Shenanigans at the SWPP

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MarkyP said:
It would appear that the SWPP Customer Service levels have hit new lows.

I have been lead to beleive that there is a bit of an issue with the Monthly Competitions and the end of Year Awards at Convention.

To explain:

There are 34 catergories into which people can enter. In each catergory there were Gold winners last year.

The SWPP decided that 3 of the catergories would NOT receive a "Best Of" award at the Convention. The reason? The Judges didn't think there was a suitable winner.

Hang on, that's simply NOT right.

At some point in the year, a "Judge" decided that an image was of a Gold standard, yet the Judges at the Awards decided that even though it had received a Gold they didn't think the image was a Gold standard enough to have been awarded Best Of.

So either the Judge who awarded it the Gold in the first place was wrong, or the Judges at the Convention were wrong. Either way ONE of them was wrong.

The end result?

A set of photographers who all won Gold images being told "Yes it may have got a Gold but we don't think it is good enough to win anything else".

No wonder photographers are getting extremely ****ed off with the SWPP. They do all that work, go through the Monthly comp submission process, get awarded a Gold only to have this happen to them.

It is wrong in just so many ways. It's either a Gold or not a Gold, and if it is, then it has EVERY right to by looked at for the Catergory Winner.
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And the Categories that didn't get awarded:-

EVENT
Commercial
 
MarkyP said:
It would appear that the SWPP Customer Service levels have hit new lows.
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Not only is is just plain wrong the way in which they have administered this "competition", they way they dealt with the question about the results is also appalling.

A very talented event photographer who had been awarded a "gold" in the monthly competition asked why it was there was no overall winner. The reply posted on the forum, by Colin Jones, said:

Did you attend the Big L Challenge/20x16/Album Competition judging? As I am sure watching the judging process, most of these questions would of been answered.
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The photographer in question had started his post by saying that he had been unable to attend the awards ceremony. Jones' reply is rude to the point of insult and implies that a competitor has no right to ask questions unless they pay to attend the "awards" ceremony.

It is also interesting to see that the SWPP's Lifetime achievement award was presented to none other than Phil Jones who was, apparently, surprised to receive it.

The winner of the "Wedding PhotoJournalism Society Photographer of the Year" award also managed to win the "20x16 Print Competition", despite the rules for the print competition stating:

No image that receives a Merit in the 20x16 annual competition may be entered into the monthly image competition the same year.
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Of course, this is a pointless rule, since the closing date for the print competition was 8th January, well after all of the monthly competitions have been judged.


Simon
 
It gets better, somebody mentioned this thread (did not even post a link) and the thread was deleted - more censorship than China at present. Say anything against the 'Central Committee', sorry the Jones family, and such people as 'Mick the Landlord' will do everything within their power to remove any trace of it - put that much effort into photography and you would be the worlds best.

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
It gets better, somebody mentioned this thread (did not even post a link) and the thread was deleted - more censorship than China at present. Say anything against the 'Central Committee', sorry the Jones family, and such people as 'Mick the Landlord' will do everything within their power to remove any trace of it - put that much effort into photography and you would be the worlds best.

Mike
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According to CJ the tread has gone off topic. And still the questions have not been answered?
 
Why answer a question when you are a dictator, sorry director, actually right the first time. As usual it was mini-me posting the answer - fat phil was probably too busy looking at his lifetime achievement award. The reality is that it was a competition and therefore there should be a winner - not only do they not understand event photography but also the discriminate against it at their awards ceremony, makes you wonder why any event photographer would want to be part of it.

Mike
 
Captain Morgan said:
And still the questions have not been answered?
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You say that with some surprise?

It has already been well documented that the SWPP Management do not like members asking serching questions. It is this approach that merely makes matters worse as everyone wonders what they are hiding.

A simple answer to a simple question will be received with respect instead of frustration.

This is one of the things that I was hoping they would correct swiftly after convention. Looks like they have elected not to do so.

A pity, as continued avoidance of members questions will simply make people think they have something to hide.
 
swanseamale47 said:
Interesting, I notice a name know to me in there whos a wedding photographer.
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Update to my post above the tog I know wasn't aware he was listed as a member, and hasn't actually joined the school and event thingy although he is a member of the swpp, it seems his name was added because he has done events (and presumably to "pad" out the number of togs listed) at this stage I'm not sure what he will do about it..
 
Some friends of mine had a similar problem with another business (not photography based, a Camera shop) and what they did was basically get everyone to create a single page on their website which were all linked into each other for SEO and were heavily publicised.

The end result?

When you did a search on Google for the camera shop, not only did they not appear until Page 2 but EVERY website that appeared on Page 1 was a negative page detailing just how bad the Customer service had been from this company.

Ended up with the camera shop changing it's ways and stopping ripping people off at which point the web pages were taken down. Had they of continued, then they more than likely would have gone out of business. The negative advertising meant customers seaching for them on search engines were seeing reasons NOT to use them before the Companys own blurb why you should use them. They nearly went out of business.

Amazing what the power of the t'interweb can do :)
 
Think many now will be shaking their heads at the swpp and calling them a lost cause.
The latest actions seem to reinforce the common held conception of "we will do what we want and there's nothing you can do about it".

Its odd I should be reading this but I was talking to the salesman I get my frames from, and we got onto the subject of complaints and problems with service, and we mutually agreed that rather then let people go off saying "what a **** company" we should keep the problem in house and work it out and let the consumers know that!

deal with the problem and stop a bad rumour that will come back and bite you.

And that is a Market stall trader, 20 years making frames in his shed and he's got a good reputation because he controls the way his business is perceived by dealing with the problem rather then silencing it.
 
I loved the presentation by the "Photojournalist wedding photographer of the year" He went through his album with a hilarious commentary along the lines of "I just happened to by lying on the floor outside the venue with the right lens on the camera when the Bride ran out and made this stunning pose" He freely admits that he does not shoot photojournalistically but that his images are probably 80% posed. Nice judging.
 
BouncyMelons said:
I loved the presentation by the "Photojournalist wedding photographer of the year" He went through his album with a hilarious commentary along the lines of "I just happened to by lying on the floor outside the venue with the right lens on the camera when the Bride ran out and made this stunning pose" He freely admits that he does not shoot photojournalistically but that his images are probably 80% posed. Nice judging.
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Hi Ali.
I shoot weddings in a traditional way, but often get asked to do some PJ shots. I pose/direct these shots. Isn't that what a lot of us do? ;)

I think in wedding photography PJ shots for a lot of us should be called in the style of Photo Journalism. :)

Of course there are some proper PJ photographers who are able to anticipate
and grab the crucial shots, unfortunately I'm not one of them. :'(

On a personal level, providing it's in the style of photojournalism, than I'm OK with that. For a News story, then that is a different kettle of fish. Although, I have been asked to open the door to customers (aka my staff), whilst being filmed. and greet them in to my pub for a BBC news story. They, (The BBC) came early...about an hour before I was due to open.

I don't even know who won PJ Wedding Photographer of the Year, now going to give it a look.
 
Jerry Ghionis wasn't it - something of a surprise I have to admit. He's not known as PJ.

If you pose or direct, it's not PJ. Aside from around 5-8 formals per wedding I don't pose or direct at all.
 
The problem as I see it now is if I was an event specialist what would be the point of joining the event section if it's full of wedding and portrait photographer "padding" out the numbers, my listing would be lost in the reams of people who may not really do events in the real world, but who may have put they would on a form somewhere.
 
swanseamale47 said:
The problem as I see it now is if I was an event specialist what would be the point of joining the event section if it's full of wedding and portrait photographer "padding" out the numbers, my listing would be lost in the reams of people who may not really do events in the real world, but who may have put they would on a form somewhere.
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Good point! because now it is a list of Photographers who take photo's at Events unless of course they are all School photographers as well because it is the Society of School & Event Photographers (sorry International).
 
Radiohead said:
Jerry Ghionis wasn't it - something of a surprise I have to admit. He's not known as PJ.

If you pose or direct, it's not PJ. Aside from around 5-8 formals per wedding I don't pose or direct at all.
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Yep, he had us all in stitches on Monday running through the album with that commentary. "I just happended to be hanging about outside the bathroom when the Bride decided to lean in a provocative manner against a mirror which just happened to be perfectly positioned to make the most of the light streaming through the skylight"

Jeff Ascough and Duncan Kerridge are PJ wedding photographers. Jerry, brilliant though he is, directs most of his. He was extremely good natured about it though and just got everyone laughing.
 
Wildsnaps said:
.
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It is also interesting to see that the SWPP's Lifetime achievement award was presented to none other than Phil Jones who was, apparently, surprised to receive it.
.
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I've been dipping into this thread on and off for a while, in a similar way to how you watch one episode of eastbenders or corrie once every six months to keep up with it, and the above quote seems to encapsulate so much that is so very wrong with the swpp.

What I can't understand is how any business person would wish to be associated with such a grouping. Why does the swpp continue to have a membership (outside of the Family, of course)?
 
I think that, for some, it still represents value for money and if that is the only space you inhabit you are not likely to know much about the negative perception. After all, anything even remotely negative is censored so the membership is kept blissfully unaware unless they happen to wander off elsewhere.
 
Yes there is a saga feel to this thread, I wonder if it is now long enough to be edited down, and put into volumes!!

I noticed that the thread had slipped off the front page, and assumed that it had exhausted itself, but back up it sprang. The shame here is that there is obviously quite a great deal of frustration and fascination within the topic, and yet apart from the thread carrying on, not a great deal happens.

One point that has been raised here recently is the way that the SWPP is treating Event Photography, and it is an area that I have regular dealings with through my work. I speak to alot of event guys, and I do think it is very sad that the SWPP seem so very dismissive of the profession.

I know that quite a number of well known Event Photographers ( Mike Weeks in particular), have tried very hard to get them (SWPP) , to understand it.

No matter what some people may think , Event guys are in alot of cases taking what are effectively 'portraits'. Now given that the first 'P' in SWPP stands for Portrait, you would have thought that this would have sunk in, and from that point , they would have said, " Hey , let's embrace this stuff ".

Again, the angle here is one of encouragement, not harsh criticism.
 
Interestingly enough I have just noticed up on the SWPP forum someone asking advice on doing an event, fortunately there were two guys on to help help , one of them a TP user ( Well done Ian B).

It was a good example of the general lack of awareness of the work, and it was sad to see that the person who had posted was somewhat daunted by the thought of what she would need, and felt the best thing would be to hand it over to someone who knew what they were doing.
 
MARK AMIES said:
Interestingly enough I have just noticed up on the SWPP forum someone asking advice on doing an event, fortunately there were two guys on to help help , one of them a TP user ( Well done Ian B).

It was a good example of the general lack of awareness of the work, and it was sad to see that the person who had posted was somewhat daunted by the thought of what she would need, and felt the best thing would be to hand it over to someone who knew what they were doing.
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I wonder if she's listed in the event photography listings?
 
I wonder who the other 2 people are who offered to do the job anominously.
If they are Wedding togs who are 'on the square' then game over.:shrug:
If they are genuine Event Photographers then all is fair.
 
As I said , one uses this forum. I think they were proffering help and advice.
 
yes mike, tell them all about talk photography ;)
 
mike weeks said:
Strangely TP has never come up in a conversation I have had as the font of wisdom for Event Photography (much like the SWPP forum :bonk:) - now if it was called Talk Event Photography things might be different.

Mike
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we have the space mike, plenty of room for an event section, seems like a sensible thing to have here...Plenty of event togs here, no reason why not at all....
 
[MODE] /JD from Scrubs staring up to left hand corner of sky/


....hmmmm....an event photography section with proper advice from guys like Mike and real life experiences and stories, the good, bad and downright ugly....


...Go ON Mike, you KNOW you want to ask Matty for it really :D

[/MODE]


Sorry, getting all odd there for a minute. ;)
 
The thing that has become very apparent is that Talk Photography is so very accessable to everyone at every level - so it really is a winner from that point of view.

- I bet I get called a creep now.
 
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