Shenanigans at the SWPP

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treeman said:
I suspect the SWPP probably will, under a different name of course :)

But then again, thinking conspiracy theories, maybe they (SWPP) have set up their own demise so they can fold and re-launch a new organisation with a bit more credibility :shrug:
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Or the more suspicious might say it's to generate fresh income from all those new people joining.
 
That is an interesting conspiracy theory.........:naughty:
 
Always interesting to start a thread like this and see what comes out the woodwork.

Mine were 2 of the 10,000 :)
 
I was threatened with legal action when refusing to be sucked in to their 3 month then sign you up if you forget to cancel ploy ....

Unfortunately for them when they sent proof that I had signed membership ... it was someone totally not me - complete with all personal bank details address and phone numbers.

Needless to say when this was pointed out to them they made an "exception" and allowed me to remove myself without financial penalty ....
 
I figure that if I leave it until conference in January I can take my resignation with me and find one of them who's head I can nail it to :) Consider that recorded delivery!
 
Foggy said:
Yeah - saw that. You can join the MPA-Associates as part time for up to 3 year apparently. At the moment the BIPP certainly looks more interesting to me - anyone know if they have a decent community/forum or anything as that is really part of what I am looking for.
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The SWPP has an excellent forum. Are you not happy with this one?
Many on the SWPP forum have remarked that is worth the fee alone.

As for the £99 fee and what you get you don't get from anywhere else for free, well the mentor me programme isn't as bad as people say...I have certainly found it helpful even if it does have flaws in some peoples eyes.

If you go to their anual convention, you can save money on seminars etc.

There are book discounts, the odd discount code on stuff, discount on insurance too.

There is also the monthly competition..........yes has a few flaws apparently but nothing IMHO too bad, but perhaps could be improved. The long and short of it all is that the majority of pics that recieve gold are of a very high standard.

I do agree that there are flaws, the main one being the use of the logo etc,
but for £99 quid, take it or leave it.

I choose to take it. If you choose to leave it, fair enough.
 
NigelPaul said:
The SWPP has an excellent forum. Are you not happy with this one?
Many on the SWPP forum have remarked that is worth the fee alone.

As for the £99 fee and what you get you don't get from anywhere else for free, well the mentor me programme isn't as bad as people say...I have certainly found it helpful even if it does have flaws in some peoples eyes.

If you go to their anual convention, you can save money on seminars etc.

There are book discounts, the odd discount code on stuff, discount on insurance too.

There is also the monthly competition..........yes has a few flaws apparently but nothing IMHO too bad, but perhaps could be improved. The long and short of it all is that the majority of pics that recieve gold are of a very high standard.

I do agree that there are flaws, the main one being the use of the logo etc,
but for £99 quid, take it or leave it.

I choose to take it. If you choose to leave it, fair enough.
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Lets assume I was a prospective member (I take mainly horse pictures and like sports and birdie type things), from what I have heard (from before this latest hoo har), who does the mentoring and considering the amount of little offshoots do they have experts in each area and are the mentors impartial or do they also offer training/judge the competition etc
I think I am right in saying the convention is in London, so a long way to go for talks that I imagine are mainly wedding or portrait related since I rarely hear anything other than wedding people talk about it so again not relevant.
Amazon is pretty good for books and ebay often has useful ones that are cheap.
This forum is great, there is a big selection of people who cover most areas of photography from pro's in weddings, sport, portraits, events so there is always someone who would be able to help. So for me I think the £99 is better off in my pocket or going towards better equipment that will let me get better pictures in the very dark conditions I seem to enjoy shooting in:cuckoo:
If I wanted to stick a logo on my site I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would do me one :lol: On that subject if its true that you can pay up and use the logo without having to have ever used a camera personally I think it makes it a huge no no for me and does appear to be more of a money spinner that a society that really wants its members to be its showcase.

Obviously you are getting positive things out of it and it cannot be all bad or there would be no members! but from a fair way back I have not heard much positive about it. As I said earlier in the thread, its a shame for the owners of it and for its members that its supposed to be helping, but all you need to do is google them to see that the attitude is not a listening one and does seem to be rather domineering.
 
susie said:
Lets assume I was a prospective member (I take mainly horse pictures and like sports and birdie type things), from what I have heard (from before this latest hoo har), who does the mentoring and considering the amount of little offshoots do they have experts in each area and are the mentors impartial or do they also offer training/judge the competition etc
I think I am right in saying the convention is in London, so a long way to go for talks that I imagine are mainly wedding or portrait related since I rarely hear anything other than wedding people talk about it so again not relevant.
Amazon is pretty good for books and ebay often has useful ones that are cheap.
This forum is great, there is a big selection of people who cover most areas of photography from pro's in weddings, sport, portraits, events so there is always someone who would be able to help. So for me I think the £99 is better off in my pocket or going towards better equipment that will let me get better pictures in the very dark conditions I seem to enjoy shooting in:cuckoo:
If I wanted to stick a logo on my site I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would do me one :lol: On that subject if its true that you can pay up and use the logo without having to have ever used a camera personally I think it makes it a huge no no for me and does appear to be more of a money spinner that a society that really wants its members to be its showcase.

Obviously you are getting positive things out of it and it cannot be all bad or there would be no members! but from a fair way back I have not heard much positive about it. As I said earlier in the thread, its a shame for the owners of it and for its members that its supposed to be helping, but all you need to do is google them to see that the attitude is not a listening one and does seem to be rather domineering.
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Obviously not for you, so leave it alone! Simples!
 
Praise is less recorded on the net than critcisms. Same as if you **** a customer off more people will hear about it than any rave reviews you get from happy customers.
 
I think most people are happy with the SWPP until they have any sort of dispute. No matter how small a dispute the family who run the SWPP gang together and find a rule hidden in their small print.

I am sure with a bit more customer care and less greed they would not have 99% of the problems they attract
 
My major concerns with SWPP are these:-

1.) The pay your £99 and you are in policy. NONE of the other organisations allow use of their logo until you are a qualified member. That means that you must be able to submit a body of work that meets a minimum standard. That cost NOTHING to apply yet SWPP seem reluctant to take that step despite being asked to my members.

2.) The mentoring programme. Is not mentoring in any way I have ever heard of. Getting a very brief (like 5 words) written crit of an image is not mentoring. It's giving crit. The fact that the societies chosen mentor also offers his own mentoring programme for financial gain does cause me a problem. How can the award of an L be entirely subjective if the person judging it is the one gaining financially in the process. It is not a robust process and does not bear scrutiny. Again SWPP don't seem troubled by the concerns of it's membership.
3) The monthly competition. The judge (same one that does the mentoring) can see the names of those submitting images, so it's not a subjective process. I have seen some shocking images handed gold awards and when I've double checked the names I have recognised those who have been on the judges mentoring course. Those who choose not to go through that process can largely rely on winning bronze at best no matter how good the image. I can provide plenty of examples from just last month.
4) The head in the sand approach. SWPP had a golden opportunity to change in the aftermath of the court case yet despite a real concern from the membership has found it easier to expel members.
5) Removal of any thread on the forums criticising the society.
6) Editing of PM's, is a step too far.
7) Late night threatening phone calls seems to be a particular favourite. I did google SWPP and there are other examples of this happening. My own experience is a friend of mine who when putting on some North West meets received a very abusive phone call from one of the Jones clan stating that it was competitive to SWPP and he had to take his website down immediately or he would be expelled.

The forums look very friendly and welcoming because anything to the contrary is removed.
 
If someone from the SWPP phoned late at night they'd be getting a visit the next day.

Absolute jokers.
 
Interesting read. Interesting, but not surprising, situation. Number of parallels with other forum management styles.
 
If the management at the SWPP do have any sense left, they'll take action on the advice their members offer.

When members of an organisation find themselves refraining from voicing an opinion in the fear of having their memberships terminated and the 'qualifications' they've acquired during their membership withdrawn, it's time to seriously reassess the situation.

I honestly would have though that after the Bowers incident they would have an immediate change to their QC policies.

Unless the SWPP drop the sanctimonious and highly pompous attitude, they'll be on their merry way to oblivion.
 
NigelPaul said:
The SWPP has an excellent forum. Are you not happy with this one?
Many on the SWPP forum have remarked that is worth the fee alone.
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I don't have any issues with Talk Photography but one of the things that I want from a trade body that I join is the networking opportunities and focused business discussion that would come with it. That is a very significant aspect for me as to whether it is worth my time and money joining.
 
There are aspect of business that belive it or not are best not to discuss here on TP. Try wedding pricing for a start :)

So I will be joining one of the other organisations just so I can network, ask advice, pass on my own experiences and read the sage advice of those who's footsteps I am currently staggering.
 
Merovingian said:
Interesting read. Interesting, but not surprising, situation. Number of parallels with other forum management styles.
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I have no interest in the other forum, they can do what they like.

You however should stop making sly digs at this one. It's not the first time you've done it and it does become quite tedious. If you're not happy go find one where you get as much leeway as you do here.
 
dod said:
If you're not happy go find one where you get as much leeway as you do here.
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And that IS a good point.

You don't find posts being deleted left right and centre and overbearing censorship here. You don't have mods editing your PMs here.

One thing the SWPP debacle has reinforced for me is the value of TP and the freedoms we do have. :thumbs:
 
Another problem with the SWPP lies with the membership. There are a certain core of members who will stand for no criticism of the SWPP and will attack anyone who has the audacity to ask probing questions.

A few months ago, after receiving an email offering me a preferential discount on internet marketing advice through my SWPP membership (the offer came from a third-party company) I posted the innocuous question "Do the SWPP sell their membership data?" - that was all, no accusation, just a question. I couldn't believe the vitriol in a great number of the replies! Of course, none of the replies were from the management......

Since resigning on the forum, I've had my PM rights removed, despite the fact my subscription doesn't expire until February.

Simon
 
what I don't understand is why people join in the first place knowing that it is just a pay and go exercise.
 
I've no axe to grind either way. Not a member of any organisation. I have read their magazines though which seem far more educational and professional than most I've seen.

It seems a few members have a problem with their required cancellation notice/penalty.
If these are the terms of membership, then everyone should equally abide by them.
Every organisation has to have terms and if passing on member discount offers via 3rd party's are one of them, then either accept these or turn them down.

From what I've read on the linked posts a few ex/members seem desperate to stir as much trouble as they can. Most forum admins have to be seen to do something rather than let anarchy and discontent rule, so I feel if members value their chosen 'club' it need supporting.
 
Merovingian said:
Interesting read. Interesting, but not surprising, situation. Number of parallels with other forum management styles.
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If you are referring to here, the big difference is you can get a full refund of your remaining years membership fee here and leave if you are not happy with how the place is run.
 
RichardtheSane said:
If you are referring to here, the big difference is you can get a full refund of your remaining years membership fee here and leave if you are not happy with how the place is run.
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Indeed, always amazes me when people have a pop at free forums and the people who give up their time to run them.
 
Radiohead said:
Editing PM's is a disgrace
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I don't think they edit PM's I think they have a filter, so cetain links/websites etc can be censored just like swear words. Yes a bit petty, but I don't think they are able to read PM's and edit.
 
NigelPaul said:
I don't think they edit PM's I think they have a filter, so cetain links/websites etc can be censored just like swear words. Yes a bit petty, but I don't think they are able to read PM's and edit.
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You think the website admins dont have access to the backend database?

I can assure you that they do...
 
NigelPaul said:
:eek:
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Dont be suprised, any web admin can do it... even here if they wanted to.

I ran 2 community sites, one on VB and the other on phpBB and I could (if I wanted to) see anything about any one of our 13,000 members. In fact, IIRC VB has a plugin designed to make it easy for admins to read all PM's and edit them where they see fit, but all you need to do is go direct to the database.

Thats the power us IT people hold over you all :D
 
Big Brother is watching ,or should I say, reading you...............
 
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