Shooting and Explosions in Paris

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From reading this thread it is obvious the terrorists are wining

:(
 
Phil V said:
There we disagree, the true meaning of being a Christian has nothing to do with the Secular society, non-believers aren't obliged to hold 'Christian' beliefs. The issue is the people who believe themselves to be Christians who don't agree with you.

And that's the crux, those 'Christian' white supremacists would say that you're the one with the wrong Christian values, those people bombing abortion clinics... Etc etc.

But mostly! Why do threads discussing the evil of some Islamic fundamentalists always end up discussing Christianity?

Simply because some 'holier than though' Christian tries to make political gain from the situation. That's what is totally scandalous. I don't really want to belittle anyone's belief, but when people try to promote their superiority because of their choice of mythical being, I'm afraid they've put themselves up for ridicule.
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Well the simple answer is look at Jesus' example and teachings and judge which one represents him and hence is a Christian ... to me it's easy, as Jesus said when discussing people's claims, "You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Matthew 7:16)

We can argue till the cows come home about who or what is a Christian from a secular viewpoint but from the Bible's viewpoint it is quite clear.
 
Laudrup said:
Breivik rambled a lot of incoherent nonsense. Culturally a Christian, but not religiously from what I can see or what he has said.
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So, you are saying exactly what MOST Muslims are saying about ISIL - being criticised on here for saying it?

GAME, SET AND MATCH

CHECKMATE
 
gramps said:
To be a Christian requires following Jesus Christ and his teachings, you cannot do that in isolation, love for God and neighbour requires action, including following the Bible's command to meet together for worship (Hebrews 10:24,25).
You can lead a good life from your own armchair to some degree but you cannot live a Christian life of following in Jesus' footsteps from your armchair, (disability obviously discounted).
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Fair comment :thumbs:

So where does that leave or even categorise ( as we as a nation love labels) your average Joe in the street that doesn't attend Church,
but helps his / her elderly neighbour do their shopping, drop a few quid into some poor homeless chaps or chapess's hat.
Pick's up a fallen person in the street etc etc?
They are obviously not a Christian, as they don't go to Church.

Yes I would do ( have done) all this and the last time I was in church must be nearly 30 years ago.
 
gramps said:
Well the simple answer is look at Jesus' example and teachings and judge which one represents him and hence is a Christian ... to me it's easy, as Jesus said when discussing people's claims, "You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Matthew 7:16)

We can argue till the cows come home about who or what is a Christian from a secular viewpoint but from the Bible's viewpoint it is quite clear.
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However is it not the case that no one knows what Jesus said because none of the new testament was written during his life time?
 
Cobra said:
Fair comment :thumbs:

So where does that leave or even categorise ( as we as a nation love labels) your average Joe in the street that doesn't attend Church,
but helps his / her elderly neighbour do their shopping, drop a few quid into some poor homeless chaps or chapess's hat.
Pick's up a fallen person in the street etc etc?
They are obviously not a Christian, as they don't go to Church.

Yes I would do ( have done) all this and the last time I was in church must be nearly 30 years ago.
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You'd label them a jolly decent fellow. Destined to eternal damnation.
 
gramps said:
Well the simple answer is look at Jesus' example and teachings and judge which one represents him and hence is a Christian ... to me it's easy, as Jesus said when discussing people's claims, "You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Matthew 7:16)

We can argue till the cows come home about who or what is a Christian from a secular viewpoint but from the Bible's viewpoint it is quite clear.
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But I have no desire to measure those people against Jesus' teachings, why should I care? If they say they're Christians, that's your problem not mine, it's up to the church to defend itself (where have we heard this before?)
 
Cobra said:
Fair comment (y)

So where does that leave or even categorise ( as we as a nation love labels) your average Joe in the street that doesn't attend Church,
but helps his / her elderly neighbour do their shopping, drop a few quid into some poor homeless chaps or chapess's hat.
Pick's up a fallen person in the street etc etc?
They are obviously not a Christian, as they don't go to Church.

Yes I would do ( have done) all this and the last time I was in church must be nearly 30 years ago.
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They are what most people would describe as a "good person", "good neighbour" etc and indeed may well be a considerably better person than some who call themselves a Christian and go to church. The key to being a Christian is following the teachings of Jesus Christ, though the man you describe may well be following the 2nd commandment Jesus spoke of, that of 'loving your neighbour as yourself' ... however it is the 'loving of God with your whole mind, soul and strength' that is missing.
 
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Phil V said:
But I have no desire to measure those people against Jesus' teachings, why should I care? If they say they're Christians, that's your problem not mine, it's up to the church to defend itself (where have we heard this before?)
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If you don't care, why are you posting in response?
 
gramps said:
however it is the 'loving of God with your whole mind, soul and strength' that is missing.
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Interesting Thanks for the point of view (y)
 
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gramps said:
and indeed may well be a considerably better person than some who call themselves a Christian and go to church
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As an after thought, not all Christians are necessarily good people then.
I could be a right b*****d but as long as I go to church and listen intently to what the Vicar is saying, read the bible pray each night, etc etc.
I could call my self a Christian?
 
gramps said:
If you don't care, why are you posting in response?
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I'm pointing out the errors of the hypocrites, I'm not trying to attack your faith, but some people who are full of hatred who align themselves with it. Which, as I say is ironic given the original theme of the thread.

Like many, I consider myself to have a decent set of morals which I can hold onto without recourse to any mythical beings, unfortunately for your religion, some people who have disgusting morals will lean on your God as justification for their beliefs and actions. It's not my fault this happens, and my pointing it out shouldn't reflect on you if you're a 'good Christian'. :D
 
Cobra said:
As an after thought, not all Christians are necessarily good people then.
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You are not paying attention are you!
Not all who call themselves Christian are good people.
 
andy700 said:
So, you are saying exactly what MOST Muslims are saying about ISIL - being criticised on here for saying it?

GAME, SET AND MATCH

CHECKMATE
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You couldn't be more wrong. Islamic State are devoted to Islam, they carry the Quran everywhere, recite it, preach it, set up a state according to sharia, martyr themselves for Islam and ultimately want to bring on the end of the world.

Breivik's religious views were about as incoherent as the LRA that people like to equate IS with. A false analogy.
 
gramps said:
You are not paying attention are you!
Not all who call themselves Christian are good people.
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But they slot right into the definition.
Just wanted that bit clarified that's all (y)

No need to shout btw ;)
 
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Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Abrahamic religions all may have the same roots

The Prophet Abraham is claimed by Jews as the ancestor of the Israelites, while his son Ishmael(Isma'il) is seen in Muslim tradition as the ancestor of the Arabs. In Christian tradition, Abraham is described as a "father in faith" (see Romans 4), which may suggest that all three religions come from one source.
 
Cobra said:
As an after thought, not all Christians are necessarily good people then.
I could be a right b*****d but as long as I go to church and listen intently to what the Vicar is saying, read the bible pray each night, etc etc.
I could call my self a Christian?
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In my opinion absolutely, and history has demonstrated that many do exactly that. Many a murderer was "such a nice man and a good Christian" ;)
 
gramps said:
To be a Christian requires following Jesus Christ and his teachings, you cannot do that in isolation, love for God and neighbour requires action, including following the Bible's command to meet together for worship (Hebrews 10:24,25).
You can lead a good life from your own armchair to some degree but you cannot live a Christian life of following in Jesus' footsteps from your armchair, (disability obviously discounted).
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As you carried it on...

After telling us at length how it's all about the New Testament (including a return to Jesus here), in order to prove a point... Straight into an Old Testament quote.

And you wonder why we see this the way we do?
 
Phil V said:
I'm pointing out the errors of the hypocrites, I'm not trying to attack your faith, but some people who are full of hatred who align themselves with it. Which, as I say is ironic given the original theme of the thread.

Like many, I consider myself to have a decent set of morals which I can hold onto without recourse to any mythical beings, unfortunately for your religion, some people who have disgusting morals will lean on your God as justification for their beliefs and actions. It's not my fault this happens, and my pointing it out shouldn't reflect on you if you're a 'good Christian'. :D
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Well yes, I can call myself a good photographer but it doesn't mean that I am ... it's the same with people, some call themselves Christian but their actions prove that they are not ... others call themselves Muslim but their actions prove that they are not ... and so on.
The fact that someone justifies what they do by claiming belief in God doesn't fool anyone, least of all God ... however what it does do is misrepresent God and turn people away from Him with a "well if that's what being a Christian is, I want none of it".
 
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gramps said:
You are not paying attention are you!
Not all who call themselves Christian are good people.
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Ok, I give in and stand corrected. Sigh.
 
andy700 said:
New Testament



I'm a part time Zoarostrian (can't even spell it:D) mainly in the summer when it is warm and the time is right for a BBQ.
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With Queen playing in the background? :-)
 
Laudrup said:
You couldn't be more wrong. Islamic State are devoted to Islam, they carry the Quran everywhere, recite it, preach it, set up a state according to sharia, martyr themselves for Islam and ultimately want to bring on the end of the world.

Breivik's religious views were about as incoherent as the LRA that people like to equate IS with. A false analogy.
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More excuses:p
I thought that you were mistyping, but the LRA is correct - The Lords Resistance Army - a Christian influenced group which has massacred people over a very large part of Africa. They are quite like ISIL in that they are religiously motivated and use very extreme "Old" Testament forms of oppression - murder, rape, child abduction etc.
 
Phil V said:
Straight into an Old Testament quote.

And you wonder why we see this the way we do?
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Um .. no the Book of Hebrews was written by the Apostle Paul and is part of the New Testament :)
 
gramps said:
No they don't ... the footsteps of Jesus remember :)
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I'm confused, I need to lie down :D
( I'm not taking the p*** btw I'm truly interested )
 
gramps said:
You are not paying attention are you!
Not all who call themselves Christian are good people.
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Again, trying not to belittle but to understand.

If someone claims to be a Christian and is good, thats due to their religion
If someone claims to be a Christian and is bad, thats not the fault of their religion
If someone claims to be an Atheist and is bad, thats because they have no religion
So who is responsible if an Atheist is a good person?
 
andy700 said:
Freddy was their best known follower - may or may not have been true - what a talent though - who cares about religion!!!!
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Ah but he wasn't a follower.
He was raised in that faith, but didn't follow in later life.
He requested a Zoroastrian funeral because he knew his mother wished it. :-)
 
gramps said:
Well yes, I can call myself a good photographer but it doesn't mean that I am ... it's the same with people, some call themselves Christian but their actions prove that they are not ... others call themselves Muslim but their actions prove that they are not ... and so on.
The fact that someone justifies what they do by claiming belief in God doesn't fool anyone, least of all God ... however what it does do is misrepresent God and turn people away from Him with a "well if that's what being a Christian is, I want none of it".
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The point isn't whether it agrees with your interpretation or not, the point is that they Christian, Muslim, Bhudist whatever believe they are and interpret it as that they are. As such, especially with a large following it becomes a dangerous mix that is highly likely to attract more and more to their interpretation.

As such the Norway idiot, the lra etc are christians with in my opinion a very warped interpretation. Denying their Christianity is not helpful in my opinion.
 
viv1969 said:
He requested a Zoroastrian funeral
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FFS! will you stop it?
I'm having enough trouble getting my head around Christianity & Islam without you throwing something else into the mix!

:p
 
Phil V said:
Again, trying not to belittle but to understand.

If someone claims to be a Christian and is good, thats due to their religion
If someone claims to be a Christian and is bad, thats not the fault of their religion
If someone claims to be an Atheist and is bad, thats because they have no religion
So who is responsible if an Atheist is a good person?
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It may well be ... it certainly should be a major contributory factor.
Depends ... what does their religion teach? Not all religious organisations teach what the Bible says, many teach contrary to what it says so may well share fault.
Not necessarily, they choose to do what is bad, religion may or may not help them to change ... each of us has free will.
They are responsible, and well done them, though the Creator giving each of us a conscience helps :)
 
David Koresh was a Christian.
Lovely fella that one.
 
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