Shooting and Explosions in Paris

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Llamaman said:
So huge they invented a time machine to go back and sign the Good Friday agreement 3 years before 9/11?
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I think you find there was many a terrorist incident post good Friday agreement, but they just changed the IRA to various other names. Same folks different name.
 
Gremlin said:
As I said in another thread, I lived my life doing what I wanted,I had a trip to London planned during the 1970s bombings, people said don't go you
might get hurt, I went, nothing happened.
If you give up doing what you want because of these things then the terrorists have to a degree won
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I agree with the sentiment and I was working in London in '70s/80's in sales, travelling around the city and west London. I was younger then and more gung-ho. I am in West End tonight for a 'do' I must confess to being more than a bit apprehensive! However I'm still going.
 
All the halfwits blaming refugees might want to stop and think that terrorist movements like IS and AQ have resources (lots of them thanks to oil money backers) - ergo its not necessary for their cells to enter europe via some rust bucket death trap accross the med, or by the arduous journey through the balkans - they can simply fly in on false documents, or if bringing arms or explosives its a simple matter to make a fast run to an isolated beach with a speedboat/rib or an undeclared low level flight and landing with a light aircraft or helicopter
 
dejongj said:
This. I was travelling back to the UK Friday evening after an extended assignment abroad. Early evening the airport checks were 100%. Not seen anything like it in recent history. The sensitivity of the scanners was at their highest setting, picking up the slightest thing and every carry on suitcase for every flight was being opened. This was several hours before the attack.
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Saying on the news this morning, a car was found in Germany with a few automatic weapons onboard, a day or two before the French atrocities.
 
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Byker28i said:
So lets look at something we did finally resolve - Northern Ireland. Only when the people had finally had enough, when those involved in violence lost their backing, when after many political discussions was a ceasefire negotiated did things finally get resolved. When the people had two years of not walking about in fear, when they saw investment and jobs starting to come, did they not want to return to the old ways and lose that opportunity of a normal life.
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I suspect that it's a bridge too far for the French. Giving convicted terrorists amnesty and then rewarding their sympathisers and supporters with seats on local and national governments would not gel well with the Gallic mindset, believe me.

Bob
 
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OldCarlos said:
Not sure anyone is blaming all the refugees.
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thats not what the biffers and co are saying on face ache - apparently the 'migrant crisis' and our 'lily livered response to it' are to blame for allowing these terrorists in - my point is that this is b*****ks as even if there were no refugee/migrant crisis the terrorists could still get in easily anyway
 
nilagin said:
That and as a result of the lack of airport security in Egypt recently. My mate went to Tenerife a few days before the Russian plane disaster and although the airport security was good on the way out, on the way back, after the disaster, the security checks had been ramped right up.
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I don't think the reported lack of security witnessed by the DT journalist was recent though. It is only due to recent events it was deemed newsworthy.

Imagine how different things could have been if the DT had published the report into the lack of security and action was taken at the time...

EDIT - by recent I mean in the past days / weeks. I believe the journalist witnessed the lack of security earlier this year.
 
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big soft moose said:
thats not what the biffers and co are saying on face ache - apparently the 'migrant crisis' and our 'lily livered response to it' are to blame for allowing these terrorists in - my point is that this is b*****ks as even if there were no refugee/migrant crisis the terrorists could still get in easily anyway
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But this isn't facebook and not everyone on here uses it so somewhat irrelevant to this thread unless you invite them all here to share their views.
None of my fb friends are saying it either
 
big soft moose said:
thats not what the biffers and co are saying on face ache - apparently the 'migrant crisis' and our 'lily livered response to it' are to blame for allowing these terrorists in - my point is that this is b*****ks as even if there were no refugee/migrant crisis the terrorists could still get in easily anyway
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Or they are already here ie British/French citizens.

Think it is also worth rembering that there are examples of moslems risking their own lives to westerners. I'm thinking of the recent Tunisia atrocity and a Muslem barman in Paris on Friday.

Nonetheless, right wingers would probably argue that if we had never let any Muslems into the west ever we wouldn't have the problem.

Curry houses, retailers that are always open, NHS staff, numerous private enterprises and consequent employment opportunities, Moslem MI5/6 staff (who I would imagine will be quite useful at the moment) are just some of things I can think of that we also wouldn't have.

I think PIRA/Catholics, is a good analogy. I know many Catholics, including my wife. None of them, including the Irish ones (e.g my wife's family), have ever condoned the terrorist activities.

Most people of all creeds, races and religion want to live in peace. Anyone who has travelled will know nice people outnumber the nasty by at least 10 to 1, pretty much everywhere in the World.
 
arclight said:
Medieval ideology ............ they have failed to achieve anything like modern civilisation.
Medieval ideology + modern weapons is a deadly combination.
They appear to have a lot of supporters and sympathisers.
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and nothing to do with the west constantly meddling with their countries throughout history?
 
BBR said:
Or they are already here ie British/French citizens.
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indeed - although arms and explosives would still need to be smuggled in

It is worth remembering that no country in the world has ever acheived impermeable borders - even at the height of the cold war with the borders between the Nato states and the warsaw pact delinated by razor wire and mine fields agents and goods were still smuggled both ways across the border, likewise in WW2 at the height of axis domination of europe the allies were still flying/dropping agents and arms and amunition into occupied territories , and german agents were still operating in the UK.

Ergo if IS (or whoever) want to operate in europe they will , we can make it more difficult but we can't make it impossible , and there is a distinct issue about how much civil freedom we should give up in trying to prevent the unpreventable - remember ' a people who would trade liberty for security deserve neither and will probably lose both'
 
neil_g said:
and nothing to do with the west constantly meddling with their countries throughout history?
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That is a trigger and a catalyst to some extent, but not a root cause.
These lowlifes killed people in places where the west was not involved and who never meddled in their countries - Kenya and Mumbai to name a couple.
 
arclight said:
That is a trigger and a catalyst to some extent, but not a root cause.
These lowlifes killed people in places where the west was not involved and who never meddled in their countries - Kenya and Mumbai to name a couple.
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And just last Thursday, 2 ISIL suicide bombers killed 41 people in Beirut.
Is it just me that isn't hearing of anyone changing their FB picture to a Lebanese flag.
And the news outlets haven't exactly been shouting about it.
 
I was just outside Thetford this morning and there were a couple of Euro fighters playing fast and lose over the Forest.
The noise was something to behold, as were the aerobatics :thumbs:
( I'm damned sure they were strafing the A11 ;) )
 
big soft moose said:
All the halfwits blaming refugees might want to stop and think that terrorist movements like IS and AQ have resources (lots of them thanks to oil money backers) - ergo its not necessary for their cells to enter europe via some rust bucket death trap accross the med, or by the arduous journey through the balkans - they can simply fly in on false documents, or if bringing arms or explosives its a simple matter to make a fast run to an isolated beach with a speedboat/rib or an undeclared low level flight and landing with a light aircraft or helicopter
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Not read or heard of anyone blaming refugees, but it is not hard to see ISIS having a strategy of sending some of their people among the refugees. These terrorists aim to cause fear, create chaos and paint a picture that the West hates Islam.
By puting ISIS among the refugees it is then not possible to accept anyone at face value. All then need to be screened which is too big a task to achieve and the refugee situation becomes chaos with hundreds of thousands held at borders. Riots ensue etc. Big success for ISIS for little effort.
 
arclight said:
Not read or heard of anyone blaming refugees,
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I didn't catch all the news report this morning, but they have said a few arrived with refugee's, recently, and the refugees themselves said there were a few people huddled in the corner of the boat,
keeping themselves to their selves.
 
big soft moose said:
All the halfwits blaming refugees might want to stop and think that terrorist movements like IS and AQ have resources (lots of them thanks to oil money backers) - ergo its not necessary for their cells to enter europe via some rust bucket death trap accross the med, or by the arduous journey through the balkans - they can simply fly in on false documents, or if bringing arms or explosives its a simple matter to make a fast run to an isolated beach with a speedboat/rib or an undeclared low level flight and landing with a light aircraft or helicopter
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PARIS—One of the assailants in Friday’s deadly attacks in and near the French capital recently entered Europe as a Syrian migrant, people familiar with the matter said, exposing gaps in the continent’s security as it copes with the biggest refugee crisis in decades.

French investigators were able to match the remains of one of the suicide bombers who attacked France’s main stadium to a Syrian passport that was used to enter Europe’s free-travel area and apply for asylum, the people familiar with the matter said.

Greek authorities said the holder of the passport found at the stadium near Paris had been registered as a refugee on the island of Leros on Oct. 3.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-attacks-syrian-migrant-was-among-the-bombers-1447547354
 
DorsetDude said:
Ah well, obviously ISIS terrorists then. ;)
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That wasn't in doubt as per the news item, they knew they were on that boat, and as an added item, some refugee's saw a group keeping away from everyone else
But of course never thought to report it, till after the fact :rolleyes: .
 
poacher said:
PARIS—One of the assailants in Friday’s deadly attacks in and near the French capital recently entered Europe as a Syrian migrant, people familiar with the matter said, exposing gaps in the continent’s security as it copes with the biggest refugee crisis in decades.

French investigators were able to match the remains of one of the suicide bombers who attacked France’s main stadium to a Syrian passport that was used to enter Europe’s free-travel area and apply for asylum, the people familiar with the matter said.

Greek authorities said the holder of the passport found at the stadium near Paris had been registered as a refugee on the island of Leros on Oct. 3.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-attacks-syrian-migrant-was-among-the-bombers-1447547354
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so someone came in pretending to be a refugee ... this makes the genuine refugees to blame how exactly ? - If a terrorist flies in on an airliner are the other passengers to blame for his future actions ?
 
neil_g said:
i tend to find a quiet spot on the train, doesnt make me a terrorist.
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True enough, I was just musing the fact that they ( the refugee's) decided to speak out after the fact, if they had concerns initially, they should have brought it to the attention of the authorities at the time.
 
Cobra said:
True enough, I was just musing the fact that they ( the refugee's) decided to speak out after the fact, if they had concerns initially, they should have brought it to the attention of the authorities at the time.
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hindsight is a wonderful thing though - the refugees probably fear the police so arent likely to want to bring themselves to their attention (if your whole life experience was under a dictators rule where the police have more in common with the sicherdenheist than dixon of dock green you'd probably fear the police too )
 
big soft moose said:
hindsight is a wonderful thing though - the refugees probably fear the police so arent likely to want to bring themselves to their attention (if your whole life experience was under a dictators rule where the police have more in common with the sicherdenheist than dixon of dock green you'd probably fear the police too )
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I'm sure you are right, but it just goes to prove what ever race, colour or creed, there is always a bandwagon to be jumped on :D
 
big soft moose said:
so someone came in pretending to be a refugee ... this makes the genuine refugees to blame how exactly ? - If a terrorist flies in on an airliner are the other passengers to blame for his future actions ?
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We don't know who is a genuine refugee, that is the problem.
 
Laudrup said:
We don't know who is a genuine refugee, that is the problem.
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We also don't know who is a genuine businessman....or a genuine tourist.
Just because they might have legitimate documents, doesn't mean they're not as big a threat (or not!) as anyone making their way to Europe the hard way.
 
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viv1969 said:
And just last Thursday, 2 ISIL suicide bombers killed 41 people in Beirut.
Is it just me that isn't hearing of anyone changing their FB picture to a Lebanese flag.
And the news outlets haven't exactly been shouting about it.
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One of my friends has changed their fb pic to a Lebanese flag. Although I suspect this is more to illustrate a point rather than any connection to the country. No Kenyan flags either [emoji53]
 
Phil1974 said:
. No Kenyan flags either [emoji53]
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Or Nigerian, where almost as many people were killed in a single Boko Haram terrorist attack in January, as were killed on 9/11.
 
Surely the issue here is to close European borders for entry so that refugees have to be able to prove who they are and suitable background checks can be made before they are admitted. I'm sure that the humanitarians will throw their hands up in horror but when sovereign security is being threatened there can be no half measures.
 
Overexposed said:
Surely the issue here is to close European borders for entry so that refugees have to be able to prove who they are and suitable background checks can be made before they are admitted. I'm sure that the humanitarians will throw their hands up in horror but when sovereign security is being threatened there can be no half measures.
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except we already know that one of the attackers passed through the greek border.

that only works if they exist on a known list of bad people somewhere.
 
Did anyone see the footage last night? I don't know when it was filmed, but it was either one or two days after the attack (Sat/Sun).

A TV crew were interviewing members of the public inside a Paris cafe/restaurant when a wave of panic swept through the building triggered by something outside but no-one knew exactly what. Before you knew it everyone was clambering for their lives with a look of pure terror in their eyes. It was heartbreaking to see. :(
 
Keith W said:
There is a time and place for humor

I would suggest that this is not one of them
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But that's just the point.
120-odd people were brutally killed.....an outrageous attack.
But should humour stop?
Should travel stop?
Should the sheep wear French flags / Eiffel towers and beat their chests in outrage and mock solidarité.

No. Because then these people are winning.
I don't know what the answer is. Carpet bombing Mecca would be

dumb and futile. Diplomacy quite possibly a waste of time......I don't know.
But I sure as s*** won't be changing the way I live my live because of the MINUTE threat of being a terrorist victim.....simply because that's exactly what they want.
FCUK THEM.

neil_g said:
except we already know that one of the attackers passed through the greek border.

that only works if they exist on a known list of bad people somewhere.
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Why? If I'd got my passport stamped in Greece, they'd have known I'd passed through there.
I may be on a few people's sh1t lists, but I'm not on a terrorist watch list.
 
viv1969 said:
We also don't know who is a genuine businessman....or a genuine tourist.
Just because they might have legitimate documents, doesn't mean they're not as big a threat (or not!) as anyone making their way to Europe the hard way.
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James Bond - Universal Exports. Seems legit :D
 
viv1969 said:
We also don't know who is a genuine businessman....or a genuine tourist.
Just because they might have legitimate documents, doesn't mean they're not as big a threat (or not!) as anyone making their way to Europe the hard way.
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Turn up at an airport with no documents and see how far you get. One of these terrorists had supposedly came through via Greece and Serbia posing as a refugee and claimed asylum and still people don't see the danger this causes?
 
viv1969 said:
Why? If I'd got my passport stamped in Greece, they'd have known I'd passed through there.
I may be on a few people's sh1t lists, but I'm not on a terrorist watch list.
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the suggestion seemed to be that closing/restricting the borders would help root these bad people out. but i was saying that only works if we know they're bad.

unless i misread.
 
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