The 2012 Season F1 Thread

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The answer has to be
Fangio 5 times winner
Senna 3 times a winner
Clark 2 times a winner

but in which order
 
fuzzyedges said:
The answer has to be
Fangio 5 times winner
Senna 3 times a winner
Clark 2 times a winner

but in which order
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1. Clark
2. Senna
3. Fangio

Although to be fair, it could be in any order you wanted and it would be hard to argue against.
 
Where is tommorrow going to take us
Webber rear gunning for vettal (unless he goes aboriginal) and holding up hamy and alonso
Button holding up alonso to give hammy a chance and not a grosjean / kobyashi or a madmal in sight to use bulldozer tactics
Or are they all going to go for N01 on track and sod team orders (I doubt it but)
 
fuzzyedges said:
Where is tommorrow going to take us
Webber rear gunning for vettal (unless he goes aboriginal) and holding up hamy and alonso
Button holding up alonso to give hammy a chance and not a grosjean / kobyashi or a madmal in sight to use bulldozer tactics
Or are they all going to go for N01 on track and sod team orders (I doubt it but)
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Not too bad a prediction having just watched the race.

I so desperately want Vettel to have a slight slip up soon. I don't want to be going to Brazil with it all sorted out.:shake:
 
I much prefer the championship hanging on the last race too but RB seem to be on a roll atm.

Just watching the very diplomatic after race comments :)
 
Whats' the opinion on the McLaren pit stop? 5 wheels changed in 3.2 seconds.
Four rubber ones, and one for Lewis to steer the car with.
 
this is the incident in question
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Iaw7qeyMA

the mclaren stop was very impressive. QRsteering wheel bosses are a pain to fit in a hurry as they naturally have to be quite tight on the splines to ensure they have no play in the system, being anything other than lined up and straight and you struggle, so to do that in 3 seconds is impressive.

there is another style of wheel used often in endurance racing when there driver changes take place, and it has no splines on it, and it can be positioned in any position and will snap on however it will rotate freely until it hits the straight ahead position where it will "snap" into position - very impressive.


the other good thing i liked about the hamilton stop was that as soon as he got going down the pit lane the first thing he did was jank the wheel towards himself to check it was fully fastened, thats something i tell all the students I have working on our cars and I also drill it into drivers that they must check the wheel is locked on before driving, so always pull it towards yourself.


very impressive for both McLaren and Hamilton (who appeared to be chuffed to bits with what they managed in that stop)
 
If you heard Hammy chirup after the race it left you in no doubt as to how races should be RACING not tyre / fuel managers, all out It might not be so entertaining for the masses but come on how long will it last with these artifical races before it gets turn off time
At least Koby and Madmal had a lovein Grosjean must have felt neglected
It would appear ferrari's light fueling of Massa to keep Kimi at bay in case the Lotus up dates worked, but a risky tactic
 
Kimi in the lotus for next year then but grosjean not signed up yet ????
 
fuzzyedges said:
If you heard Hammy chirup after the race it left you in no doubt as to how races should be RACING not tyre / fuel managers, all out It might not be so entertaining for the masses but come on how long will it last with these artifical races before it gets turn off time
At least Koby and Madmal had a lovein Grosjean must have felt neglected
It would appear ferrari's light fueling of Massa to keep Kimi at bay in case the Lotus up dates worked, but a risky tactic
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I don't think these races are artificial. They've all got kers and DRS, it's just another tactical way to race and use their heads. It's no difference to the over boost buttons in the 80's.
 
Your forgetting the tyres which this season is all about
Its no good saying they all have the same because the people who are using them seem to have diffrent views about them
There is just too many variables
Drivers cant race to the best of their abilities only to slow down to manage tyres and fuel
We might as well have bernies water sprinklers
 
fuzzyedges said:
Your forgetting the tyres which this season is all about
Its no good saying they all have the same because the people who are using them seem to have diffrent views about them
There is just too many variables
Drivers cant race to the best of their abilities only to slow down to manage tyres and fuel
We might as well have bernies water sprinklers
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Er, nothing's changed there, they've always had to manage fuel and tyres, hense why they are Grand Prix races and not all out sprints... And I think the views on how to utilise kers and DRS are fairly universal are they not?
 
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I seem to remeber pit stops for fuel and tyres that lasted a race
Red bulls kers seem to be one down from Maclarens or at least not that reliable and drs or ddrs front wing / rear wing is not the same through out the grid so not universal
There are still cars with no kers and not all drs works the same so they havnt yet sanitised F1 although they keep trying and adding all these gizmo's to increase overtaking to foul up the aerodynamics is artifical along with rapid wear tyres to have pit stops
Hopefully 2014 will see severe restrictions on aerodynamics (that prevent overtaking) along with drs as 2013 sees the back of ddrs (well most of it)
Nothing against kers as this is an engine enhancement although in 2014 it will be ers from all sources, bigger and used longer
 
fuzzyedges said:
I seem to remeber pit stops for fuel and tyres that lasted a race
Red bulls kers seem to be one down from Maclarens or at least not that reliable and drs or ddrs front wing / rear wing is not the same through out the grid so not universal
There are still cars with no kers and not all drs works the same so they havnt yet sanitised F1 although they keep trying and adding all these gizmo's to increase overtaking to foul up the aerodynamics is artifical along with rapid wear tyres to have pit stops
Hopefully 2014 will see severe restrictions on aerodynamics (that prevent overtaking) along with drs as 2013 sees the back of ddrs (well most of it)
Nothing against kers as this is an engine enhancement although in 2014 it will be ers from all sources, bigger and used longer
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Pit stops for fuel only appeared for a few seasons before they went back to one tank, one race as they always have done. DRS is rear wing only, and is the same for all teams. As for reliability, nothing's changed there, that's down to the teams to sort out, as it has been since the first ever GP race 60 odd years ago. Your argument has no substance, we are now where we always have been. KERS and DRS is universal and doesn't advantage one team over any other, all DRS does is level the main rear wing plane (on all the cars). It just adds another tactical element which is down to the DRIVER to deploy, so in actual fact it puts more emphasis on the drivers judgement and skill. And it's only the HRT team running without KERS and they elected not to use after the first race in order to actually save weight and qualify for races (as with the extra wight they were outside 107% of qualifying time).

I've not seen a GP race where tyres are capable of lasting a full race though, maybe in the 50's but not in the modern era!

I know what you're saying about aero, what they need to do is go back to more mechanical grip but again, this has been the way F1 has been for the last two decades.
 
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fuzzyedges said:
I seem to remeber pit stops for fuel and tyres that lasted a race
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We've had no refuelling and no tyre changes (or tyre changes were allowed but no-one did them) - I remember this back in the 1980s and some drivers were better at preserving the tyres and made overtakes at the end of the race. We also saw drivers run out of fuel in the closing laps.

We've had refuelling and tyre changes which did make the races flat out sprints. The Schumacher / Brawn combination at Ferrari were masters of this.

We've had refuelling and no tyre changes so the tyres had to last a race, who remembers Kimi's front suspension disintegrating on the final lap of a GP when he was leading, due to the vibration caused by a flatspot on a tyre he could not change? This particular set of rules did not last that long.

Now we have tyre changes and no refuelling. Pirelli have made it so that tyre strategy and management is important, which is what was asked for, and the result is that in the first 2/3rds of this year the races have been very competitive - look at how long it took for a repeat winner this year. It's only in the last four races with Vettel dominating that things have got relatively dull (plus, with the exception of Japan I don't like those circuits as much as a Monza or a Spa).

I really hope there is still a championship to play for at Interlagos.
 
Teams have indeed always needed to manage tyres, but when we had proper racing the teams could choose their tyres. Now the single manufacturer makes the choices for them, and Bernie's playstation rules force both types to be used.

All that's missing is the windmill and the clown's mouth.
 
Drs is rear wing only with the exception of mercedes
DRS is there to counteract the fact you coundnt overtake a good areodynamic car without this gizmo
DRS is now ddrs in the case of mercedes red bull possably ferrari and maclaren
DRS can only be used once or rarely twice in a race but all the time in practise (why)unless deemed unsafe This is red bulls secret there ddrs is the best and if they can get pole and second on the grid in any order they will romp the rest of the races
I still say its artifical
Tyres you have to race even though you know they are not as good as the other ones on offer
A flap to kill the areo so you can defeat the areo of the car in front
F1 has now become a celebrity show the same as wrestling did in the 70's All fake, great entertainment untill everyone got bored of it
Its quite obvious after India the drivers prefer all out racing and I bet the teams do too but what does Bernie like? oh yes short term money
 
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fuzzyedges said:
Drs is rear wing only with the exception of mercedes
DRS is there to counteract the fact you coundnt overtake a good areodynamic car without this gizmo
DRS is now ddrs in the case of mercedes red bull possably ferrari and maclaren
DRS can only be used once or rarely twice in a race but all the time in practise (why)unless deemed unsafe This is red bulls secret there ddrs is the best and if they can get pole and second on the grid in any order they will romp the rest of the races
I still say its artifical
Tyres you have to race even though you know they are not as good as the other ones on offer
A flap to kill the areo so you can defeat the areo of the car in front
F1 has now become a celebrity show the same as wrestling did in the 70's All fake, great entertainment untill everyone got bored of it
Its quite obvious after India the drivers prefer all out racing and I bet the teams do too but what does Bernie like? oh yes short term money
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Nope, it's still rear wing only on the Mercedes, though it has two holes that channel air towards the front of the car via internal channels and out onto the front end plates when the rear wing "opens". What benefits they get is still open to question, but the common thought is 'not a lot' after the first couple of races. It's not officially part of the DRS system which is why it's still within the rules, it's simple aerodynamic tweaking. Other teams have also experimented with similar ideas.

Racing is better now IMO, so I really don't see the issue. There is no DRS system that is significantly any better than any other. Technology is always evolving, if it didn't, they still be driving front engined BRMs.
 
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We are obviously going to differ odd Jim
but here is what Hembery of pirellie had to say after India
"We would love to have a bigger range of compounds, then we could have a bigger range of solutions for each track to guarantee a two or three-stop strategy," Hembery told AUTOSPORT.

This is not the mind set of drivers or engineers you do not evolve backwards
Any inovation in F1 that is not usable in road car technology should have rules against it This would keep the manufacturers intrested and car firms outside F1 a desire to join
 
interesting qualifying
Alonso's hopes must be pinned on the red bull having serious problems or mad mal being alongside Vettel on the grid
Hammy is way on form this could bring him 3rd in the championship but then webber might think thats his
 
Best of all for me is the 4th row of the grid!!!

0.3 seconds ahead of 2nd place? That's some pole lap.

Wonder if poor old Massa will hear "You're faster than Fernando, please back off" again?
 
Nod said:
Wonder if poor old Massa will hear "You're faster than Fernando, please back off" again?
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I wonder if they'll say that to Webber when he's 22 places in front of Vettel.
Because it looks like Sebastian might be starting at the back of the grid if that fuel tank investigation currently going on says theres not enough in there.
 
Not if there are still 22 places between them! If Webber's the car in front and there's enough of an advantage in points to be had, it's another story! Quite a big IF concerning the fuel level situation too. Given their reliability issues, I would reckon it's something other than low fuel that made them stop him. Last thing they would want is to either fall foul of the regulations or have an engine blow and need to replace it overnight. We'll see when the investigation's complete though.
 
Fuel seems to have been the problem! 0.85l left when he stopped apparently. :D I don't want Alonso to win but I don't want Vettel to have it too easy.
 
Bar Alonso retiring, it looks like the championship will be decided in Brazil.....should be a great end to the season!! :)
 
Vettel is starting from the pit lane
They can now change gear ratios and wing angles to suit a kamakasi run from the rear
Renault are still looking for the missing fuel in the fuel cell they reckon its hiding around a corner somewhere
Mad mal can now go sideways for Kimi or straight ahead for webber
Alonso is such a lucky sod its unreal
 
How very foolish of RBR to underfuel Vettel!

Maybe they should have pressed the engine destruct button and taken the 5 place grid penalty...

Best of luck to him in the run through the field - should make for a more interesting race if nothing else.

Go, Alonso! (Straight into axle deep gravel, preferrably!)
 
Renault still say fuel is in the cell somewhere
Had he stopped on track earlier he would be starting in 3rd on the grid
The stewards accepted the data what he stopped with was "force majure" its only when he got back to parc ferrme that it was found he was missing a tenth of a litre
What the force majure was is another thing yet to be released to us
**** happens
Seb could have fun mixing it in the mid field Maybe he will shine maybe he wont
Alonso is the one with the problems hes got one or two good drivers in front of him with very fast cars (in respect of lap times) even if the ferrari is one of the fastest on the straights
 
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RE that Mirror story - the Indian GP was 7 days ago, not weeks as reported.

I sincerely hope that Murdoch doesn't get control - although I have Sky, I would hate F1 to vanish from terrestrial viewing.

I wonder if the Ferrari ex-boss's visit to a GP has any bearing on a Ferrari rival's problems with the stewards?
 
Glad I'm so well recovered! First race I've watched from lights to flag this year and what a race to come back to. Top 4 all ex or current world champions and yet another race winner.

Shame someone had electrical gremlins and that there were too many examples of enthusiasm over talent but that's racing.

Yes, 3rd place man had some luck but also missed out on a final pitstop under the last safety car.

Must be galling for Renault to hear the British national anthem rather than the Marseilaise...
 
Poor winner though - he's notorious for rather enjoying the odd glass or 2 and has been glugging on the victory bottle but IIRC, Abu Dhabi is a Muslim state so there's no champagne - certainly no Mumm logos on the podium backdrop!
 
Nod said:
Poor winner though - he's notorious for rather enjoying the odd glass or 2 and has been glugging on the victory bottle but IIRC, Abu Dhabi is a Muslim state so there's no champagne - certainly no Mumm logos on the podium backdrop!
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There certainly are beer tents at the track. Although they are not advertised or signed-up. £7 a pint from what I remember when I was there.
Best race of the year so far without a doubt. Looking for a last race decider. Fingers crossed.
 
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