having another teammate at another team crash delberately so he (Teflonso) gained an advantage had nothing to do with FA, did it? Despite the drivers sharing a manager (and team boss) who ended up being (in horse racing terms) warned off the course.

Sorry, Alonso may well be talented (let's face it, all F1 drivers are a damn sight better than us!) but he's also a proven cheat and needs his lapdogs' help to win both races and championships.
 
You obviously don't remember the FIA finding Lewis Hamilton AND McLaren guilty of cheating 3 years ago. Hamilton was excluded from a race result and his sporting director was suspended.
The Ferrari driver is called Fernando Alonso, not Teflonso, and if you say he is a proven cheat then why don't you say the same of Hamilton, who the FIA sancioned precisely for lying and cheating?
Remember how McLaren tried to cheat during qualifying in Barcelona this year too? That didn't work out well for Hamiliton either did it?
You may feel justified in calling Alonso a cheat, but the rest of the leading drivers are no angels either. But you seem able to admit that.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
You may feel justified in calling Alonso a cheat, but the rest of the leading drivers are no angels either. But you seem able to admit that.
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Indeed, I am able to admit that very few are angels but others seem to get sabctionned for their misdemeanours while the cheat I'm referring to doesn't.
 
Nod said:
Indeed, I am able to admit that very few are angels but others seem to get sabctionned for their misdemeanours while the cheat I'm referring to doesn't.
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Alonso did not cheat this weekend. I don't see the issue. If you really find cheating hard to swallow then surely you'd want Hamilton permanently excluded from F1 for willfully lying to the FIA.

Incidentally re "Stepneygate", following the FIA hearing it was announced that McLaren was to be fined $100m, have their points stripped from the 2007 Constructor's Championship, and be required to submit their 2008 car designs to the FIA by December 2007, pending exclusion from the 2008 championship if they were found to contain Ferrari's intellectual property.

So surely the greatest act of cheating in F1 history (certainly the most financially punished) was by McLaren. Strange that it's only Alonso that you hold a grudge against for cheating though.
 
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Of the McLaren drivers at that time, Alonso was the only one to have been aware of the existence of the dossier and to ask for information from it. At the time, I was all for McLaren being excluded from F1.

And were McLaren excluded from the 2008 season due to Ferrari designs being found? No, no more than Ferrari (let's not forget that it was an employee of theirs who stole the information in the first place) were punished.
 
Well, no team has really cheated this year (as far as we know) so onwards and upwards.

What a great race in Texas! Those who state the new rules make it "artificial" (which it doesn't), well, if it continues to provide the fans with races like that, and seasons like this one I will continue to be a very happy F1 fan.

Bring on Brazil, as good as Alonso is, my money is on Vettel and Red Bull, but I'd love to see Alonso take it.
 
After all, Massa's taken it from Alonso a couple of times this season!!!
 
The two best races this year for me had bad tyre choices by Pirelli
They made them last, that says it all for me about artifical racing
It could be argued that the drivers have got the measure of the tyres except for Pirelli admiting that they will be more aggressive in abu next year and they underestimated cota's tarmac this year due to not knowing its abrasive qualitys
As far as cheating goes, once F1 became big money Gentle man jim was given his marching orders and to some degree or other they all spy on each other and pull stunts that are dispicable
But penalise Alonso for what being in a ferrari car ?????
 
Nod said:
Indeed, I am able to admit that very few are angels but others seem to get sabctionned for their misdemeanours while the cheat I'm referring to doesn't.
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:thumbs:
Thats the way I see it.
 
He shouldn't! Neither should the team have punished Massa for outqualifying their golden boy. Like them or not though, team orders are and always have been part of Grand Prix and F1 racing.

At a guess, the race team managers are desperate to justify Alonso's wage cheque so are desperate to salvage something. Can't have the cheap guy doing well, can we? "Felipe, Fernando's faster than you, do you understand?" "Felipe, you're catching Fernando too fast, back off". (Paraphrased due to bad memory!) And wasn't it '99 when Irvine was foiled when he had a bloody good shot at winning the WDC after his team mate broke his leg at Silverstone?
 
fuzzyedges said:
The two best races this year for me had bad tyre choices by Pirelli
They made them last, that says it all for me about artifical racing
It could be argued that the drivers have got the measure of the tyres except for Pirelli admiting that they will be more aggressive in abu next year and they underestimated cota's tarmac this year due to not knowing its abrasive qualitys
As far as cheating goes, once F1 became big money Gentle man jim was given his marching orders and to some degree or other they all spy on each other and pull stunts that are dispicable
But penalise Alonso for what being in a ferrari car ?????
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You're obsessed with those tyres!
 
Nod said:
He shouldn't! Neither should the team have punished Massa for outqualifying their golden boy.

I think you are a bit off there
There are only Alonso and Vettel that can win the crown
To change / whatever Massas gearbox was a sensible decision, although not maybe ethical in some eyes it was a good move and certainly not against the rules
What would people be calling Ferrari if massa had pushed alonso into 5th and Vettal had won
Massas a great No2, next year he maybe a No1 but he has to drive a damn site better than he did at the begining of this season in fact he would have to drive like he has just done in every race next year and pinch some of Alonsos luck just to be in with a shout
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I can't help but feel that if Alonso gets the title it will be a hollow victory.

Granted Webber has hardly pushed Seb this year, but he kept him honest and doesn't easily play second fiddle. But Alonso would always know that he had to screw over his team mate many many times and take none-racing advantages to get there....he has done some epic driving this season, but can't help feel the championship would be a little soured if he gets it.
 
odd jim said:
You're obsessed with those tyres!
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Maybe its because all the other gadgets are go faster devices
The tyres are go slower devices
This is F1 the pinnicle of motor sport and they are developing go slower tyres
Look what the top drivers did when unleashed Would the mac of Hamilton been able to overtake Vettle and conserve his rubber or would they all have been racing slowly to the chequered flag ????
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
I can't help but feel that if Alonso gets the title it will be a hollow victory.

Ruling out DNF's this is how he has to do it
By finishing first with Vettel fifth or lower
- By finishing second with Vettel eighth or lower
- By finishing third with Vettel 10th or lower
With a DNF for Vettal he still has to finnish 3rd (infront of hamilton button webber kimi assuming two of those are 1 & 2 he will stand a good chance as massa will side shift for him but there are still some fast cars and drivers out there that intermitantly go stella )

Thats some epic driving to achieve the crown
Its his luck that will do it if he does
He will need the help of the gods of kers / alternators and crap tyres to smite the bulls me thinks (or a combo of mad mal, grosjean and kobyashi all attacking the red bull of vettal)
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fuzzyedges said:
Maybe its because all the other gadgets are go faster devices
The tyres are go slower devices
This is F1 the pinnicle of motor sport and they are developing go slower tyres
Look what the top drivers did when unleashed Would the mac of Hamilton been able to overtake Vettle and conserve his rubber or would they all have been racing slowly to the chequered flag ????
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I'm not sure why you think it's such a big deal TBH? You don't hear the drivers moaning about it...
 
odd jim said:
I'm not sure why you think it's such a big deal TBH? You don't hear the drivers moaning about it...
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Dont you?
I couldnt get the tyres in the right window
It takes a lap to get them up to temp and scrub off the sheen
My tyres are gone
Look after the rears / fronts
Its all about tyres even the areodynamics are skewed to heat / cool the tyres
Exhausts have been directed at the tyres for heat

The tyres are the biggest thing out there that effects the outcome of lap times Those who can get the best out of them usually are up at the front
Pirelli have developed the worst tyres ever another bright imput from bernie
 
fuzzyedges said:
Dont you?
I couldnt get the tyres in the right window
It takes a lap to get them up to temp and scrub off the sheen
My tyres are gone
Look after the rears / fronts
Its all about tyres even the areodynamics are skewed to heat / cool the tyres
Exhausts have been directed at the tyres for heat

The tyres are the biggest thing out there that effects the outcome of lap times Those who can get the best out of them usually are up at the front
Pirelli have developed the worst tyres ever another bright imput from bernie
Click to expand...

F1 has been like that for years, it's nothing new.

The tyre wars we used to have we're far more artificial. Remember Damon Hill winning at Hungary in an Arrows???
 
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