So Tottenham burns!

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Laudrup said:
The family don't seem to be getting told what has happened which is a major problem, how can they be put at ease and the rumour mill quashed when the police won't answer?
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IPCC Press Release

"I understand the distress that the shooting of Mark Duggan has caused to his family and in the community and that people need answers about what happened to him," an IPCC spokesman said.

"This case (Mark Duggan) was referred to the IPCC immediately and we declared it an independent investigation and sent our investigators straight to the scene in Tottenham, where they took control and remained until late Friday night, supervising the forensic examinations. An independent investigation means that all aspects are carried out by IPCC investigators.

"We are in close contact with Mark Duggan's family and supported 14 family members and friends in viewing and formally identifying Mr Duggan's body. We have been in telephone contact with close family tonight and have further meetings with them tomorrow.

"I have tonight spoken to community representatives and hope to meet with them and others as early as possible. I remain in frequent contact with David Lammy, the local MP.

"We are still gathering evidence and will release further details about our progress with the investigation as soon as we can."
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Lynton said:
more than probably didn't. Read above!
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Where? The Guardian info suggests it may have been a police weapon.

At the end of the it is all rumour until some facts emerge. All it has done is build up more racial tension and police mistrust in the black community.

The question really needs to be how do we stop this from repeating itself?

And saying go out with water cannons or shoot them is not a way of stopping this from happening. The root cause needs treating, but that is the hardest thing to work with, whole communities have been ingrained with police mistrust, how the force can pull it back from there, god only knows.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Even supposing it is true, if Duggan had a gun and if he reached for it or pointed it at a police officer (without discharging it)then I'd say they were still more than justified in shooting him.
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That is a truism though, pointing the gun at them would be justified as they would be in imminent danger.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
IPCC Press Release

"I understand the distress that the shooting of Mark Duggan has caused to his family and in the community and that people need answers about what happened to him," an IPCC spokesman said.

"This case (Mark Duggan) was referred to the IPCC immediately and we declared it an independent investigation and sent our investigators straight to the scene in Tottenham, where they took control and remained until late Friday night, supervising the forensic examinations. An independent investigation means that all aspects are carried out by IPCC investigators.

"We are in close contact with Mark Duggan's family and supported 14 family members and friends in viewing and formally identifying Mr Duggan's body. We have been in telephone contact with close family tonight and have further meetings with them tomorrow.

"I have tonight spoken to community representatives and hope to meet with them and others as early as possible. I remain in frequent contact with David Lammy, the local MP.

"We are still gathering evidence and will release further details about our progress with the investigation as soon as we can."
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That's the IPCC though not the police. If your family member has been shot in the head in those circumstances I don't think you want fobbed off.
 
going onto a different take..

im just reading that nothing was going on until people started mis-tweeting information and people then started gathering which lead to some incidents.

you have to wonder if the likes of facebook and twitter are making it all to easy to organise these sort of "events"
 
I think the speculation should stop at this point.
Because the Guardian says something, its not fact. They have reported leaks from the IPCC before, which when it all came out were false.
The only facts are that one man is dead. A non police firearm was recovered at the scene.
Police, so far as I am aware, have not said that a Police Officer was shot by any particular person, just that he was shot.
As for the family, they have an IPCC Family liaison officer, the IPCC are responsible for press and public release of information, not Police. If the family are not happy, then their anger should be directed there.
As for the other incidents mentioned, lets put a few facts in here shall we?
1. The chair leg incident. The result of a detailed description of a fire arm by a member of the public. Witnesses gave statements that upheld the police officers evidence. The Inquest verdict was overturned from Unlawful killing. The officers, having been subject to 6 years of hell, including a dubious arrest, were exonerated.
2. Stockwell. The Officers were exonerated, for clear and obvious reasons, by an independent IPCC investigation.
 
ding76uk said:
The question really needs to be how do we stop this from repeating itself?

And saying go out with water cannons or shoot them is not a way of stopping this from happening. The root cause needs treating, but that is the hardest thing to work with, whole communities have been ingrained with police mistrust, how the force can pull it back from there, god only knows.
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What's wrong with going out and shooting them? .... Stuff the root cause.... they are scum and should be stopped and it's not up to the police to pull it back. Their community leaders need to get this sorted or suffer the consequences.
 
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Laudrup said:
That's the IPCC though not the police. If your family member has been shot in the head in those circumstances I don't think you want fobbed off.
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Did you actually read the press release, particularly the bit where it said
allaspects are carried out by IPCC investigators
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?

It's not a Police matter any more, the IPCC are undertaking the role that would normally be that of the Police, otherwise you would have the potential scenario of the alledged perpetrator of a crime (in this case the Met) being in direct contact with the family of the victim.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Did you actually read the press release, particularly the bit where it said ?

It's not a Police matter any more, the IPCC are undertaking the role that would normally be that of the Police, otherwise you would have the potential scenario of the alledged perpetrator of a crime (in this case the Met) being in direct contact with the family of the victim.
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I'd guess their reasoning was if you want answers you don't go and ask the monkey.
 
ding76uk said:
Do you honestly think that would work?
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Yes ... I do think it would work! and if it didn't it would at least get rid of some of the scum.
 
Laudrup said:
I'd guess their reasoning was if you want answers you don't go and ask the monkey.
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You're not grasping any of this, are you? The Police can't be in contact with the victim's family as they are the alledged perpetrators of a potential crime, ergo in such instances it is the IPCC that take on the role normally undertaken by the police.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You're not grasping any of this, are you? The Police can't be in contact with the victim's family as they are the alledged perpetrators of a potential crime, ergo in such instances it is the IPCC that take on the role normally undertaken by the police.
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That is a fact a lot of people do not understand. In most eyes, they IPCC are still the police. I know they are not, but a vast majority do not see the difference, therefore are claiming the police.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You're not grasping any of this, are you? The Police can't be in contact with the victim's family as they are the alledged perpetrators of a potential crime, ergo in such instances it is the IPCC that take on the role normally undertaken by the police.
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That doesn't stop them protesting though does it? It may be futile, but with their relative having their head blown off I don't suppose they really had much to lose. I'd probably bet quite a few in that community had dealings with the IPCC anyway, and have about as much faith in them as the police.
 
Laudrup said:
That doesn't stop them protesting though does it? It may be futile, but with their relative having their head blown off I don't suppose they really had much to lose. I'd probably bet quite a few in that community had dealings with the IPCC anyway, and have about as much faith in them as the police.
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No, but it stops the Police for entering into discussions with them, or issuing statements, the 'reluctance' to do so thence being used as the excuse for the whole shocking display on Saturday night.
 
Time to bring the army in and clamp down hard

Enough is enough.

Bring back discipline to this soft, easy going on thugs country
 
ding76uk said:
That is a fact a lot of people do not understand. In most eyes, they IPCC are still the police. I know they are not, but a vast majority do not see the difference, therefore are claiming the police.
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Nearly a quarter are ex-officers or ex-police civilians though. I wouldn't have much faith in the IPCC helping me if I had a complaint.
 
neil_g said:
up until recently you probably also wouldnt of expected an entire media organisation to get dragged through the courts in a huge scandal resulting in a paper being shut down...

media, theyre all crooked. more so than some people reckon the police are.
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I understand the point you're trying to make but it was infect the Guardian that broke the phone hacking scandal. But that's not to say a reporters blog should be treated as fact.
 
I have something to say and that is a big thank you to Chris (Photo Plod) and his colleagues for putting themselves on the front line and doing there best to protect the public and property - Lots of respect for you guys
 
I reckon there will be curfews and army personnel drafted in to restore order.
 
So it's spread to other areas overnight, nothing to do with Tottenham, just an excuse to riot.
What also puzzles me is this oft-used expression 'Community Leaders', who are these people?
Who appoints them as quasi-leaders because nobody voted them into government as far as I know?
Who in the community do they actually speak for?
 
Keith W said:
I have something to say and that is a big thank you to Chris (Photo Plod) and his colleagues for putting themselves on the front line and doing there best to protect the public and property - Lots of respect for you guys
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:plusone:
 
I've been observing this over the weekend, and the thing that surprises me the most is that the police only seem to be equipped with riot shields and truncheons - that's not going to get things under control, and the rioters appear to have proved that by being able carry on with impunity.

Where are the water cannons and rubber shot guns? As soon as something like that kicks off where I am there's massive water cannon trucks moving around the place. Also just about every officer is armed with rubber shot guns, and they are certainly not afraid to use them. As a result pretty much any kind of unrest is brought under control within a couple of hours.

It strikes me that the police in the UK not only have their hands tied, but their legs are also being bound by the political correctness disease that seems to have infected the UK.
 
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Slaphead said:
Where are the water cannons and rubber shot guns? As soon as something like that kicks off where I am there's massive water cannon trucks moving around the place. Also just about every officer is armed with rubber shot guns, and they are certainly not afraid to use them. As a result pretty much any kind of unrest is brought under control within a couple of hours.

It strikes me that the police in the UK not only have their hands tied, but their legs are also being bound by the political correctness disease that seems to have infected the UK.
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they've not been authorised by the home sec for use outside northern ireland - theres a rule that needs changing asap
 
dcash29 said:
Time to bring the army in and clamp down hard

Enough is enough.

Bring back discipline to this soft, easy going on thugs country
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Funny you should mention the army, because I think that's precisely what these undisciplined youths need - these kids should be sent to the army instead of prison, so they can learn some discipline and respect, including self-respect.
 
onona said:
Funny you should mention the army, because I think that's precisely what these undisciplined youths need - these kids should be sent to the army instead of prison, so they can learn some discipline and respect, including self-respect.
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lol - you like to fight so much, go fight the taliban :wave:
 
big soft moose said:
lol - you like to fight so much, go fight the taliban :wave:
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+1!!!

Itz ez 2b and act gangsta man innit blud wen da bad 5-0 dont 'ave no guns to shoot back :bat:

I saw a clip from the BBC when these feral yoofs were attacking a police car, one could be seen trying to slash the tyres with his blade and then ran off when he failed..... WTF!!! Should be battoned to within an inch of his life just for carrying the knife, let alone the wanton destruction of property!
 
They're scum plain and simple.
No respect for other people, society or other people's property.

And that's where this we have gone wrong. There is a distinct lack of respect within society. There's too much emphasis on the "me me me" and "to hell how my actions affect anyone else".

If respect and thought for others was taught and emphasised enough then you wouldn't have situations like this.

I know my kids will never be found slashing police car tyres or setting fire to shops.
Why? Because they have respect for other people, and they care about how they affect other people. Simple as.

And if they were ever caught in a position where they were shot by a police officer, then yes I would naturally want answers as to what exactly happened...
But first and foremost I would want to know what the hell they were doing to be caught in that situation in the first place. It's not as if the police take pot shots at random passers by.
 
Where on earth are the army? Send them in, fully armed, and if people continue to riot and loot then they get shot - simple! Why is it ok for them to carry on looting and rioting with no consequence?
 
Sorry I was reading through the entire thread before comment but I got tired of reading through continued posts by certain members posting liberal politically correct bovine excrement honestly do you really believe the excrement you are talking

The guy had a gun, you only carry a weapon if you have the intent to use it

The 16YO was committing unlawful actions at the time she was dealt with by the police, they were not in a position to check her age, were not talking about some underage lass trying to by a WKD at a bar here, she was intend on causing harm to others in her actions...

With both incidents combined were the actions of those involved in the riots proportionate to the level of damage that they received :shrug:

I hope that the liberals in this thread like it in there little world it must be a lovely place where there is no crime or nasty people to upset them

Matt
MWHCVT
 
I also assume this armed hoodrat was also an innocent kind hearted person who did charity work, helped old ladies accross the street and sang in the church choir, you watch this is the sort of crap his family and friends will all come out with, and the loaded illegal weapon hidden in his socks was planted on him by the police who were being racist etc... please, he got shot for walking around with a gun, deal with it. And a lot of these other protesters probably didnt even know the man or care about him, they just see a load of people looting and destroying stuff and see it as a way to fill their bored afternoons. society and mentality of youth really did get thrown out the window this week.

I dont care what the papers write about this, they all have their own agenda and want to try and get good pictures of buildings on fire and make out that london has turned into a bad day in bosnia. What makes me laugh is these thugs complain and scream police brutality when they get their heads pounded in and free legal advice, yet they forget to mention the fact they were throwing petrol bombs and rocks at the police seconds before they got a dose of police batton
 
ding76uk said:
That is a fact a lot of people do not understand. In most eyes, they IPCC are still the police. I know they are not, but a vast majority do not see the difference, therefore are claiming the police.
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Just shows how badly education is failing, if they don't understand the word
"Independent".
 
whatdoesthisbutt said:
Well, I for one am bitterly disapointed.

I trawled EBay today looking for cheap 'shop soiled' electronic gear.....found nothing.

Whats the point of all this looting?
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Try Gumtree, should be loads on there.:)
 
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