Scum

welly said:
I'm assuming you've not been to prison before. It's not the walk in the park that everyone seems to think it is.
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Awww...that's a shame. I'll send Ian Huntley some fluffy pillows. Compared to being raped and murdered I'd imagine prison is pretty cushy....
 
Yantorsen said:
Everyone is entitled to human rights, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be locked up for breaking them, it just means people should not be killed, it's hypocritical for a start.
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Liberty is also a basic human right. What we're speaking about therefore isn't whether or not these people should have their human rights taken away, it's the extent to which they should be removed. I'd advocate in cases where the evidence is irrefutable and the crime deserves it the death penalty is a perfectly fitting sentence.

You then need to decide as a society which crimes attract the death penalty and the burden of proof required. Not all would.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Awww...that's a shame. I'll send Ian Huntley some fluffy pillows. Compared to being raped and murdered I'd imagine prison is pretty cushy....
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I can't imagine it's very pleasant, even in this country to be fair. It just seems to be a bit more cushy than most other places in the world, which is the problem for most people.
 
RichardC27 said:
The US also has a lot more deprivation than here, which is linked fairly directly to crime. Yes, we would have to pay for someone in prison for life, but keeping someone in prison for life in a 12x10 foot cell with no TV or anything like that, locked up for 22 hours a day (as they do in US maximum security jails), is a little cheaper than people like Ian Huntley being watched by his own dedicated team 24 hours a day, having the full Sky package in his cell, a double bed and all thie rest of it I'd imagine.

And very few murders are planned, hence destroying the evidence doesn't really come into many peoples heads, at least in any significant way. I'd wager most of the unsolved, so called cold case murders in this country are the ones that were properly planned.

So you advocated one of the lads who killed that poor girl up in Bolton purely because she was dressed as a goth having his sentence reduced by 6 months last week do you, since that will save the taxpayer some money?
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I think your exagerating, most prisoners don't have TVs and double beds despite what the daily mail will have you think.

But you seem to justify the death penalty becuase it is "revenge" but if a wife had found her husband cheating on her and then killed him, although not right and she is still in the wrong, you would argue that is revenge, so less bad?

anywayof course I don't agree with short sentances ideally but it's simply not viable to have long one all the time.
 
RichardC27 said:
I can't imagine it's very pleasant, even in this country to be fair. It just seems to be a bit more cushy than most other places in the world, which is the problem for most people.
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Should it be? One comment you hear (particularly regarding youth detention facilities) is that many inmates (or "clients" as they're probably called nowadays) have a better standard of living inside compared with outside.

Not sure if that is a criticism of our penal system, or of the state of the country in general, but I suspect it may in fact be both...
 
Yantorsen said:
anywayof course I don't agree with short sentances ideally but it's simply not viable to have long one all the time.
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Why not? If it's to do with space all we need are more prisons. Overcrowding problem solved.
 
dod said:
Why not? If it's to do with space all we need are more prisons. Overcrowding problem solved.
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more prisons, more food, more facilities, more staff, more infrastructure, it all adds up, and people don't want prisons in there back garden.
 
You're fully entitled to defend your home and property using reasonable force, even if that ultimately means killing the offender. The Tony Martin case has confused the issue for so many people. Basically he did everything wrong. he's turned his home into an intruder trap - he shot an unarmed intruder at the full length of a staircase, and he shot another one outside running away.

There was considerable sympathy for the man, but there was only one verdict the court could ever have come to given the law.
 
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this is going nowhere

its a real shame that some of the people who disagreed with Yantorsen decided to take the **** out of him instead.
could have been a good and interesting debate but its just turned into cack.

i'm glad i left the thread and didnt post anymore :) (yes i do see the irony :) )
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Do you have any evidence to back up that ascertation?
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My aunty is a prison officer and she gets annoyed by people saying prison is a holiday camp because it simply isn't.

I know thats not evidence you can see, I'm sure you could find some sources from googling.
 
Garnock said:
Yanto, what would you do with these people ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7723042.stm

Let them out after 12 years or lock them up for ever.
Do you think they can be rehabilitated ?
Like me, you don't agree with the death penalty but for different reasons.
I just don't trust the legal system to always get it right.
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im not going to start on that one, my blood was boiling when that was on the radio today.
 
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Garnock said:
Yanto, what would you do with these people ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7723042.stm

Let them out after 12 years or lock them up for ever.
Do you think they can be rehabilitated ?
Like me, you don't agree with the death penalty but for different reasons.
I just don't trust the legal system to always get it right.
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Ideally forever, as long as they have the opertunity to appeal in light of new evidence, but that isn't financially viable atm. Although thinking about it, it might actually be if you moved all the scumbags out of housing into prison cells it might create more housing space.
 
Yantorsen said:
I think your exagerating, most prisoners don't have TVs and double beds despite what the daily mail will have you think.

But you seem to justify the death penalty becuase it is "revenge" but if a wife had found her husband cheating on her and then killed him, although not right and she is still in the wrong, you would argue that is revenge, so less bad?

anywayof course I don't agree with short sentances ideally but it's simply not viable to have long one all the time.
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I believe that a wife finding her husband cheating on her and then killing him, a crime of passion, was still a legitimate defence until fairly recently. And I never said every prisoner has TV's and double beds, of course they don't, but the fact that even one does is an absoulte disgrace IMHO.

Flash, seeing some of the things I see working in an organisation involved in the criminal justice system, a lot of people do have a better life in prison than they do on the outside, and actively try to get locked up again.
 
badgerbaiter said:
this is going nowhere

its a real shame that some of the people who disagreed with Yantorsen decided to take the **** out of him instead.
could have been a good and interesting debate but its just turned into cack.

i'm glad i left the thread and didnt post anymore :) (yes i do see the irony :) )
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Well you're pretty predictable yourself in these thread with your usual "Hang 'em all I say" comments', but you don't actually contribute much beyond that.
 
RichardC27 said:
I believe that a wife finding her husband cheating on her and then killing him, a crime of passion, was still a legitimate defence until fairly recently. And I never said every prisoner has TV's and double beds, of course they don't, but the fact that even one does is an absoulte disgrace IMHO.

Flash, seeing some of the things I see working in an organisation involved in the criminal justice system, a lot of people do have a better life in prison than they do on the outside, and actively try to get locked up again.
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getting locked up though isn't just about punishment, it's about protecting the public until they can be rehabilitated.
 
Garnock said:
Ahhh, true colours.
Lock up people because they have comitted the crime of ............ scumbaggery. :bonk:
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lol i didn't mean it like that, was just a general term for criminals, but I was trying to relate to the right wing snobs on here ;)
 
But some people are beyond rehabilitation...
 
Yantorsen said:
My aunty is a prison officer and she gets annoyed by people saying prison is a holiday camp because it simply isn't.

I know thats not evidence you can see, I'm sure you could find some sources from googling.
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That's not evidence at all, it's just hearsay.
 
Yantorsen said:
Well I don't agree with that TBH, but let's not go off on a tangent.
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So how can two men who broke a baby's back, put a gouge in his head, pulled his fingernails out, cut off the tip of his finger and gave him 8 broken ribs ever be rehabilitated, to take an example from a story given a few posts ago?
 
It's so infuriating reading these threads. I'm not talking about your average Sat night death from a brawl or your domestic murder following a row. I'm taking about cold, calculated and deliberate murder. I've had to sit down and speak to some of these people. Not only have they killed people, they've subjected them to cruelties you would not believe one human being could inflict on another. There is no remorse whatsoever other than the remorse at getting caught.

Your'e left in no doubt that they are so far out of step with normal standards of what is right and wrong, so ****ed up, that they will be a threat to society as long as they draw breath. Many of them are scary people to have to deal with on any level, you have to pity the prison staff who are effectively banged up with them all day. There are thousands of them in prisons up and down the country and many more walking about in society like time bombs.

Let life mean life... otherwise remove the threat permanently.

Enlightened my arse.
 
CT said:
It's so infuriating reading these threads. I'm not talking about your average Sat night death from a brawl or your domestic murder following a row. I'm taking about cold, calculated and deliberate murder. I've had to sit down and speak to some of these people. Not only have they killed people, they've subjected them to cruelties you would not believe one human being could inflict on another. There is no remorse whatsoever other than the remorse at getting caught.

Your'e left in no doubt that they are so far out of step with normal standards of what is right and wrong, so ****ed up, that they will be a threat to society as long as they draw breath. Many of them are scary people to have to deal with on any level, you have to pity the prison staff who are effectively banged up with them all day. There are thousands of them in prisons up and down the country and many more walking about in society like time bombs.

Let life mean life... otherwise remove the threat permanently.

Enlightened my arse.
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:clap: :agree:
 
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