So you want a puppy !!!

Garry Edwards said:
Possibly, there are always exceptions to every rule.
But a lot of the problems arise when people don't understand the exercise/motivation needs of specific breeds, and either can't or won't give them what they need.
Also, a lot of the poor breeding that goes on results in dogs that don't have the typical characteristics of their breed, and these dogs are therefore less unsuitable as pets.
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I can assure you it's not "possibly".
 
boyfalldown said:
Ruth @viv1969 is absolutely right. I can think of no end of people keeping working dogs which are fantastic pets.To suggest that simply because a dog has a strong working instinct it won't make a good pet is simply wrong. And for every dog owner who has made a bad decision based on the factors you mention I can show you several who've made the right decision based on good solid research of their chosen breed
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Correct but even with all the reseacrh and experience things can still go wrong.
I remember a fried with Huskies say they are great but expensive, never leave them alone with toys,
hers knock a ball under the settee and before she got back to the room had dug through the sette to get it back:D

I still wonder how that couple the chose a newfie will feel in a few months time when there house smells and car is ruined
unless the invest in something far bigger and a ramp for it to get in and out.

What you also have to remember is that true working bred dogs bear little resemblance to the show types, working cockers look far more like
spingers and do know people that have the made the mistake of buying working stock dogs which have a much higher drive then the average
pet bred dogs, things don't always go well despite them researching the breed.

Remember when the hunting ban came in and many fluffy bunny rescue types thought all the hounds could go to rescue and be rehomed with families
much as I love hounds there is no way I would have taken one
 
viv1969 said:
Oddly then, I can think of folk (different households), who have each of those breeds, and they are fantastic pets, even the Malamutes. (OK, not Huskies)
I myself have had Border Collies (2) and they were brilliant pets. great house / garden dogs. Just had to make sure they were exercised and mentally stimulated sufficiently that's all.
I'll grant that some breeds require more input to form a bond, but I don't believe those breeds mentioned don't make goods pets.
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I can quite happily say that there are exceptions. I have a Siberian Husky and she is a wonderful pet. She is a rescue dog who has been loved by us for over six years. She was 8 months when we took her home and there has not been a day when I have regretted rescuing her.
As a youngster she showed the usual husky traits of chewing things but no more than many pups do. She didn't like being left on her own. This phase didn't last long and she has not chewed or destroyed anything since. She is brilliant with children, loves my 10 year old quadruplet grandaughters. She gets on well with other dogs too, doesn't howl or bark.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Dogs should be chosen based on their temperament and fitness for purpose, never on their appearance.
For example, if you need to work sheep then you need a Border Collie/Working Sheepdog, if you need a gundog then you need a gundog breed, etc.
Sled dogs such as Huskies, highly active dogs such as Border Collies, Springer Spaniels or any other dog with strong working instincts is very unlikely to make a good pet
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Yes but dogs with strong working (which I take to mean hunting) instincts can make great, really great pets if you know what you are getting into. I can't speak for the breeds you mention but working terriers are very rewarding
 
sphexx said:
Yes but dogs with strong working (which I take to mean hunting) instincts can make great, really great pets if you know what you are getting into. I can't speak for the breeds you mention but working terriers are very rewarding
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Agreed. If you look at the HPR breeds part of their role was always family dog. Give them what they need and they're so rewarding
 
boyfalldown said:
Agreed. If you look at the HPR breeds part of their role was always family dog. Give them what they need and they're so rewarding
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Only with the right family, they are high energy dogs and need a lot of exercise and mental stimulation, yes I speak from experience especially the
GSPs, mine could run all day and still want more, it's what they are bred for out in the field
 
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Gremlin said:
Only eith the right family, they are high energy dogs and need a lot of exercise and mental stimulation, yes I speak from experience especially the
GSPs, mine could run all day and still want more, it's what they are bred for out in the field
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Your breed experience didn't stretch to knowing a little breed history then? The HPR dogs always were bred to as a gun dog, and be companions to the owners as well. Hence all of them (some more then others) exhibiting velcro tendencies. They need both stimulation and to be part of the family. Hence they make excellent pets if you can give them what they need. If you can't give them everything they need they'll struggle. I'm not sure if that came across as patronising as you sound. But please stop assuming you are the only person who knows anything about dogs. You ain't ;) My own boy is first and foremost an excellent pet, but he does rather well working as well. This is him.


https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...ve-dog-shots-here.336888/page-53#post-7404957

I do know a fair bit about HPR dogs. Please stop speak down (y)
 
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There will always be variation in how any dog and any owner(s) react/accommodate/coexist with each other. I'm reminded of a bloke I saw many years ago in a local park. He had 5 of the fittest looking labradors I have ever seen. He was working them in searching and retrieving items and it was great to see. I'm not saying that any one with a labrador who does not work it is wrong, but some dogs of an active breed need more input than others and the what a dog might need should be properly considered. In the 1980s the BBC programme 'One Man and His Dog' was very popular and increased the interest from non-farming familes in Border Collies; sometimes with unfortunate results.

Our Fell Terrier was from a breeder of working terriers and lived with another family (I suspect he would not have made the grade as a working dog which is why he was a family dog) who did all they could for him and reluctantly, but I think with great courage, decided they could not give him what he needed before we got him when he was 4+ years old, via Terrier Rescue. In the house and garden he is a delightful dog, though fairly typically strong willed at times, and he can dig for England. He does take a few meetings with strangers before he is comfortable with them and he gets very startled by sudden noises and seems to like a quiet environment.

His main 'problem' is that his response to sights and smells when outside overtakes everything. If he smells or spots a fox, for example, there would be no stopping him. Therefore he is always walked on a lead. I put the word problem in quotes because for us it is not a problem. Yes, I would like a dog that would trot along off the lead but, at the moment at least, this is not possible and for us this is not a problem. We are fortunate enough to be able to give him lots of exercise on the lead, but I can imagine in other situations (eg with someone else or with us if we were not retired and had other demands on our time) things could be different.

Dave
 
Nope my experience has come from owning said dogs, I learn in the school of life and it wasn't a chosen breed, came to me as a rescue foster
with rather more problems then anyone expected :( since then yes I have been with a few others, and GSPs aren't the easiest of the HPRs
so don't assume I know nothing either, I;m not going to get into a who knows most argument so will walk away and leave you with your beliefs
Nice Vizla BTW
 
Tringa said:
His main 'problem' is that his response to sights and smells when outside overtakes everything. If he smells or spots a fox, for example, there would be no stopping him. Therefore he is always walked on a lead. I put the word problem in quotes because for us it is not a problem. Yes, I would like a dog that would trot along off the lead but, at the moment at least, this is not possible and for us this is not a problem. We are fortunate enough to be able to give him lots of exercise on the lead, but I can imagine in other situations (eg with someone else or with us if we were not retired and had other demands on our time) things could be different.

Dave
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I can totally relate to that having had a working JRT/PBGV cross, accidental mating of a friend, not sure how I ended up being given the only pup
despite there being loads of interest, but as with yours, once instinct took over he went totally deaf to commands, but if you watched you could see when
this was about to happen and if quick enough break it and get control back
 
boyfalldown said:
Your breed experience didn't stretch to knowing a little breed history then? The HPR dogs always were bred to as a gun dog, and be companions to the owners as well. Hence all of them (some more then others) exhibiting velcro tendencies. They need both stimulation and to be part of the family. Hence they make excellent pets if you can give them what they need. If you can't give them everything they need they'll struggle. I'm not sure if that came across as patronising as you sound. But please stop assuming you are the only person who knows anything about dogs. You ain't ;) My own boy is first and foremost an excellent pet, but he does rather well working as well. This is him.


https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...ve-dog-shots-here.336888/page-53#post-7404957

I do know a fair bit about HPR dogs. Please stop speak down (y)
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Hugh, have I met that boy?
 
Tringa said:
There will always be variation in how any dog and any owner(s) react/accommodate/coexist with each other. I'm reminded of a bloke I saw many years ago in a local park. He had 5 of the fittest looking labradors I have ever seen. He was working them in searching and retrieving items and it was great to see. I'm not saying that any one with a labrador who does not work it is wrong, but some dogs of an active breed need more input than others and the what a dog might need should be properly considered. In the 1980s the BBC programme 'One Man and His Dog' was very popular and increased the interest from non-farming familes in Border Collies; sometimes with unfortunate results.

Our Fell Terrier was from a breeder of working terriers and lived with another family (I suspect he would not have made the grade as a working dog which is why he was a family dog) who did all they could for him and reluctantly, but I think with great courage, decided they could not give him what he needed before we got him when he was 4+ years old, via Terrier Rescue. In the house and garden he is a delightful dog, though fairly typically strong willed at times, and he can dig for England. He does take a few meetings with strangers before he is comfortable with them and he gets very startled by sudden noises and seems to like a quiet environment.

His main 'problem' is that his response to sights and smells when outside overtakes everything. If he smells or spots a fox, for example, there would be no stopping him. Therefore he is always walked on a lead. I put the word problem in quotes because for us it is not a problem. Yes, I would like a dog that would trot along off the lead but, at the moment at least, this is not possible and for us this is not a problem. We are fortunate enough to be able to give him lots of exercise on the lead, but I can imagine in other situations (eg with someone else or with us if we were not retired and had other demands on our time) things could be different.

Dave
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This is the point that I'm trying to make, only to be told that I don't know what I'm talking about:( - my experience, based on a lifetime of training dogs, is that most of the public choose a dog based on nothing more than appearance/size/"status symbol"/cost, and totally disgregard temperament, and suitability for their own lifestyle.
Of course there are exceptions to my own experience that dogs with strong working instinct should only be aquired if they will be able to use that instinct, but generally it does hold true. The exceptions are likely to arise when either the owner has a lot more nouse than usual (common sense is extremely uncommon) or when the dog doesn't have the strong working instinct that the breed is supposed to have.
This working sheepdog, Win, is a case in point.(tried to upload photo, got an error message again) She is an adored pet, but primarily she works sheep (and cattle) and if she could, she would run for hours, working at top speed. Of course, sheep don't need to be moved around all day every day, most of the rest of the time she runs around behind whichever tractor he happens to be driving, again for hours at a time. And when there's no tractor work to be done he spends an enormous amount of time and effort throwing a ball for her. After an hour or so she's happy, but after a few minutes rest she's raring to go again.
My point is that she has a very happy life, but if she didn't have work to do then she would have a very miserable life if she was with an average family that didn't understand that working dogs need to work and that dogs bred for working sheep on hill farms need hours of excercise every day.
Of course, she may settle down a bit when she gets older, she's only 13...
 
boyfalldown said:
Agreed. If you look at the HPR breeds part of their role was always family dog. Give them what they need and they're so rewarding
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Absolutely, I used to have to run the hell outta my GSP for an hour before she's settle down to work with the hawks,
but at home, she was as good as gold, never damaged anything apart from the odd pot hole in the grass in her early days.
Front paws to dig, spin on back legs, she's be down a foot in no time, trouble is, I didn't have any trees to plant :( I did think about hiring her out to the local forestry commission,
but she quit before I got any contracts signed :D


boyfalldown said:
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...ve-dog-shots-here.336888/page-53#post-7404957
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Ah yes I recognise Henry, handsome chap :thumbs:
 
Thanks Grem, we will work in trying to get our dog to respond when the 'red mist' descends. If we manage it then we will be happy. If not, then we will be a bit disappointed (in us, not the dog) but that is how it will be and we will work with it.

With you on that, Gary. There will be times, possibly many, when a dog from a working background integrates/settles/copes in a non-working environment.

I suppose the question is, when it does not work, who carries the burden of responsibility?

Dave

BTW This is the stoppy, delightful, little b****r we have -

Dino_zpsmw8w8yzs.jpg
 
Tringa said:
Thanks Grem, we will work in trying to get our dog to respond when the 'red mist' descends. If we manage it then we will be happy. If not, then we will be a bit disappointed (in us, not the dog) but that is how it will be and we will work with it.

With you on that, Gary. There will be times, possibly many, when a dog from a working background integrates/settles/copes in a non-working environment.

I suppose the question is, when it does not work, who carries the burden of responsibility?

Dave

BTW This is the stoppy, delightful, little b****r we have -

Dino_zpsmw8w8yzs.jpg
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Oh he looks like he has proper attitude! :D
 
Tringa said:
decided they could not give him what he needed before we got him when he was 4+ years old,
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The problem is, you don't really know what went before or how ingrained his behaviour actually is.
Some breeds are more intelligent than others, for example I got a 3+ year old GSD from a rescue place that had been very badly miss treated and starved.
I don't think that she had much, if any basic training either, she'd pull on the lead, crap in the house ( but usually eat ( most of) it, part of the survival instinct, food and or clearing up to stop another beating)
It didn't take her that long to realise that she was onto a good thing, very soon she'd walk with a loose lead, ask to "go outside"
in fact she became perfectly mannered, very quickly, which was important as she finally turned out with gentle nourishment and exercise to be the biggest GSD that I had ever seen, then or since!

I don't really believe in this wholly, but have a read you may find some useful tips.
http://www.simplypsychology.org/operant-conditioning.html

Or the dog version, personally I prefer to use vocal commands but a lot of people do swear by it.
http://www.wikihow.com/Clicker-Train-Your-Dog
 
High energy dogs can make great pets as long as you give them a job to do,, this does not necessarily have to be the job they were bred for, I own 7 working springer spaniels , they work in the winter and do Flyball in the summer, but first and foremost they are our pets, they live in the house, sleep on the settee, and cuddle up with us. I have also been actively involved with springer rescue for over 10 years , over that time, I have helped to home 100s to homes that understand what the breed needs, I have also seen some appalling examples that have been sold by Dogs r us, and have taken some in that should never have been sold to the owners (75 year old lady with working springer spaniel puppy that came to us at a year after he'd pulled her over an broken her arm springs to mind ) before owning any dog, be it rescue or puppy people should do their research, and should be interrogated owning a dog is a privilege not a right, and should not be easy, puppy farms and pet shops exist because people want things now, whether that's the right thing to do for the animal or not
 
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lizzy23 said:
High energy dogs can make great pets as long as you give them a job to do,, this does not necessarily have to be the job they were bred for, I own 7 working springer spaniels , they work in the winter and do Flyball in the summer, but first and foremost they are our pets, they live in the house, sleep on the settee, and cuddle up with us.
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I
Likewise I know a number of people now who are using HPR breeds as agility dogs with great success
 
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Talk about working dogs and instinct, my husky does have some of the husky traits such as a strong prey instinct, and can be a very adept escape artist. She doesn't however have the instinct to pull a sledge which you would think she may have. Much to my sons amusement I purchased a dog scooter, specially designed for the purpose of allowing the dog to be hitched up at the front and to run ahead, the idea that I would scoot while she pulled. Epic fail First off she didn't like the idea of a harness of any sort and I tried various types. As soon as the harness was put on and attached to the scooter she sat down and would not under any circumstances run ahead. She preferred me to do all the work!

When we were fortunate enough to have a heavy snowfall I tried to get her to pull the grandkids on their sledge, I ran with her pulling the sledge hoping she would get the message....no way. I did all the work and she just sat down when I left it to her to pull looking at me as if to say "your having a laugh"

So much for working dogs
 
Maggie52 said:
I purchased a dog scooter, specially designed for the purpose of allowing the dog to be hitched up at the front and to run ahead,
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And that's where you went wrong, the name should give it away, dog scooter, its for the dog to ride on, not you :D
 
Dogs are weird .

Our spotty one - a carriage dog after all - though he'd never run with them until we tried it one day, was a 'natural'

Normally you would have the dog off the lead - but as he didn't know his name we couldn't. My carriage driving instructor said to keep him on a long lead - so with hubby on the back we set off with the pair of ponies in front - me driving them , and my instructor beside me , dog attached by long flexi-lead.

The first 100 yards or so hubby said we clearly had a puzzled dog - he wandered around a bit - hung back and then ran to catch up - wandered off to the side and then came back in - then he did it all himself - tucked himself immediately behind the back axle of the carriage as if he'd done it all his 5 years of life. The lead was retracted automatically and dog stayed in the correct place for the next 90 mins !! He loved it - I really thought he was going to do some damage to his tail :D :D

After that - he had 90-120 mins of fun every week till he was too old
 
Cobra said:
The problem is, you don't really know what went before or how ingrained his behaviour actually is.
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Very true. We would love to know about our dog's very early life. Although he is startled by many loud and/or sudden sounds, one sound he really does not like is a vehicle approaching from behind. Cars etc from the front - no problem, but if they come from behind he will sit down and look worried until they have passed. He also appears not to have had much in the way of socialisation with other dogs but we are working on lots of positive reinforcement.

Dave
 
Garry Edwards said:
This is the point that I'm trying to make, only to be told that I don't know what I'm talking about:( - my experience, based on a lifetime of training dogs, is that most of the public choose a dog based on nothing more than appearance/size/"status symbol"/cost, and totally disgregard temperament, and suitability for their own lifestyle.
Of course there are exceptions to my own experience that dogs with strong working instinct should only be aquired if they will be able to use that instinct, but generally it does hold true. The exceptions are likely to arise when either the owner has a lot more nouse than usual (common sense is extremely uncommon) or when the dog doesn't have the strong working instinct that the breed is supposed to have.
This working sheepdog, Win, is a case in point.(tried to upload photo, got an error message again) She is an adored pet, but primarily she works sheep (and cattle) and if she could, she would run for hours, working at top speed. Of course, sheep don't need to be moved around all day every day, most of the rest of the time she runs around behind whichever tractor he happens to be driving, again for hours at a time. And when there's no tractor work to be done he spends an enormous amount of time and effort throwing a ball for her. After an hour or so she's happy, but after a few minutes rest she's raring to go again.
My point is that she has a very happy life, but if she didn't have work to do then she would have a very miserable life if she was with an average family that didn't understand that working dogs need to work and that dogs bred for working sheep on hill farms need hours of excercise every day.
Of course, she may settle down a bit when she gets older, she's only 13...
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Exactly my experience too.
I was brought up in Wales, on a farm, with working sheepdogs. All were Border Collies.
The one I have now, has been trained in obedience, agility, and although I don't live on a farm, he works well with geese and sheep when we visit farmer friends.
He is everything any-one could want of a pet dog.
The downside is he can run all day long, and still want more !
Not a real downside though, as I take him with me for at least a 20 mile bike ride daily, with him trotting alongside, and he gets a 5 mile walk every night.
And he'll chase and retrieve a ball all day long.
So my experiences of the breed are from both sides, and even if they are not doing what they are "meant" to be doing, they can still be kept as pets.
 
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