So Tottenham burns!

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cowasaki said:
The police have a large presence already with shields, training and other equipment.
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They also appear to have cunningly used undercover officers to infiltrate the rioters....

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:D
 
what we need tonight is a good storm with plenty of cold and unpleasant rain and winds -that will persuade a lot of these little scrotes that they are better off inside with a doob and their stolen xbox,
 
I see Handsworth went up in the night and they set fire to a police station. I'd have put money on that happening. Handsworth is an intimidating place to walk in daylight - at night it's downright scary.
 
CT said:
Guys - stop feeding the troll. Laudrup is the worst sort of whinging stirrer - critical of everyone and everything, but as usual his type have no answers -only brickbats. We don't know anything about him and he refuses to tell us.

Ignore him. ;)
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I had been trying to



.
 
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The young man shot in Croydon last night has died, a pointless death. A young lad in Liverpool posted on Facebook to clean up his town as he was disgusted with what happened last night. Today 300 honest, good people turned out to healp clean up. Power to those people!
 
DemiLion said:
Maybe once you've actually stood in the front line, .
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Pretty sure I saw you on a clip for bbc news 24 last night?

... south London I think, you'd just been rushed by the police taking some ground, they where about to grab you (and a mate?) as everyone else had gone, ...when you confidently flashed your press pass and got an ok.

It looked well cool mate. :D
 
DemiLion said:
Right matey - you've thrown some arguments out and had some valid responses back, but from most of what I've seen of your opinions you are living with your head up a part of your anatomy that is rather smelly.

The Stop and Search claim for last night's actions is completely bogus to name one single thing. The Hackney kick off was planned well in advance, as the local shops (especially the Jewellers) was being scoped out as early as 10:00 yesterday morning, including the strength of the shutters and the quality of the locks. The S&S was an excuse - nothing more.

I'm going to make you an offer:

I'll be out tonight, probably from 18:00 onwards depending on what happens, and you are more than welcome to join me to find out what is really going on. Please feel free to bring your nice (no doubt shiny) Leica with you, to capture all the action.

Maybe once you've actually stood in the front line, rather than denting your armchair with your overly ample posterior, you will be able to take onboard the reality of the current situation.
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What would I glean from playing cat and mouse with gangs of teenagers wanting to steal mobile phones and watches? We already know the rioters should be stopped or deterred with more police on the streets.

I can't see how the patina of my camera has any bearing on this either, but I'll assume it's another ad hominem attack.
 
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Forbiddenbiker said:
Pretty sure I saw you on a clip for bbc news 24 last night?

... south London I think, you'd just been rushed by the police taking some ground, they where about to grab you (and a mate?) as everyone else had gone, ...when you confidently flashed your press pass and got an ok.

It looked well cool mate. :D
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Yarp that was me. No UKPC as yet though, so purely gift of the gab. The other bloke is Ex RSigs.

TBH it wasn't a case of standing ground or anything like that - I was just trying to get a decent shot of them charging through the smoke! :D
 
Bloody hell. This Laudrup fella is giving us wet bearded lefties a bad name! Political correctness IS a good thing BUT we all have a tipping point. The actions of these criminals who DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO MARK DUGGAN IS are deplorable and you cannot defend them. AT ALL. ONE LITTLE BIT.

Instead of criticising the police you need to be supporting them. I went down this morning to do my bit to help clean up and the hundreds of honest and decent people that did were shaking each and every police officer's hand. They need to be allowed to do their job without fear of people like you (and me) staging a backlash against them and if they have to be heavy handed against the bellends then so be it. These people have zero respect for other people's safety so why should the police have respect for theirs?

And before you go off on one against me you should know this. I have been involved in numerous marches and protests against the current government, the police, etc but last night as a good friend of mine was cowering in a Tesco store in London and another very close friend of mine was hiding in her basement with her three young girls here in Liverpool I reached my own personal tipping point. Swift and harsh action is needed from the authorities and to hell with the consequences.

I remain a wet, bearded, Guardian reading lefty though :D
 
I've got shopping to do, but Cameron is back and talking the talk - there's a suggestion rubber bullets might be used if necessary this evening. The bottom line is this country needs to get it's backbone back and it needs to come from the top.
 
norters said:
Bloody hell. This Laudrup fella is giving us wet bearded lefties a bad name! Political correctness IS a good thing BUT we all have a tipping point. The actions of these criminals who DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO MARK DUGGAN IS are deplorable and you cannot defend them. AT ALL. ONE LITTLE BIT.

Instead of criticising the police you need to be supporting them. I went down this morning to do my bit to help clean up and the hundreds of honest and decent people that did were shaking each and every police officer's hand. They need to be allowed to do their job without fear of people like you (and me) staging a backlash against them and if they have to be heavy handed against the bellends then so be it. These people have zero respect for other people's safety so why should the police have respect for theirs?

And before you go off on one against me you should know this. I have been involved in numerous marches and protests against the current government, the police, etc but last night as a good friend of mine was cowering in a Tesco store in London and another very close friend of mine was hiding in her basement with her three young girls here in Liverpool I reached my own personal tipping point. Swift and harsh action is needed from the authorities and to hell with the consequences.

I remain a wet, bearded, Guardian reading lefty though :D
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Huh - and I thought you were an ok bloke:lol:
 
Laudrup said:
What would I glean from playing cat and mouse with gangs of teenagers wanting to steal mobile phones and watches? We already know the rioters should be stopped or deterred with more police on the streets.

I can't see how the patina of my camera has any bearing on this either, but I'll assume it's another ad hominem attack.
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You can assume whatever you like, but I'm not surprised at your reluctance to get on to the ground that you seem to have so many opinions about.

As for what you'd learn...

Why it's happening
Who is doing it
What their motivation is
What potential solutions there are
etc etc etc

If you want to be a political commentator then you need to understand all aspects of a situation, not just what you've read in your chosen media outlet. Until you actually have real hard experience then you are just regurgitating hot air and fabricating directed opinions - and we all know what everyone possesses apart from opinions.

As I surmised you appear to be an armchair theorist with nothing to back up your analysis. You have had an offer to actually experience what is going wrong with the country and yet you aren't interested in the slightest; the way that you turned it down is glib to say the least.

As far as I'm concerned any comment that you make on this matter is now pure frippery.
 
dod said:
This would be the same Police you distrust and disrespect would it? And don't reply with "where did I say that" because your opinion is blatantly obvious.

I'm really quite disappointed with your solution here, it's pretty illogical given your views, but let's say we do get more of them onto the streets. What do we allow them to do? These thugs are acting with apparent impunity remember.

I don't think we should shoot them either but where do you draw the line? Water cannon? Plastic bullets? A stiff talking to?

Given that this only loosely has anything to do with the shooting of Duggan (?) how much tolerance do you think should be extended to these opportunistic criminals?
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Why is it not trusting politicians is de rigueur, but mention the police in the same breath, and the Daily Mail brigade grabs the torches and pitchforks? The only reasoning I keep hearing is 'I know Tom, Dick and Harry and they are cops and great guys!'
 
Slaphead said:
Well, Water cannons, tear gas, and plastic bullets are used here. I must say it seems pretty damned effective. Generally any unrest is mopped up in a couple of hours. This last 1st of May the police arrested over 400 rioters in Zürich, and they were still home in time for tea.
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Yep... can't agree more :bat:
 
Laudrup said:
What would I glean from playing cat and mouse with gangs of teenagers wanting to steal mobile phones and watches? .
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well for a start you'd demonstrate that you actually have some cojones rather than being one of those guys who's only brave behind a keyboard in the safety of your armchair, or when its some elses safety at risk

and secondly you'd find out what the police that you are so keen to villify have to put up with
 
'Big Jim' just been interviewed on Sky, told reporters that he tried to save his second barbers shop when he was confronted by 10 black youths. The reporter asked if he wasn't just stereotyping... he said actually I was the only only white person there.

Also Clinton Brown interviewed in Bristol. Jamacian guy involved in the St Pauls riots years ago served 11 years in prison. Very passionate telling the youths to give it up, stop destroying peoples lives. Said if he's concentrated on his family his daughter may have been alive today.

All credit to these two guys for stuffing political correctness, speaking up and being honest.
 
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Forbiddenbiker said:
Ok me thinks my point was a little to radical for yous all... no prob. ;)
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LOL. Good thinking - but off the beam Adam. The original protest was by people aggrieved about the shooting of Duggan. It's now escalated to the point where it's nothing to do with that - in fact it was never really anything to do with that apart from a handful of people. It's just nationwide opportunist looting and madness by indolent youth - we need to stop looking for excuses for them.
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Ok me thinks my point was a little to radical for yous all... no prob. ;)
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Nope, not radical, but possibly reading more into the situation than actually exists.

There have been organised flash points, but an awful lot of last night was pure spin off. Sunday saw coordinated & targeted looting gangs (as I mentioned a few pages ago), leaving Saturday's initial backlash riot aside, and Hackney to some extent was the same - civil disorder prompted to mask criminal activity. However the massed spread of what was effectively anarchy was a different matter entirely and seemed to be local gangs making the most of a situation to have some fun & 'nick stuff'. Remember that it's taken them 3 days to build up the nerve to trash their own turfs [sic] and I suspect that a lot of it was motivated by knowing the the Met would be overwhelmed for a third night on the trot.

There is a huge problem, but the solution lies after peace has been restored and what it will be I have no idea!
 
DemiLion said:
As I surmised you appear to be an armchair theorist with nothing to back up your analysis. You have had an offer to actually experience what is going wrong with the country and yet you aren't interested in the slightest; .
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to be fair mark, no one can blame him for being too scared to go out into a riot - most of us probably wouldnt choose to do so (the times I have its been from covering protests that turned violent without warning), and I have utmost respect for guys like you that do.

on that could I ask do the papers pay a corespondingly high sum for shots taken in dangerous situations (i've only ever sold shots to locals who dont seem to, but then i've never been in as much danger as you were yesterday), or do they just pay as usual, making your motivation more of the 'its my job to do this' vein ?
 
norters said:
Bloody hell. This Laudrup fella is giving us wet bearded lefties a bad name! Political correctness IS a good thing BUT we all have a tipping point. The actions of these criminals who DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO MARK DUGGAN IS are deplorable and you cannot defend them. AT ALL. ONE LITTLE BIT.

Instead of criticising the police you need to be supporting them. I went down this morning to do my bit to help clean up and the hundreds of honest and decent people that did were shaking each and every police officer's hand. They need to be allowed to do their job without fear of people like you (and me) staging a backlash against them and if they have to be heavy handed against the bellends then so be it. These people have zero respect for other people's safety so why should the police have respect for theirs?

And before you go off on one against me you should know this. I have been involved in numerous marches and protests against the current government, the police, etc but last night as a good friend of mine was cowering in a Tesco store in London and another very close friend of mine was hiding in her basement with her three young girls here in Liverpool I reached my own personal tipping point. Swift and harsh action is needed from the authorities and to hell with the consequences.

I remain a wet, bearded, Guardian reading lefty though :D
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So your own opinion changed to wanting savage justice meted out when your own friends were under threat? After all of the blood, teeth and hair are swept up you are worse off than when you started.
 
Surely at this point the majority of public opinion is with the police and the innocents who have been robbed and injured. Knowing that, I would hope the politicians will now be worrying less about being knocked off their perches and will focus more on supporting the police and putting a swift end to this. Even if it is a bit late. It seems incredible that several nights of violence have occurred without the authorities allowing the police to do what is necessary to stop it - presumably due to fear of reprisals in the media and criminals who bleat if they're so much as touched during the arrest process. I hope that stage has now passed. Much of the world must be laughing at us.

What do the rest of you think will happen tonight? Is this going to spread to more cities or towns before something is finally done?
 
You can bleat on about savage justice all you want kiddo. It's not like I am calling for the death penalty here. Violence and criminality seem to be the only language these oiks understand so I reckon that's what they need in return. If you actually looked up from your screen once in a while then maybe you would understand.

You need to get a grip little one. There is a very high possibility that the streets where I live will be targeted this evening. If that is the case I will be outside cracking the ****ing skulls of any little **** that comes near my house. If you want to sit high up there and say you would not do the same then you are a liar.

There is also the distinct possibility that you are a horrible little internet troll that just likes to stir up ****.
 
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Laudrup said:
Why is it not trusting politicians is de rigueur, but mention the police in the same breath, and the Daily Mail brigade grabs the torches and pitchforks? The only reasoning I keep hearing is 'I know Tom, Dick and Harry and they are cops and great guys!'
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Wait a minute.

I'm not the one who raised trust as an issue here but I am asking why you would advocate using an organisation you don't trust to resolve the current issues? Don't keep answering questions with a question to try to deflect the issue.
 
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