Studio Lighting issue

donkeymusic

donkeymusic

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Carlo
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Hello,

I had recently moved studio and been testing the lighting, and having the same issue that i was experiencing in the previous studio space.

I have added a photo with the off colour sections to see how they are not showing as white.

Just looking for any advice on how to improve this to get it closer to white. I have two Lencarta flash heads lighting the background which was the same as before so i presume it must be something to do with the flash heads?

_DSC0001-1 by Carlo Mullen, on Flickr
 
so would you say it was just a white balance issue? using lightroom and changing the WB settings i still get the orange tint
 
Colour is a white balance issue (assuming the background is actually clean white) and the shading is uneven exposure, looking like basic inverse square law fall-off.

Just a thought on the colour, do you have the flash on low power and the modelling lights on? With the Lencarta Smartflash the modelling light is always on full, and with the ElitePro models it is far from 'proportional' and only turns down one stop from max even when the flash power is set to minimum. This can sometimes influence the white balance. If you are also using a longish shutter speed, that will start to exagerate the influence of the modelling light.
 
HoppyUK said:
Colour is a white balance issue (assuming the background is actually clean white) and the shading is uneven exposure, looking like basic inverse square law fall-off.
Click to expand...
:plusone:

HoppyUK said:
Just a thought on the colour, do you have the flash on low power and the modelling lights on? With the Lencarta Smartflash the modelling light is always on full, and with the ElitePro models it is far from 'proportional' and only turns down one stop from max even when the flash power is set to minimum. This can sometimes influence the white balance. If you are also using a longish shutter speed, that will start to exagerate the influence of the modelling light.
Click to expand...
Agreed, up to a point - but the flash would need to be on a VERY low power setting AND be very close for the modelling lamp to affect the colour temp - and in any event a CWB would take it into account and fix it.
At a guess, I would say that the colour temp is way, way out, maybe 600-800K. And the SmartFlash colour temperature variation, full power to minimum power, is only 227K
 
Garry Edwards said:
:plusone:


Agreed, up to a point - but the flash would need to be on a VERY low power setting AND be very close for the modelling lamp to affect the colour temp - and in any event a CWB would take it into account and fix it.
At a guess, I would say that the colour temp is way, way out, maybe 600-800K. And the SmartFlash colour temperature variation, full power to minimum power, is only 227K
Click to expand...

Yes, true. I'm thinking if maybe a combination of low flash power and a long shutter speed like 1/30sec or something (perhaps accidentally) would drag in the influence of the modelling light and throw the colour.
 
Garry Edwards said:
:plusone:


Agreed, up to a point - but the flash would need to be on a VERY low power setting AND be very close for the modelling lamp to affect the colour temp - and in any event a CWB would take it into account and fix it.
At a guess, I would say that the colour temp is way, way out, maybe 600-800K. And the SmartFlash colour temperature variation, full power to minimum power, is only 227K
Click to expand...

am i presuming the flash heads i have are not powerful enough then?
 
HoppyUK said:
Colour is a white balance issue (assuming the background is actually clean white) and the shading is uneven exposure, looking like basic inverse square law fall-off.

Just a thought on the colour, do you have the flash on low power and the modelling lights on? With the Lencarta Smartflash the modelling light is always on full, and with the ElitePro models it is far from 'proportional' and only turns down one stop from max even when the flash power is set to minimum. This can sometimes influence the white balance. If you are also using a longish shutter speed, that will start to exagerate the influence of the modelling light.
Click to expand...

The background is a white paper roll.

The flash heads are on 1/2 power and no modelling light switched on. These are Lencarta SmartFlash. Using shutter speed of 1/125.
 
donkeymusic said:
am i presuming the flash heads i have are not powerful enough then?
Click to expand...
Why are you presuming that?
What both Richard and I are saying is that you can only get a colour cast from the modelling lamps if ALL these conditions are true, but it turns out that none of them are true.
1. The modelling lamp is switched on - it isn't
2. The flash head is very close to the subject - it isn't
3. The flash power is set to minimum or thereabouts - it isn't
4. You are using an abnormally long shutter speed - you're not.

Your SmartFlash 200 heads are perfectly adequate, you just need to set the white balance properly.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Why are you presuming that?
What both Richard and I are saying is that you can only get a colour cast from the modelling lamps if ALL these conditions are true, but it turns out that none of them are true.
1. The modelling lamp is switched on - it isn't
2. The flash head is very close to the subject - it isn't
3. The flash power is set to minimum or thereabouts - it isn't
4. You are using an abnormally long shutter speed - you're not.

Your SmartFlash 200 heads are perfectly adequate, you just need to set the white balance properly.
Click to expand...

I suppose i wasn't presuming that i was just questioning if had powerful enough flash heads.

I can't quite get my head around the orange cast that i am getting, trying to get this right in the camera, the reduce PP. Any advice on how to overcome this issue is very much appreciated.

Thanks
 
You just need to set a custom white balance on your camera. I have no idea how to do that on your model, but it will be in your instruction book and it's usually very simple
 
Shoot grey card first, calibrate your custom WB and shoot away.
 
It's white balance.

How are you setting it in camera? If you do a post white balance off the white patch on the boy's trainer then everything pretty much balances out. I.e. all lights are running at the same colour it's the camera.
 
Michael Sewell said:
What are you using to light the background? It may be your light is actually focused at the base of the background, and not providing adequate wash across the full height.
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,

I am using two Lencarta Smarftflash head with background reflectors, i am focusing the flash heads so that the light span has a slight overlap in the middle of the background.
 
Do you have the shot with the grey card in? Is it actually grey....?

Can you post it?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Do you have the shot with the grey card in? Is it actually grey....?

Can you post it?
Click to expand...

not got the photos with me at the moment, i do recall the RGB values were at 65%, any ideas what they should be at?

thanks
 
And anything between about 30% and 80% (so you are in the linear area of the sensor response).
 
+1 for the "is it actually a grey card?". Just because something looks grey, it doesn't mean it's actually balanced grey.
 
arad85 said:
+1 for the "is it actually a grey card?". Just because something looks grey, it doesn't mean it's actually balanced grey.
Click to expand...

Good point. My Kodak grey card is not plain grey (smidge greenish) but then it's for exposure measurement, ie 18% reflectance, not white balance. The white side is guaranteed neutral for WB.
 
Could this have anything to do with..

Another flash, lighting the main subject, there is no mention of the main light.

Front or rear curtain sync.?

How the two background lights are triggered.

I am a total noob to all this but I did notice that when triggering off camera flashes with the on camer flash, even with a diffuser on it, the off camera flashes were all over the place, every time, so I stopped doing that and gave it no further thought.:shrug: It just didn't make any sense but...
 
arad85 said:
+1 for the "is it actually a grey card?". Just because something looks grey, it doesn't mean it's actually balanced grey.
Click to expand...

That wasn't entirely what I meant.

There's a consistent cast to the pic which goes away when you balance of a neutralish area. I'd like to see if a known neutral target was actually rendering as neutral.

But yeah, it might also not be grey ;)
 
This is really weird, I don't know what's gone wrong here but there is no doubt whatever that it's a white balance issue, pure and simple.
The bits that look white are in fact just down to overexposure, if they weren't overexposed then they would be that horrible pink colour, as is the rest of the image.

The obvious possibilities here are
1. You didn't set the white balance correctly
2. Your white balance target is blue.
I suggest you try again, but find a target that really is neutral - black is usually fairly near.
 
JonathanRyan said:
There's a consistent cast to the pic which goes away when you balance of a neutralish area. I'd like to see if a known neutral target was actually rendering as neutral.
Click to expand...
Having just downloaded and played with the pic - I agree... Even the white plimsolls have a red cast to them.

My thoughts then are that one (or more) of the following apply:

  • The grey card is not grey
  • The card is grey but the custom WB wasn't done under exactly the same lighting conditions
  • The custom WB wasn't done at all (the user may think he has set it, but might not have applied it correctly)

There is also the problem that the JPG is Adobe 1998 colourspace (should use sRGB) but even opening in Photoshop the colours are pushed to the red.
 
Colour temp of those Smartflashes is 5200k to 5500K so you could try setting an exact K value white balance in your camera set-up. Try, say, wb of 5300k and see how the background looks.

Btw, are you shooting raw or jpg?
 
Last edited:
donkeymusic said:
Hi Michael,

I am using two Lencarta Smarftflash head with background reflectors, i am focusing the flash heads so that the light span has a slight overlap in the middle of the background.
Click to expand...

Try swapping the background reflectors for umbrellas.

Seriously
 
i had this same problem with a white kitchen wall, i couldn't get it white, i bought a white paper roll and still had the same issue. I tried all wb settings but it made no difference.

I did a shoot in a hall not long after, all walls were white didn't have the issue. so my guess is my magnolia walls in my kitchen where causing the issue?

Also as Michael says background reflectors aren't best suited to this job, umbrella's are much better for a nice even spread of light. i only use background reflectors for lighting behind a head with a gradient
 
DannyDMR said:
Also as Michael says background reflectors aren't best suited to this job, umbrella's are much better for a nice even spread of light. i only use background reflectors for lighting behind a head with a gradient
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe background reflectors are fine. I just think there may be a possibility the OP isn't getting the required spread of light due to distance. The narrow band of blow out across the middle looks suspiciously like two background reflectors that may be too close to the background
 
Michael Sewell said:
Agreed. But the restriction of the light needs addressing first. Once the lighting is even, at least then it'll be a WB issue over the full image, instead of certain areas, and in theory should be easier to sort.
Click to expand...
I don't see that. As I see it, it's a white balance issue full stop - the fact that the white balance problem isn't visible in the blown areas doesn't matter, it's still there and still the cause of the problem.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I don't see that. As I see it, it's a white balance issue full stop - the fact that the white balance problem isn't visible in the blown areas doesn't matter, it's still there and still the cause of the problem.
Click to expand...
:agree: The boy/stool are the wrong colour too.... If you get the WB right in camera, changing the background to fully blown (either with umbrellas or in post) is pretty easy....
 
Garry Edwards said:
This is really weird, I don't know what's gone wrong here but there is no doubt whatever that it's a white balance issue, pure and simple.
The bits that look white are in fact just down to overexposure, if they weren't overexposed then they would be that horrible pink colour, as is the rest of the image.

The obvious possibilities here are
1. You didn't set the white balance correctly
2. Your white balance target is blue.
I suggest you try again, but find a target that really is neutral - black is usually fairly near.
Click to expand...

I was out yesterday, so have missed a lot of the suggestions, but heading over this evening to look at these suggestions.

I set the WB in camera to flash, but i will try a custom white balance..
 
arad85 said:
Having just downloaded and played with the pic - I agree... Even the white plimsolls have a red cast to them.

My thoughts then are that one (or more) of the following apply:

  • The grey card is not grey
  • The card is grey but the custom WB wasn't done under exactly the same lighting conditions
  • The custom WB wasn't done at all (the user may think he has set it, but might not have applied it correctly)

There is also the problem that the JPG is Adobe 1998 colourspace (should use sRGB) but even opening in Photoshop the colours are pushed to the red.
Click to expand...

I am going to re attempt the CWB later and will post a test shot.

I have also changed the colourspace settings in camera
 
Michael Sewell said:
Try swapping the background reflectors for umbrellas.

Seriously
Click to expand...

I have standard reflectors, but purchased the background ones after a conversation on space. i don't have umbrellas to use. would this be an option?
 
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