So Tottenham burns!

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My colleague's family live in Tottenham, two uncles and a cousin.

His cousin had a flat above Carpet Right which I believe was the old building on a corner that's been one of the most shown buildings in the road since Saturday night. The guy has lost EVERYTHING!!! All he and his wife left their flat with was the clothes on their back and for some inexplicable reason he picked up their passports too. OK, he's got insurance but was recently married and all the wedding photos are gone!

The guy's best friend and neighbour had no insurance so he really has lost everything.

They found another neighbour wandering around the streets in her PJs, she was in shock and had nowhere to go so she is now staying with this guy at a relative's house.

That's just a small insight into 3 of the hundreds of lives affected by the attrocities that have taken place.

Anyone still care to argue that water cannons, CS gas and rubber bullets are OTT??

On a side note, his uncles are fine (relatively speaking) and were in the pub Sunday lunctime when one of these hoodrats came in, bold as brass carrying a smoke damaged TV box :thinking: apparently he was asked if he was taking the Michael and left in a hurry ;)
 
Russ77 said:
...his uncles are fine (relatively speaking) and were in the pub Sunday lunctime when one of these hoodrats came in, bold as brass carrying a smoke damaged TV box...
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Un ****ing believable...
 
onona said:
Funny you should mention the army, because I think that's precisely what these undisciplined youths need - these kids should be sent to the army instead of prison, so they can learn some discipline and respect, including self-respect.
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And I can tell you that doesn't always work.

My dad was in the Royal Marines during the 2nd WW and they had a BIG Scottish lad who did not want to be there and when he was told to do something he just told them to eff off, so they put him in the glasshouse.

After a few months they went to see him and said to him "Why dont you play the game and do yourself a favour" and his response was "What have you been doing, marching, excercises, patrolling the perimeter fences and guard duty in the ******ing rain and cold, while I have been in here in the warm, 3 meals a day and just laying on me bunk reading the papers"

After a few months they discharged him.
 
onona said:
Funny you should mention the army, because I think that's precisely what these undisciplined youths need - these kids should be sent to the army instead of prison, so they can learn some discipline and respect, including self-respect.
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Years ago if yobbos appeared before the court and they were going to join the armed forces - they got a slap nn the wrist and walked away. It hasn't worked for years though - the army don't want 'em, especially with all the cutbacks - they can afford to be a bit more choosey about who they take.

Now if we were talking about a return to Borstal Training run on military lines.....
 
CT said:
Now if we were talking about a return to Borstal Training run on military lines.....
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If you're referring to the "short, sharp shock" tactics tried under the Thatcher government , that won't happen again, as they would no doubt fall foul of the EU Human Rights legislation if implemented today....
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If you're referring to the "short, sharp shock" tactics tried under the Thatcher government , that won't happen again, as they would no doubt fall foul of the EU Human Rights legislation if implemented today....
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I know, but sooner or later surely to god someone has to realise the mess all this crap is getting us into. I'm the first to admit I'm somewhere to the right of Vlad The Impaler, but these ****ers are somewhere left of Andy Pandy! :shrug:
 
Going off on a slight tangent for a minute, I thought this quote from a Parliamentary briefing paper called "Young offenders: what next?" was quite amusing...

Whether poverty is an underlying cause of crime is contested. Such an assertion has often been made, but a longitudinal study in south London found that although the peak age of offending was 17-18.

The study found that those who had been convicted tended to come from low-income families at the age of 8, and to have low incomes themselves at the age of 32; at 18 they tended to be better-off than their contemporaries.
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And they say crime doesn't pay :lol:
 
Marcel said:
They're scum plain and simple.
No respect for other people, society or other people's property.

And that's where this we have gone wrong. There is a distinct lack of respect within society. There's too much emphasis on the "me me me" and "to hell how my actions affect anyone else".

If respect and thought for others was taught and emphasised enough then you wouldn't have situations like this.

I know my kids will never be found slashing police car tyres or setting fire to shops.
Why? Because they have respect for other people, and they care about how they affect other people. Simple as.

And if they were ever caught in a position where they were shot by a police officer, then yes I would naturally want answers as to what exactly happened...
But first and foremost I would want to know what the hell they were doing to be caught in that situation in the first place. It's not as if the police take pot shots at random passers by.
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Couldn't agree more!
 
We all know what the problem is - Marcel covered it pretty well earlier on. I've raised two lads and given them a sense of values and they know what's right and wrong. They've never been in any trouble whatsoever with the law.

Dragged -up kids with no discipline and no sense of values begat their own kids and so it goes on - it's anyone's fault but theirs!
 
Absolutely sick of the display of police bashing on here. If these scumbags had stayed indoors the police wouldn't have been there and a poor little 16yo wouldn't have had a battering. If that gangster hadn't had a handgun he would still be alive.

For goodness sake people, police don't just randomly stop taxis and shoot the occupants. You should be thanking these guys who put themselves in the front line time and time again for taking another dangerous ******* off the streets.


ding76uk said:
Do you honestly think that would work?
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As much as it upsets me to say so, no I don't think it would. Mainly because of all the left wing liberal lentil munching, anarchist, tree hugging, soap dodging, crystal waving, bongo bashing, **** stirring ******s out there.

And it's out fault. We've let them believe they don't have to take responsibility for anything and it's okay not to be accountable.

What we should be doing is building a few more prisons and every time someone gets involved in this wanton violence let the army go in and pick them up. Let's do as they want and abandon the law of the land for a few hours. Crack a few skulls and dump them in prison for three months, no trial, no time off, no appeal.
 
Do not get me started.. I was spitting bullets listening to Sky News last night.:bang:

Two youth workers in inner London said funding had been cut to keep them occupied and its a cry for help..... RUBBISH!

What about post WWII (not that I was live then:D) but peops didn't go looting & burning... what about the raw deal pensioners are getting sliding into an old age of poverty they don't loot & burn!!

Get each one of those kids on their own, sign them up for national service and kick their butts into action. No disipline or respect!

As for the police, sometimes they do get it wrong, but my fiends son-in-law was in his police riot gear on the streets and his family were petrified for him seeing the amount of needless violence on the tv.
 
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dod said:
As much as it upsets me to say so, no I don't think it would. Mainly because of all the left wing liberal lentil munching, anarchist, tree hugging, soap dodging, crystal waving, bongo bashing, **** stirring ******s out there..
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I literally did :lol: at that, I also agree on the police bashing front that needs to be stopped as almost all of them do a great job :thumbs:
 
dod said:
A
What we should be doing is building a few more prisons and every time someone gets involved in this wanton violence let the army go in and pick them up.
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That's the way it used to be in Great Britain, first sign of a demonstration and the tanks went in...

_45426717_riotact466.jpg


The failure of the Police to control the riot prompted the Coalition Government under David Lloyd George to react, after Scottish Secretary Robert Munro described the riot as a 'Bolshevist uprising'. 10,000 troops armed with machine guns, tanks and a howitzer arrived on the Friday night and Saturday to occupy Glasgow's streets. A 4.5 inch Howitzer was positioned at the City Chambers, the cattle market was transformed into a tank depot, Lewis Guns were posted on the top of the North British Hotel and the General Post Office, armed troops stood sentry outside power stations, docks and patrolled the streets. They were deployed for a week in order to deter any more gatherings.
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dod said:
Absolutely sick of the display of police bashing on here. If these scumbags had stayed indoors the police wouldn't have been there and a poor little 16yo wouldn't have had a battering. If that gangster hadn't had a handgun he would still be alive.
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I don't think that there has really been any police bashing here - well, perhaps one 'liberal' who I'm guessing has very little real experience of life.

I think that pretty much everyone else agrees that the best way of avoiding being shot by the police is to be a law abiding citizen, and although I'm the first to criticise the police when they are dishonest, incompetent or go around shooting innocent people, this whole thing seems to have started with a criminal in illegal possession of a firearm, and the police doing exactly what they had to do and what we, the public, require them to do.

From memory, 25 years or so ago, when a grossly overweight woman died of a heart attack or similar when her criminal son was arrested, the police were accused of murdering her and the Broadwater Farm Riots (or uprising for lefties) resulted.

Back in those days, it was rumour and misinformation that fed the criminal masses (and the innocent idiots) with the nonsense they wanted to hear, now it's twits on Twitter and an irresponsible journalist, but the result is the same - the poor oppressed minorities take to the streets to loot, burn and attack. Photo Plod said that all of the people arrested already had criminal convictions - nothing new there then, because it's always the low life who crawl out of their gutter to take advantage in this type of situation, they always ride on the back of genuine, peaceful demos and turn them to their own advantage.

How to deal with it? Dunno. Water canon, even if they could legally be used in GB, would no doubt take a very long time to deploy.
So-called rubber bullets are in fact made of plastic, they can and have killed people at close range.
Even if they could be deployed quickly, I don't think that the army is any kind of answer, and I'm not sure it's even legal for the army to be used against our own citizens. And anyway, unless they were allowed to use live ammo, what could they do that the police can't?
 
The failure of the Police to control the riot prompted the Coalition Government under David Lloyd George to react, after Scottish Secretary Robert Munro described the riot as a 'Bolshevist uprising'. 10,000 troops armed with machine guns, tanks and a howitzer arrived on the Friday night and Saturday to occupy Glasgow's streets. A 4.5 inch Howitzer was positioned at the City Chambers, the cattle market was transformed into a tank depot, Lewis Guns were posted on the top of the North British Hotel and the General Post Office, armed troops stood sentry outside power stations, docks and patrolled the streets. They were deployed for a week in order to deter any more gatherings.


And thats how the love fest known as the 'Glasgow kiss' was born....
 
Garry Edwards said:
I don't think that there has really been any police bashing here - well, perhaps one 'liberal' who I'm guessing has very little real experience of life.
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You're probably right Garry, just happened to be the first post I read. :|
 
Garry Edwards said:
I don't think that there has really been any police bashing here - well, perhaps one 'liberal' who I'm guessing has very little real experience of life.
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You're not the first person to throw the word liberal into the conversation here in a demeaning way - you know, I expect that kind of black and white thinking from Americans (I lived in America for a while some years back and got thoroughly tired of this habit of theirs) but not from Brits. Just because someone is of a more liberal mindset, that doesn't make them some bleeding heart criminal sympathiser. Furthermore, just because you don't agree with their views, that doesn't mean they have no experience of real life - they simply have a different opinion on things.

Honestly, belitting people for having different views on various aspects of life is pretty poor behaviour, and is thoroughly unconstructive - in fact, it's actually damaging to discussion as a whole. By all means, disagree, but you can do so without belittling that person.
 
Too many rumours on both sides of the fence to fathom any kind of accurate record of events, but how I see it....

Petty thieves don't get pursued by undercover police armed with automatics, this guy was in deep....his own actions created the situation surrounding him.

The press and web sources are a disgrace for fuelling the fire, the same way they did with our boys in Iraq/Afgan.
 
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Just a quick post before I head out again...


Apart from a slight possibility at Tottenham, the kick offs last night had absolutely nothing to do with politics, cries from the heart or the disaffected youth. Period.

They were orchestrated, organised gangs who were planning massed looting; complete with co-ordinated transport and in some cases fences onsite.The rest of the stuff was just distraction and about having 'fun'.

Right, playtime.... :D
 
Laudrup said:
Aren't the police something like 7 times more likely to stop and search you for being black? I can see how that could get tiresome very quickly if you happened to live there. Maybe it is the police who should leave race out of it?

This reaction seems to stem from much more than that man being shot dead.
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So if a group of 'Black' guys break into a shop and loot it then WTF do you want the Police to do arrest all white males....OI!......Removed. There's no need for that.

You have made your point, you hate the Police.
 
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Treesie said:
What about post WWII (not that I was live then:D) but peops didn't go looting & burning... what about the raw deal pensioners are getting sliding into an old age of poverty they don't loot & burn!!
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Actually there was a rise in crime figures during world war 2 and the most common was petty theft. Also the rise of the"Spiv" committed crimes. Also there was a large increase in Juvenile delinquency during both periods of war.
 
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:lol:

Yet another 'community spokesman' on Sky rolling news playing the 'racist' card.

Now, apparently, it's the 'white mans olympics'. Where will this garbage end.

It's someone else's fault - even the news anchor is becoming exasperated at this guys bull:cuckoo:
 
AFC said:
So if a group of 'Black' guys break into a shop and loot it then WTF do you want the Police to do arrest all white males....take a fu***ng day off.

You have made your point, you hate the Police.
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That isn't the argument though, obviously any criminal engaged in a criminal act will be arrested regardless of skin pigmentation.

This a problem:

Analysis by the London School of Economics and the Open Society Justice Initiative found that there are 41.6 Section 60 searches for every 1,000 black people, compared with 1.6 for every 1,000 white people – making black people 26.6 times more likely to be stopped and searched. Asians were 6.3 times more likely to be stopped than whites, according to the analysis of Ministry of Justice figures for 2008-09.
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As for the rest of the posts about 'shooting them all' they are ridiculous, the army being brought in, again draconian thinking and something you'd find in Syria or the ever popular simplistic and poorly thought out 'build more prisons!'. Build them with what? Tens of millions we don't have and fill them with petty criminals who will cost £40k+ a year to keep locked up?
 
neil_g said:
seriously though i hope the police identify every person on that video and do them all for theft.
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Rest assured there'll be a huge team of detectives drafted in to arrest as many of the offenders as possible and they won't leave it until they can't possibly take it any further, That's what happened after the Handsworth Riots - I was there for over 3 months. You can't afford to let this go it's just total anarchy.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I don't think that there has really been any police bashing here - well, perhaps one 'liberal' who I'm guessing has very little real experience of life.

I think that pretty much everyone else agrees that the best way of avoiding being shot by the police is to be a law abiding citizen, and although I'm the first to criticise the police when they are dishonest, incompetent or go around shooting innocent people, this whole thing seems to have started with a criminal in illegal possession of a firearm, and the police doing exactly what they had to do and what we, the public, require them to do.

From memory, 25 years or so ago, when a grossly overweight woman died of a heart attack or similar when her criminal son was arrested, the police were accused of murdering her and the Broadwater Farm Riots (or uprising for lefties) resulted.

Back in those days, it was rumour and misinformation that fed the criminal masses (and the innocent idiots) with the nonsense they wanted to hear, now it's twits on Twitter and an irresponsible journalist, but the result is the same - the poor oppressed minorities take to the streets to loot, burn and attack. Photo Plod said that all of the people arrested already had criminal convictions - nothing new there then, because it's always the low life who crawl out of their gutter to take advantage in this type of situation, they always ride on the back of genuine, peaceful demos and turn them to their own advantage.

How to deal with it? Dunno. Water canon, even if they could legally be used in GB, would no doubt take a very long time to deploy.
So-called rubber bullets are in fact made of plastic, they can and have killed people at close range.
Even if they could be deployed quickly, I don't think that the army is any kind of answer, and I'm not sure it's even legal for the army to be used against our own citizens. And anyway, unless they were allowed to use live ammo, what could they do that the police can't?
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The police don't shoot innocent people, they can do no wrong. Shooting people carrying table legs and back packs is in our interest.
 
Laudrup said:
This a problem:
Analysis by the London School of Economics and the Open Society Justice Initiative found that there are 41.6 Section 60 searches for every 1,000 black people, compared with 1.6 for every 1,000 white people – making black people 26.6 times more likely to be stopped and searched. Asians were 6.3 times more likely to be stopped than whites, according to the analysis of Ministry of Justice figures for 2008-09.
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Such a wide sweeping statistic, it means absolutely nothing.

Take a weeks worth of Section 60 searches in the middle of Cheshire, and see A: How many were conducted, how many were black.

Then take a weeks worth of Section 60 searches but from the middle of, say Hackney.

What do you get? The above statistic which means sod all.

That's the problem. People hung up on statistics.
If there are alot of black people in a high crime area then yes, theyre more likely to be stopped and searched. That's not racism that's mathematics.

Just like when there's a rape you don't see many women being arrested do you?
 
Laudrup said:
The police don't shoot innocent people, they can do no wrong. Shooting people carrying table legs and back packs is in our interest.
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Seriously are you a stuck record, have you never made a mistake, I guess your perfect :shrug: it's unfortunate that an armed response officer if they make a mistake it can prove deadly, I've known ARO's and the last thing they ever want to do is shoot someone
 
Laudrup said:
The police don't shoot innocent people, they can do no wrong. Shooting people carrying table legs and back packs is in our interest.
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Again, with respect. Tosh.
With Harry Stanley they were reacting to a phone call, and the officer in question made a decision at the time, on the ground.
With de Menezes, again they were reacting to a situation at a very very fraught time.

It must be lovely to sit in your armchair and say that you'd make the correct call when faced under the pressures those men are put under every day.
 
Scumbags are at it in Hackney now Live on BBC News 24
 
Marcel said:
Such a wide sweeping statistic, it means absolutely nothing.

Take a weeks worth of Section 60 searches in the middle of Cheshire, and see A: How many were conducted, how many were black.

Then take a weeks worth of Section 60 searches but from the middle of, say Hackney.

What do you get? The above statistic which means sod all.

That's the problem. People hung up on statistics.
If there are alot of black people in a high crime area then yes, theyre more likely to be stopped and searched. That's not racism that's mathematics.

Just like when there's a rape you don't see many women being arrested do you?
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Exactly.

"The majority of the population have an above average number of limbs" - the best statistic available for proving how useless statistics can be.
 
Laudrup said:
That isn't the argument though, obviously any criminal engaged in a criminal act will be arrested regardless of skin pigmentation.

This a problem:



As for the rest of the posts about 'shooting them all' they are ridiculous, the army being brought in, again draconian thinking and something you'd find in Syria or the ever popular simplistic and poorly thought out 'build more prisons!'. Build them with what? Tens of millions we don't have and fill them with petty criminals who will cost £40k+ a year to keep locked up?
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It only costs £40K if you supply them with LCD TV's and play stations. We won't need to do that this time, they can take the ones they stole with them.

So, given that you don't want more of them in prison how would you say we should deal with these protestors? What are the alternative options for dealing with this criminality?
 
Ruffle their hair lovingly, give them a much needed hug and discuss their feelings I would have thought.


Then build them a park.
 
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