Shenanigans at the SWPP

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You see, I thought in morning - " I should make some sarnies, cos I am likely to get stung", but them I thought " Nah, I mean it can't be really expensive, fiver?"

Next time, Sarnies, crisps, flask. Look like a real 'erbert , but at least I won't be done up like a prize hallibut.
 
The crisps were Welsh............. ( I will wait for Mike & Co to pick up on this...)
 
when I do shows now i always take sarnies, stop at asda and buy some subrolls or similar. First time exhibitors dont know whats going on and think your mad, but at least you have cash left at the end of the show!
 
Well I resigned from the SWPP (SINWP) last week, just got a letter to confirm resignation and asking for membership card and certificates back... That will not happen until they remove me from their listing which we know will not happen. I did not go to the trade show even though I had 3 passes....

The reason I gave for resigning was that the Societies offered nothing for Wildlife & Nature Photographers and this is true they are still Wedding and Studio photography driven even though they have set up other societies within SWPP....
 
Had a quick look at SINWP, and there appears to only be about 18 members.
 
MARK AMIES said:
Had a quick look at SINWP, and there appears to only be about 18 members.
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Looks like someone can't count! http://sinwp.com/members/

It is interesting to note the tool-tip that pops up when you mouse over a "bold" member: they are show as being "Qualified Nature and Wildlife Photographer", even if their qualification is in a different discipline!:cuckoo:

Simon
 
Arkady said:
£2.25 for a shaggin coke???

I only pay $0.50 and I'm on the dark side of the moon...
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Yup, but I can see that's funded by the yanks, so that's $0.50 for a bucket of coke and free refills. You'll soon end up an extra size or two :D
 
Lots of good reports coming back from fellow members, but not so much on here. The trade fair seems to be getting a bit of stick, however this is just a part of the convention. Anyone go to any master classes, seminars etc??

As for rip off prices with food and drink etc. I learnt this from a much younger age...go to London and expect to be charged OTT for this,,,common Knowledge as far as I'm concerned, wherever you go to in London. (Unfortunately!)

Personally, I'm ****e d off I was unable to go. Whatever may be wrong with the SWPP, there are some great members, some I've met and others I haven't, and hope to some day.

Despite the 'Shenanigans at the SWPP' I bet that the OP and others, such as Mark, Mike, Barry and others agree that the 'members' who regulary post on the SWPP forum are a friendly bunch and aim for professionlism. Yes we all know what is wrong with the SWPP, and acknowledge they need to change a few things, but on the whole, it's really not that bad. (Well, admittedly, if you are a Wedding or Portrait Photographer ;) )

Even if you hate the Jones' for whatever reason, you've got to give them some credit for putting on an event like their convention every January.

I am hacked off that I was unable to attend, but it seems here that some of the SWPP's biggest critics attended? If you don't like the SWPP, why go?

Now going to get my Tin Hat and Coat!:D
 
Byker28i said:
Yup, but I can see that's funded by the yanks, so that's $0.50 for a bucket of coke and free refills. You'll soon end up an extra size or two :D
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oo not so - we have the EFI/NAAFI to thanks for this - all canned beverages, chocolate and biscuits are sold at wholesale-cost minus VAT. A 'slab' of 24 cans costs me $12...
Other stuff like electrical goods, we appear to pay over the odds on...it's still VAT-free, but NAAFI add an 'Operational Surcharge' which seems to make up the difference.
Trouble is that's all they sell - TV's, iPods, chocolate, biscuits and cans of pop...and t-shirts - though no long-sleeved thermal tps which we could all do with right now...lol
In that case it is cheaper to go to a US AAFES (PX) shop for iPods and similar.
There are currently three in Bastion and more will be built soon when the camp trebles in size this year to accommodate two more US Marine Expeditionary Combat Teams, bringing USMC total strength up to 2x Marine Expeditionary Brigades. At that point, Camp Bastion will become a US base, not British, as they'll outnumber us there 10 to 1.
Most expensive in-theatre 'welfare' shops are the Danish PXs down in Bastion - over double the price of the other Nationalities' as they still pay sales tax on everything...
Needless to say, the Danes are quite happy to shop in the UK and US shops...lol
 
NigelPaul said:
Lots of good reports coming back from fellow members, but not so much on here. The trade fair seems to be getting a bit of stick, however this is just a part of the convention. Anyone go to any master classes, seminars etc??

As for rip off prices with food and drink etc. I learnt this from a much younger age...go to London and expect to be charged OTT for this,,,common Knowledge as far as I'm concerned, wherever you go to in London. (Unfortunately!)

Personally, I'm ****e d off I was unable to go. Whatever may be wrong with the SWPP, there are some great members, some I've met and others I haven't, and hope to some day.

Despite the 'Shenanigans at the SWPP' I bet that the OP and others, such as Mark, Mike, Barry and others agree that the 'members' who regulary post on the SWPP forum are a friendly bunch and aim for professionlism. Yes we all know what is wrong with the SWPP, and acknowledge they need to change a few things, but on the whole, it's really not that bad. (Well, admittedly, if you are a Wedding or Portrait Photographer ;) )

Even if you hate the Jones' for whatever reason, you've got to give them some credit for putting on an event like their convention every January.

I am hacked off that I was unable to attend, but it seems here that some of the SWPP's biggest critics attended? If you don't like the SWPP, why go?

Now going to get my Tin Hat and Coat!:D
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Hello Nigel, a few fair points. Your final point, it isn't neccesarily a case of 'not liking' the SWPP, it probably is a case of having a discussion about the way the SWPP operates ,and highlighting a few things that may seem unfair or irregular. From my point of view, I attended the Trade show, because I am with a trade exhibitor.

I would also say that in terms of giving praise to The SWPP for putting on the convention - yes great , but without being too cynical it does bring in money for them - it is not free to go along , and it is not free to exhibit.

Picky maybe, but I wanted to say it. Look, I don't want to get involved in a wrecking squad, the SWPP quite obviously fulfils and important role, and the sheer number of people who join it is proof. However I do think that they would do well to listen and act on a great many of the criticisms thay hav been recieving.

Tin hat on.!
 
Nigel,

I think that some clarification is needed. I dont hate the SWPP, never have done, never will. I would rejoin today if the Management would start listening to it's members who are it's customers.

I attended Convention because I have bought my tickets BEFORE I left, and there was no way I was just going to throw the money away by not going.

This thread isn't about hating the SWPP, this thread is about publicising what it does right, and what it does wrong.

The idea of the SWPP as an organisation is a good one and if run properly could be a HUGE benefit to the industry and to aspiring and pro photographers. Unfortunately, looking at the posts both here and on other Forums, the management of the SWPP don't give a monkeys about the Members, just how much money they can part from them.

My final comment is very simple:

Juliet Jones (an owner of the SWPP) awarded her Husband, Phil Jones (the other owner of the SWPP) a Lifetime Achievement Award.

Congratulations Phil!

I am also proud to announce that upon my return to Leeds, my wife had also arranged for my own company to award me a Lifetime Acheivement Award for the "Pursuit of Honesty, Integrity and Openess".

See where I'm going with this?

'Nuff said :)
 
NigelPaul said:
Despite the 'Shenanigans at the SWPP' I bet that the OP and others, such as Mark, Mike, Barry and others agree that the 'members' who regulary post on the SWPP forum are a friendly bunch and aim for professionlism.
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Essentially yes but there are so guaranteed thread spoilers and some really nasty members who will personally attack you if they deem your thread in any shape or form anti SWPP - if you complain about their behaviour to the owners of the SWPP you will get told that those are senior members.

Yes it is a great club if you are part of the in crowd. Like Mark I would still be a member because I believe change has to come from within and that will only happen when the management listen to the members.

As to the lifetime achievement award, was that for late night harrasment phone calls, base abuse, pie eating or all three - certainly not for endeavours to improve the photographic community - what a joke, like the recipient.

Mike
 
MarkyP said:
Nigel,

I am also proud to announce that upon my return to Leeds, my wife had also arranged for my own company to award me a Lifetime Acheivement Award for the "Pursuit of Honesty, Integrity and Openess".

See where I'm going with this?

'Nuff said :)
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Is there Beer and a buffet on? if so whens the show start :lol:
 
Reference the Trade Show we must not forget that the Exhibitors pay, from what in the present economic climate is a dwindling budget, to be there. They have to pay accommodation at full rate, meals, transport etc,etc. Attending an exhibition is not cheap; I know having spent £60k for my full time employer on one exhibition in 2009.

So you will only get exhibitors who believe that they will profit from attending or in the case of Nikon and Cannon, have to be seen to be there.

So for example: If I was selling equipment specifically for nature and wildlife photographers would I attend the SWPP/BPPA show - I wouldn't. If I was selling Event Equipment I might have attended to take a punt on Wedding Tog's branching out into Events but only if I was given at least 1 if not 2 seminar sessions.
If I was organising an exhibition I would probably offer certain companies who were prepared to run seminars either reduced price or free stand space. It is cheaper than paying for lecturers.

The Trade show is put on for some specific reasons.
1, To generate income to off set other costs
2, To provide something between seminars for delegates
3, To bring non- members to the event in the aspiration that they will either. a) Join. b) attend next year as delegates or c) re-visit the show next year.

This is not a Swampy bash, this is true of any trade show linked to a convention.
As for Focus, 2 people make money out of that. The NEC and the Organisers.

Ian
 
Pete W said:
Well I resigned from the SWPP (SINWP) last week, just got a letter to confirm resignation and asking for membership card and certificates back... That will not happen until they remove me from their listing which we know will not happen.
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You actually got a response? wow!
What about a refund?
 
Interestingly enough, the thread that Barry started up on SWPP's forum ,before he left, had occupied the front page of their General section since he posted it. That posting had given a link to this thread on this forum.
I noticed the posting gradual slip down , and it is no longer on the front page - so , out of sight, out of mind.

The initial responses showed some promise, however it soon got watered down and diverted onto other banal niceities, as can often happen.
 
I have been told this morning that one individual won 2 awards at the Awards Ceremony with the same image.

As far as I am aware, this is against the rules and I for one, am looking forward to the winning images being published so we can all make our own minds up.
 
MarkyP said:
I have been told this morning that one individual won 2 awards at the Awards Ceremony with the same image.

As far as I am aware, this is against the rules and I for one, am looking forward to the winning images being published so we can all make our own minds up.
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Mark,
For sure if this is the case then there will be a host of questions on the bppa forum questioning the rules.
 
Yes I went yesterday to see Jerry Ghionis and it was fab. :)

Part of my balanced view of this company means that I say with honesty that he was utterly brilliant and would not have been there BUT for the SWPP so I applaud that part while criticising another. That's all part of an honest feedback of a company to whom I pay money.

The trade show was appauling though because it was not there! Anyone attending just on the Monday got no trade show at all. I know it's probably a lot to ask the trade to stay on but then the convention should have been timed to finish on the Sunday night. The two didn;t marry up which was a shame, especially for the £600+ attendees yesterday.

Toodle pip :)
 
We were interested in the business school, and have previously found the trade fair to be ok. However, then we decided to go to WPPI instead. It may not be good for sourcing suppliers but on the plus side it's in vegas, so swings & roundabouts :lol:

A
 
Wildsnaps said:
Looks like someone can't count! http://sinwp.com/members/

It is interesting to note the tool-tip that pops up when you mouse over a "bold" member: they are show as being "Qualified Nature and Wildlife Photographer", even if their qualification is in a different discipline!:cuckoo:

Simon
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If you go by these lists I am also a member of SISEP and too says I am qualified Event photographer, perhaps I should ask for my certificate :lol:
 
paulbrown said:
If you go by these lists I am also a member of SISEP and too says I am qualified Event photographer, perhaps I should ask for my certificate :lol:
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I genuinely hope that now convention is over that the Management of the SWPP take a deep deep breath, have a meeting in Rhyl and have a chat about the future of the SWPP.

I also genuinely hope that they realise that we are not out to destroy them, not out to tell them how to run their business, not out to ridicule them nor out to tell Members to leave.

I have lost count of the times that over the week of the SWPP convention I have told people "Don't leave if you get value for money for your £99". This has thrown a lot of people as they thought that when they met me in person, they would find a person who was angry with the SWPP. When they realised that I wasn't and that my only intention was for improvement, for clarity, for openess and most of all to listen to the Members, they realised that they had misjudged me.

2010 can be the start of a bright new future for the SWPP if they choose to make it happen, I only hope they take the opportunity to not only attract new Members who have yet to see what really goes on AFTER they join, but also retain old members by changing the things that are causing so many problems and issues.

After all, it is the Members that make the SWPP what it is and the constant drip drip of quality, skilled, knowledgable Members leaving can, and will, dilute the organisation.

Image what would happen right now if the MPA, just to use one example, was to open it's doors to everyone, part time, full time, amateur and professional alike.

Bet the Membership of the SWPP would be affected in a big way.

Just my musings.
 
paulbrown said:
If you go by these lists I am also a member of SISEP and too says I am qualified Event photographer, perhaps I should ask for my certificate :lol:
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Now that is interesting , I was not aware that there was actually a qualification for Event Photography.

:cuckoo:
 
MARK AMIES said:
Now that is interesting , I was not aware that there was actually a qualification for Event Photography.

:cuckoo:
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And who exactly is going to Judge event photographers in the SWPP?

I am not aware of anyone who works within that genre and has the pre-requisite knowledge or experience to Mentor or judge panel submissions for event photographers.

Maybe I am wrong.

I know there are people qualified to judge/mentor in weddings, portraits etc but as to events, I have no idea.

I'm sure someone will bob on and correct me.
 
In the five years of dealing with event photographers I have never heard of any formal or otherwise qualification in Event Photography.

From what I have seen or heard there is not a great deal of understanding of event photography within SWPP ( and I don't mean it's members).

The last time I was aware of someone winning an award at SWPP for Event work , the image was not a classic event image.
 
I went to look at SISEP , the section of SWPP for Event Photographers. I went and looked at the member list - it is enormous.

I wonder really if these are all event photographers , or if they are simply photographers who could do events if asked? ( subtle difference ).

I look at the page talking about 'choosing an event photographer' , and find it is rather thin in detail-

http://sisep.net/choosing_event_photographer.htm
 
MARK AMIES said:
I went to look at SISEP , the section of SWPP for Event Photographers. I went and looked at the member list - it is enormous.

I wonder really if these are all event photographers , or if they are simply photographers who could do events if asked? ( subtle difference ).

I look at the page talking about 'choosing an event photographer' , and find it is rather thin in detail-

http://sisep.net/choosing_event_photographer.htm
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It would appear that some members have been listed on there without their knowledge or permission. I know of at least one member who is ever so slightly annoyed that his details have been used.

SWPP using photographers details to enhance SEO me thinks and it's a bit naughty.
 
The SWPP contacted quite a number of people that listed events as one of their forms of photography and offered them free membership for a year when they started all those mickey mouse societies. They obviously wanted it to look like they had members to encourage others to think it was worthwhile to join - who would want to join a society with no members?

Making people members without their permission has the same effect.

They gave out nothing new with the new societies and still dont - there is no content and there never has been, it was an attempt at making money and was just smoke and mirrors - but some of us can see right through it.

Mike
 
Interesting, I notice a name know to me in there whos a wedding photographer.
 
If the above points are correct, then I think it is very misleading. For my money the list of members of SISEP does not reflect what I know of the active Event Photographers in the UK.

Futhermore, given the general level of knowledge and true understanding of Event Photography withing the SWPP, it does look very strange. I see now specific discussion section in SWPP forum for Event work, and whenever it does come up it is often treated with a level of quiet contempt. There certainly is no active discussion.

This is a great shame. Just like Mark P, I say these things , not to unduly attack SWPP, but to hope that they could do more with it , for the benefit of their members, many of whom are genuinely interested in this kind of work.
 
Hey there guys and gals. Just thought I would say a HUGE thank you to all of you who attended the Help for Heroes Events where to datye I can account for a little over £1,300.00 raised. I gather from numerous reports that the 'spoiler' event really wasn't much cop anyway so no real harm done and our boys on the front lines benefit after all.

I was indeed banned from the event but as my partner was working with our sponsor in the Trade Show I did in fact enter the bar at the Novotel and found a quiet corner as it was not my intention to spoil anything for anyone. I was simply there to collect my partner and escort her back to our Hotel. I couldn't find a small hand bell and did not fancy shouting 'unclean' either. Again no harm done.

I spent a few minutes talking to a dear friend before others came to join me and welcome me in friendship and professionalism as was right to do. So again to those dear friends a big thank you for not making me feel like the ostracised leper I was intended to be. I was indeed spotted there and was met with a foul glance but as the Novotel bar is public access and I did not say one crossed word about Swampy there was no reason to eject me although I am quite sure that miffed a few!

Upwards and onwards. I too have no gripe with the Swampy membership as I quite frankly have better things to do. But I will say it was totally appalling behaviour to 'intimidate and threaten' a cherished sponsor of mine. It seems some cannot separate personal from professional and I am clearly perceived as some massive threat. How very sad.
 
It would appear that the SWPP Customer Service levels have hit new lows.

I have been lead to beleive that there is a bit of an issue with the Monthly Competitions and the end of Year Awards at Convention.

To explain:

There are 34 catergories into which people can enter. In each catergory there were Gold winners last year.

The SWPP decided that 3 of the catergories would NOT receive a "Best Of" award at the Convention. The reason? The Judges didn't think there was a suitable winner.

Hang on, that's simply NOT right.

At some point in the year, a "Judge" decided that an image was of a Gold standard, yet the Judges at the Awards decided that even though it had received a Gold they didn't think the image was a Gold standard enough to have been awarded Best Of.

So either the Judge who awarded it the Gold in the first place was wrong, or the Judges at the Convention were wrong. Either way ONE of them was wrong.

The end result?

A set of photographers who all won Gold images being told "Yes it may have got a Gold but we don't think it is good enough to win anything else".

No wonder photographers are getting extremely ****ed off with the SWPP. They do all that work, go through the Monthly comp submission process, get awarded a Gold only to have this happen to them.

It is wrong in just so many ways. It's either a Gold or not a Gold, and if it is, then it has EVERY right to by looked at for the Catergory Winner.
 
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