Shenanigans at the SWPP

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AliB said:
Close please Marc, think it's run it's course.
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If I joined the SWPP Alison, how long do you reckon i`d last?...........:naughty:
 
AliB said:
I have my ticket for a seminar in January and I'm still going. As DiddyDave has said in the past, the annual convention is actually a very good event with world class speakers and access to that CAN be worth the £99. I try to remain balanced about it and so long as people have some knowledge of the good bad and ugly then they are free to spend their hard earned where they think they will get best value.
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Just remember your £99 doesn't get you into the Convention. You still have to pay over and above your annual subscription fee if you want to go see the "Names" and at 75 quid per seminar ticket, it can be quite an expensive thing.
 
Oh and to who ever it was that pointed out my spelling mistake on my blog regarding the title of the SWPP - thank you.

I was rather tired when I wrote it but have corrected it - don't want the SWPP suing me for getting their name wrong :)
 
Any negative threads are deleted from the SWPP forum......

Remember SWPP is a Company so therefore you have to tow the company line.....
 
Pete W said:
Any negative threads are deleted from the SWPP forum......

Remember SWPP is a Company so therefore you have to tow the company line.....
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Should read............

Remember SWPP is a Company so therefore you have to tow the company line..... or you are out.

Which is quite amazing considering you are a Member not an Employee.

Pay your £99 and shut up :)
 
MarkyP said:
Just remember your £99 doesn't get you into the Convention. You still have to pay over and above your annual subscription fee if you want to go see the "Names" and at 75 quid per seminar ticket, it can be quite an expensive thing.
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Good point but you can't go at all unless you are a member :thumbs:

I'm going to see Jerry Ghionis speak which I am looking forward to but it IS a costly day out. £85 for the ticket, and another £130 in travel and hotel expenses and a few more squids on dinner. Thank goodness I only do that once every couple of years!

One SWPP member is having to sell all her tickets on the forum because she can no longer attend. SWPP would not refund her tickets even with a couple of months notice so she is now trying to recoup......£520 in tickets. OUCH!
 
Ah I stand corrected then I thought it was members only. How silly of me when there is more money to be made ;)
 
That's going to be interesting :)

Look forward to meeting you!
 
Maybe it is time for some like minded members to set up, a non profit, organisation of there own
 
There are already plenty of other ones out there Keith.

If you are press or commercial there are tons and then there is BIPP and MPA.........

The amount of time it would take would mean it would have to be pretty unique and I personally think most people can find a comfy seat with an existing org if they are minded to.
 
BIPP is good - I'm a member: all Army Togs are as we qualify by dint of the work we do to qualify during the 6-month Career Training Course - most go on to advanced levels 'just cause'... Most of us are also Members of the RPS, plus a few are Fellows as well...
It provides something for us to work towards as our 'day-jobs' rarely induce us to really push the boat out intellectually or artistically...
 
AliB said:
Mark Pearson DID resign rather than SWPP expel him but they also cancelled the memberships of his wife and another photographer who works with him.
.
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Hi everyone

I woud just like to urge a note of caution when making comments about the SWPP.

The SWPP cancelled the membership of the others at Mark's own request (for a full explanation see Mark's blog)

Also just to make you aware, The SWPP have said that they DO NOT read Personal Messages, so if you are claiming otherwise you need to be certain of your evidence.

These comments, and others which claim that members are kicked out for not towing the line, may not be true.

When making such comments please be aware that you are presenting the SWPP in a light that may not be based in fact; furthermore you may also be making libelous staments

God bless
Dave
 
Dave Routledge said:
Hi everyone

I woud just like to urge a note of caution when making comments about the SWPP.

The SWPP cancelled the membership of the others at Mark's own request (for a full explanation see Mark's blog)

Also just to make you aware, The SWPP have said that they DO NOT read Personal Messages, so if you are claiming otherwise you need to be certain of your evidence.

These comments, and others which claim that members are kicked out for not towing the line, may not be true.

When making such comments please be aware that you are presenting the SWPP in a light that may not be based in fact; furthermore you may also be making libelous staments

God bless
Dave
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I suggest the SWPP keep their policing to their own forums please. We don't need their plants here.
 
Which is why I have tried to be fair and balanced Dave, I have pointed out benefits of membership and made it clear that these are my personal experiences of my membership.

As far as I am aware I can't cancel someone elses membership?
I won't make any further comment on that one because I know that legal advice is being sought on the contractual detail so I think it's best to refrain.

As for libel I think I am at liberty to voice some of the concerns I have already voiced to SWPP and received no reply. I have requested explanations of the anomolies that I have seen in judging on the SWPP forum and been completely ignored. I have brought up the process employed in judging and commented that in my opinion it is less that robust and does not stand scrutiny and again, been ignored.

SWPP have had ample opportunity to answer the questions I have personally asked and I am simply stating that these are my experiences.

Thank you for your concern. :)
 
Hi Radiohead (sorry I don't know your first name)

I am not a plant and nor I am policing anything. I would also like to make it clear that I have not been asked to comment here by the SWPP, I am just concerned that people may be making false statements about them.

I have joined herebecuse I know the benefits that forums can bring.

God bless
Dave
 
You'll excuse my cynicism Dave. A quick Google shows me you're very active within the SWPP and here you are, first post, warning people about libel.

My first name is Guy, and my site is in my signature.
 
Dave Routledge said:
Hi Radiohead (sorry I don't know your first name)

I am not a plant and nor I am policing anything. I would also like to make it clear that I have not been asked to comment here by the SWPP, I am just concerned that people may be making false statements about them.

I have joined herebecuse I know the benefits that forums can bring.

God bless
Dave
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If you know anything about forums Dave you will know that forum members, mods and admin are always very dubious about new members who immediately start to warn people and throw their weight about.

Before you whole heatedly defend the SWPP I suggest you initially google "problems with the SWPP" etc etc and see how many people they have fallen out with over the years for exactly the reasons being mentioned on this thread.

stew
 
I appreciate the coment Dave and perhaps I should take the step of clarifying.

I have read on forums, and other media, rather than experienced some of the allegations made against SWPP. I have seen comments by other members regarding some of the "alleged" incidents. And the amount I have read has given me concerns.

I have however personally witnessed some of the abusive phone calls made to a fellow member regarding setting up a North West Meet.

So forgive me when I read of other members being treated in a similar fashion.

I hope that goes some way to clarifying for you :)
 
My points of view regarding the SWPP have already been publicised via my blog so I won't re-light that fire.

Dave, I know you from the SWPP Forum and I know you to be a genuine person.

What I would like to say to you is simple: There are currently, many flaws with the SWPP system. You yourself know I have been a campaigner for these flaws to be addressed. Yes, they looked at the Mentor Me system (which still does have it's issues) but on the whole they have either totally ignored the Members, or made the right noises to quieten people down.

No matter what you think, or say - they do not treat their fee paying members in the best possible way.
 
MarkyP said:
No matter what you think, or say - they do not treat their fee paying members in the best possible way.
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And that is the one and only relevant point here and the sole reason I wrote the post.

As photographers we want the best possible value from any organisation or society we join. I have tried to point out that there are benefits to membership but also that I hold grave concerns about the processes employed by the society. Processes that I do believe are much better out in the open where people can make up their own mind about membership than the censored version that you see each time you log on to SWPP.
 
Dave Routledge said:
I woud just like to urge a note of caution when making comments about the SWPP.
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Thanks for the warning, Dave. After all, I'd hate to think that I would get into trouble for telling the truth about my experiences with the SWPP.

Whilst I fully appreciate that not everyone has had the same experience in their dealings with the management and membership of that company, you must also be aware that not everyone supports your point of view either.

There are members here that, in the past, have been very vocal in their defence of the SWPP, only to find out later that those people who were 'knocking' the SWPP were indeed right.

I would also like to add a personal note that I take a great deal of offence that you sign each of your messages both here and on SWPP 'God Bless Dave'. Why on earth should some fictional character bless anyone?

Sauron take you Sir!:lol:

Simon
 
I guess htis thread is getting an airing on the swpp forum ;);)
 
Wildsnaps said:
I would also like to add a personal note that I take a great deal of offence that you sign each of your messages both here and on SWPP 'God Bless Dave'. Why on earth should some fictional character bless anyone?
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No problem using a character from christian mythology in a signature line!


Steve.
 
Thank you all for your comments

I apologise for not having done so yet but I will properly introduce myself on the appropriate part of the forum soon, I promise.

I am not throwing my weight about, I don't have any to throw about. I am just really concerned at the level crticism that the SWPP has received. I am a member and am fully aware of the issues that have been raised, having read them as they have arisen on the forum. I am quite happy for anyone to share their experiences, but outright accusations that are not based in FACT should be avoided. I deliberately couched my language with ifs and maybes; I am only urging caution.

I am not accusing anyone of libel, just warning aginst the possibility of it.

Guy: I am only warning people about libel, because they may be commiting it which could be potentially damaging for them. I was referring in particular to the comment about reading people's personal messages, this may or may not be true, but the SWPP have categorically denied this, so people need be careful what they say. I also do not think it is good for photography as a whole to have this public "attack" on one of its leading organisations.

I speak here as a member of the global fellowship of photographers who wants photography to be the best it can be


God bless
Dave
 
Dave Routledge said:
Guy: I am only warning people about libel, because they may be commiting it which could be potentially damaging for them. I was referring in particular to the comment about reading people's personal messages, this may or may not be true, but the SWPP have categorically denied this, so people need be careful what they say. I also do not think it is good for photography as a whole to have this public "attack" on one of its leading organisations.

I speak here as a member of the global fellowship of photographers who wants photography to be the best it can be


God bless
Dave
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If it's happened to anyone they'll be able to show it pretty easily.

I, on the other hand, think that if the SWPP are suppressing this debate on their own forums then they can expect it to take place elsewhere. They might not like it, but that's tough really.

And I personally don't think they are a leading organisation - not when quality takes second place to that £99 fee.
 
I'm going to the convention on the 17th January. Been sent a load of literature. Show pass arrived yesterday. Must have cost a fortune in post what I've been sent and I'm not even a member!!
 
Dave Routledge said:
I also do not think it is good for photography as a whole to have this public "attack" on one of its leading organisations.
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What rot! It is only the SWPP's own publicity department that believes it is one of the "leading" organisations. It is a commercial organisation that only has its own best interests at heart - not the interests of its customers.

Are you saying that it people should not be able to post their views of their interactions with a company, just because you think that they are a "leading organisation?"

Perhaps we should use the same approach with which ever party leads a country- after all, surely it is bad for moral to complain about our leaders?


Simon
 
I'm afraid that if I receive poor customer service from any of my service providers I'm going to point it out same as if I receive good customer service.

I have hopefully clarified the situation regarding what I have read elsewhere and if the SWPP confirm that they do not read PM's (just remove any content they dont' like automatically) then that's great, thanks for clearing that one up.
 
The SWPP policy is, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, they have a filter in place that was initially used to filter out swear words.

It would appear that they have used the technology at their disposal to also remove any rival organisations name so Members, in the privacy of their own pm's, using a service that they pay for, within an organisation that they pay a fee to subscribe to can not have an adult discussion and about a rival Society or organisation without that rival Society or Organisation coming up as ***********

So, please do explain to me how that can be deemed "Good Customer Service"?


Addition to original message which remains unchanged:

Now if this is NOT the case then if a Representative from the SWPP would like to pop on here and offer an explanation, i'm sure that both Members and Non SWPP members would really appreciate the opportunity to find out the facts. I have always expressed my desire to have an open, adult dialogue with the SWPP. Unfortunately all my attempts have fallen on deaf ears.
 
Hello Mark. ;-)

No Smileys on the quick reply thing ma jig!
 
So why do people join the SWPP? Is it because it's the only organisation that allows you to use it's logo, without you having to prove yourself?

Personally, that's the very reason I didn't join it.
 
treeman said:
So why do people join the SWPP? Is it because it's the only organisation that allows you to use it's logo, without you having to prove yourself?

Personally, that's the very reason I didn't join it.
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I am sure that the avid supporters of the SWPP will be along shortly in their droves to detail the reasons to join :)
 
MarkyP said:
It would appear that they have used the technology at their disposal to also remove any rival organisations name so Members, in the privacy of their own pm's, using a service that they pay for, within an organisation that they pay a fee to subscribe to can not have an adult discussion and about a rival Society or organisation without that rival Society or Organisation coming up as ***********

So, please do explain to me how that can be deemed "Good Customer Service"?
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I could understand it if the management took a standard approach and banned all references to all 'competing' organisations, but they certainly didn't when I resigned. At that point, mentioning and linking to the BIPP & RPS was OK, but mentioning the Event Photographer Society, resulted in the replacement of the URL with "Banned URL".

I had joined the SWPP in the belief that it was an organisation that had been established to foster the sharing of information between its members. By using filtering in this manner, the management is censoring what information can be shared - which is just wrong. Again, if it were a free service, then people wouldn't be able to complain, but since this is paid-for service, I think their actions are reprehensible.

Threads like this one act as a public service by letting prospective members see beyond the facade that the company projects.

Simon
 
treeman said:
So why do people join the SWPP? Is it because it's the only organisation that allows you to use it's logo, without you having to prove yourself?

Personally, that's the very reason I didn't join it.
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For the £99 quid I pay I am at the moment still happy to remain a member, but perhaps if changes are not implemented in due time, I may grow dis-satisfied like others. On the other hand it's £99 quid, and for a non-public forum, and a few discounts here and there, legal advice and even if the mentoring is only a critique given by Fellow members, it really isn't too bad for the money (IMHO). It's biggest mistake is perhaps marketing its self to be an alternative to the BIPP or MPA. Wrongly, aspiring photogs (like me) and cowboys can use the logo (which I don't)
 
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