Shenanigans at the SWPP

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Well that's up to you Mike, such a large and diverse pool here to dip into, seems a shame to not share what you know with a wider audience
 
MARK AMIES said:
The thing that has become very apparent is that Talk Photography is so very accessable to everyone at every level - so it really is a winner from that point of view.

- I bet I get called a creep now.
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Thanks Mark!
if we do add a section then any input is welcome! We have a lot of people dipping the toe into the event sector.
 
matty said:
Thanks Mark!
if we do add a section then any input is welcome! We have a lot of people dipping the toe into the event sector.
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Matty,

It might not be a bad idea. You are right on this forum and on the 'Pro paid for forums' there are many who have read and been told that event photography is like printing money - Maybe through TP at least we can point out that it isn't, unless you are at the very top of the game; and even then it has taken years of hard work commitment and financial outlay to get there, and the same amount of hard work to stay there.

There are good and bad everywhere and a lot of average (I'm one), Mike has a home for 'Event Photographers' where registered members can discuss the finer points of the Event Photography Trade but maybe an Event Section could be of benefit to all.

Regards

Ian
 
matty said:
Well that's up to you Mike, such a large and diverse pool here to dip into, seems a shame to not share what you know with a wider audience
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I already do, you can see me at photomart on the 25th Feb or at Focus from 7-10th March but if you are willing to pay me then I will happily spend a lot of time here talking about event photography :thumbs:.

The real shame is that this information is not available from the SWPP but they will happily sell you membership to an organisation that professes to be able to mentor you in events and then award you qualifications in events but they do not have the knowledge or experience :thumbsdown:.

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
Strangely TP has never come up in a conversation I have had as the font of wisdom for Event Photography (much like the SWPP forum :bonk:) - now if it was called Talk Event Photography things might be different.
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mike weeks said:
I already do, you can see me at photomart on the 25th Feb or at Focus from 7-10th March but if you are willing to pay me then I will happily spend a lot of time here talking about event photography :thumbs:.
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:'( Seems a bit one way.

Get some help and give some advice on here surely?
 
mike weeks said:
I already do, you can see me at photomart on the 25th Feb or at Focus from 7-10th March but if you are willing to pay me then I will happily spend a lot of time here talking about event photography :thumbs:.

The real shame is that this information is not available from the SWPP but they will happily sell you membership to an organisation that professes to be able to mentor you in events and then award you qualifications in events but they do not have the knowledge or experience :thumbsdown:.

Mike
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Sorry Mike, I have to ask, what do you get out of being a member on TP? I mean, can see why you would be fed up at the SWPP simply based on this one post, without the rest of this thread, but the point of this place is that it is a free resource for ALL levels. Therefore there can be no expectations in terms of what you should be getting out of it, though I think its fair to say most people find there is a direct correlation between how much they take out and how much they put in. Serious question though, as an experienced pro, only prepared to offer any kind of advice on your chosen speciality at a cost [fair enough, can't argue with that, no doubt you have worked hard to get your knowledge] I wonder why you are here as there is probably little you can take and little you want to give.I apologise if this seems odd, please don't think I am in anyway having a go at you, I am really really not, am just very curious about motivations. :shrug:
 
mike weeks said:
I already do, you can see me at photomart on the 25th Feb or at Focus from 7-10th March but if you are willing to pay me then I will happily spend a lot of time here talking about event photography :thumbs:.
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Its a free forum Mike, we do it for love, there are lots of pros here in many areas that freely offer help and advice without wanting to be paid....I dont charge people for my expertise when I go on relevant forums as I enjoy helping folk, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside...

Donald Trump said:
The real shame is that this information is not available from the SWPP but they will happily sell you membership to an organisation that professes to be able to mentor you in events and then award you qualifications in events but they do not have the knowledge or experience :thumbsdown:.

Mike
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Yes, that is wrong too, maybe you should offer them your services too.

I might see you at Focus, being an exhibitor is great fun, gets you out of the house..
 
Yv said:
Sorry Mike, I have to ask, what do you get out of being a member on TP?
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Perhaps if you looked through all my postings you would see that I have freely given a good deal of advice especially about event photography - with no expectation of anything in return, but this is on an as interested and have time basis - to go beyond that is not possible as it means I am being taken away from other paying work and the money has to come from somewhere.

If you want to know what I really get out of TP and a number of other forums it is the opportunity to debunk the myths of just how easy and lucrative event photography is and help those that decide to enter events make better informed decisions and hence become more professional. There are far too many cowboys trying to make money out of photography in general who give us all a bad name and the SWPP for one has done little to raise the standards.

I certainly dont have all the answers but I have enough to be able to pass some on.

Mike
 
we're not asking for you to do it 24 hours Mike, just chip in now and again as you do now.
 
Well, the SWPP does seem to have learned one lesson, anyway: auto-renewals.

I phoned them today to say I would not be renewing when my existing membership ran out, and I was calling as I understood they automatically renewed. I was told that no, they don't automatically renew now, but wanted an email confirmation. I sent that, so we shall see whether my forum access disappears in the meantime or whether I get a renewal letter anyway come the time!
 
I notice I have had my forum access removed but as I have not had a refund and my membership runs till Oct, there are a few questions I'll be asking.
 
BouncyMelons said:
I notice I have had my forum access removed but as I have not had a refund and my membership runs till Oct, there are a few questions I'll be asking.
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As soon as I let them know of my intention not to renew my subscription (some 5 months early), I had my access rights severely curtailed. I can read the forum, but I cannot post or PM anyone. I can't even view my own profile!:shrug:

Interestingly enough, I've just had an email from them saying that "As requested by many members", they've finally got around to adding new boards to the forum for each of the "partner societies." It has taken them over 18 months to get around to this. I've seen continents move quicker!

It is a sign of poor planning that they had to wait for members to request this feature. Personally, I'd have thought it was a no-brainer and would have introduced these extra boards at the time the partner societies were launched...:bang:

Simon
 
BouncyMelons said:
I notice I have had my forum access removed but as I have not had a refund and my membership runs till Oct, there are a few questions I'll be asking.
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So they are in essence NOT providing the service that you have paid for?

A Solicitor would have a field day with that one. Breach of Contract immediately springs to kind.

The Forum is an advertised benefit of membership. They have removed this part of the Membership so a refund should be made. Simplez! :)
 
MarkyP said:
The Forum is an advertised benefit of membership.
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I can't remember where I read it, but I am sure that Phil Jones has gone on record saying that membership to the forum is a privilege, not a right. The only rights you have as a member is to use their logo and to get a moderately lousy magazine that is full of adverts,advertorials and articles about the upgrade of their in-house computers!

Simon
 
I have already been informed that they are taking forums such as mine seriously because of the decline in membership and now they are at long last are trying to rectify this. In fact it is not the Taffia that have organised this change but one of their volunteer moderators.
Personally I think that the changes are coming too late, it certainly will not stem the tide of people going to better places.

Mike
 
It is interesting to see the individual forums start up, and I can see that as soon as they did, one or two immediately started being used, so I guess there was starvation. Although it was rather amusing to see that someone managed to get the wrong of the stick and start talking about wedding work , in the event section.:shake:

Well, it is a start, but it took long enough - and through their procrastination they have given people like Mike Weeks the advantage.:thumbs:
 
Wildsnaps said:
I can't remember where I read it, but I am sure that Phil Jones has gone on record saying that membership to the forum is a privilege, not a right. The only rights you have as a member is to use their logo and to get a moderately lousy magazine that is full of adverts,advertorials and articles about the upgrade of their in-house computers!
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You forgot the lousy mentor me reports ;)

Which from the site says:

"""Our invaluable 'Mentor Me' programme enables our members to receive a one to one appraisal of their work and advice for progression"""

I never saw advice on progression :thinking: unless MMOS counts (see line 2 on SWPP home page)

well Lass, if you get a refund let me know, mail me a copy of the paper work or emails and I will have another stab at them!
 
benl said:
The Mentor Me reports are hilarious reading. I think all the mentors last took a wedding photo in about 1974.
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LOL!

I couldn't help but bring the statement back to the surface :D
:rules::rules::rules::rules::rules::rules::rules::rules::rules::rules:

So there's an events section?

is this them buckling to pressure? :thinking:
 
BarryDawsib said:
You forgot the lousy mentor me reports ;)

Which from the site says:

"""Our invaluable 'Mentor Me' programme enables our members to receive a one to one appraisal of their work and advice for progression"""
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It is clearly a mispront on their behalf - they actually meant to say 'Our un-valuable Mentor Me programme....':lol:

Simon
 
BenL, if you are who I think you are, you will be missed on the SWPP forum.

My membership runs out next month, and unfortunately I wont be re-newing, but this is due to entirely personal circumstances, and nothing to do with anything mentioned on this thread. I hope to re-join as soon as my personal circumstances change.

Each to their own I suppose! ;)
 
benl said:
Thanks, Nigel. But this forum makes a good replacement. :-)
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Yeah maybe, I do like this forum a lot. But there's something about the SWPP forum that has that Je nais c'est quoi appeal about it. Perhaps it's just me!:cuckoo: :D
 
Sounds like a posh restaurant!
 
I wonder if that in a couple of years we will be talking about another society that has ego issues, I certainly hope not.
 
From a few pages back, for those interested in the finances of the SWPP.... [removed]
 
And as said by Matty a few pages back:

I would appreciate it if the financial area of the SWPP be left out of this thread, its sod all to do with anyone here. A legitimate concern about customer service is one thing, but lets not go away from that point.
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matty said:
I wonder if that in a couple of years we will be talking about another society that has ego issues, I certainly hope not.
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As you should know, and there have been threads posted attacking the owners/mods here - when you do something like this you set yourself up for attack - the difference is what you do about it, and why people attack you in the first place. Mostly these attacks are not justified but as this thread has highlighted there are genuine issues at the SWPP. Interestingly changes have been made on the SWPP forum which I think are in part, if not wholly due to threads like this one.

Mike
 
I know I've mentioned the dreadful way in which I think that the monthly competitions are run on the SWPP site, but I've noticed something today that has got my goat (or possibly cow... more on that in a moment:lol:)

I was reading through the new forum they've created for their wildlife and nature group. Someone had started a thread asking what qualifies "Science and Nature" as opposed to "Wildlife." The guidance notes for Wildlife read
SWPP Competition Defs said:
Photographs taken of animals in their natural habitat, not in zoos or safari parks. Action shots and images that show animal behaviour in an interesting and dynamic way will usually do better than images of a static subject. Remember the rarity of your subject or how long you had to sit in a hide to get an image, are usually NOT the prime concern of the judges
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That seems to make sense to me - no problems there. Terrie Jones, the competition organiser, then came on and clarified further by saying

Terrie Jones said:
Science & Nature.
Two types of images are permitted in this category. Science images include specific images of a scientific process, weather, medicine, healthcare, chemistry, physics, astronomy, genetics, microscopy, pollution, the environment, anatomy, information technology. Nature shots do not exclude wildlife but there is a separate category specifically for wildlife entries.
Nature shots include plants, flowers, seeds, fungi, botany, farming, and agriculture.


So whilst we encourage people to enter the wildlife section some people who have taken shots of animals in captivity (but showing the animals 'natural' behaviour) they may enter them in this category
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Again, this seems fine. What left me puzzled though is how come the following shots were awarded Gold medals in the Wildlife competition:

http://www.swpp.co.uk/image_competition_oct_09/john_kennedy_wildlife_Oct_9009.jpg
http://www.swpp.co.uk/image_competition_sept_09/David_Gee_Wildlife_September.jpg

Since my membership is still valid, though they revoked my posting rights on the forum, I've email HQ to ask how it is that two shots of what are clearly domesticated animals can possibly be awarded golds in Wildlife. After all, what's the difference shooting in a zoo, safari park or farm? As yet, I've not had a reply to my email (and I am not holding my breath either!) If I do get a reply, I'll let you know.
Simon
 
mike weeks said:
As you should know, and there have been threads posted attacking the owners/mods here - when you do something like this you set yourself up for attack - the difference is what you do about it, and why people attack you in the first place. Mostly these attacks are not justified but as this thread has highlighted there are genuine issues at the SWPP. Interestingly changes have been made on the SWPP forum which I think are in part, if not wholly due to threads like this one.

Mike
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We like a little wind up now and again but ultimately everyone who visits TP make it what it is, we always remember that and its the only real piece of advice I could ever pass on to anyone running a forum.
 
Wildsnaps said:
Since my membership is still valid, though they revoked my posting rights on the forum, I've email HQ to ask how it is that two shots of what are clearly domesticated animals can possibly be awarded golds in Wildlife. After all, what's the difference shooting in a zoo, safari park or farm? As yet, I've not had a reply to my email (and I am not holding my breath either!) If I do get a reply, I'll let you know.
Simon
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They wont reply, you have asked a relevant question :bang:
 
Isn't it great that they start to make changes when threads like this in a public domain (where they are allowed to remain) point out the deficincies that have been pointed out for as long as I can remember by members.

It just appears that the impression that I always had that they didn't listen to their own membership is validated again and again. It's only when members and ex members take it outside of the strictly controlled environment that is SWPP and it starts to negatively impact on them that they pay any attention to it.
 
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