School Letter to Pupils

I see these letters as a bit sanctimonious. The schools role is to educate, to school, nothing more, nothing less.

Some people are more able than others, its a hard truth but a truth nevertheless. The more able more than likely go further in life. The less able (and I am one of them as I don't have a great job because I have the stress tolerance of nothing) do not go as far. It's not a problem, just a fact.

What is wrong with accepting you are not a chief, but one of the Indians. There is an awful lot of false entitlement out there with people thinking they deserve or are owed a better pot to pee in than they have, when in reality their lot is totally fine. I see it at work, people desparate for a promotion because they feel they are good at their job means they should be the wrung up. What is wrong with just being good at the job you have? It is this discontentment and greed for more that makes people the unhappy people they are. Accept what you are, know what you are capable of and more important what you are incapable of, what you have and enjoy it is my take on things.

Letters like this just breed undue expectations on people and breed false confidence.
 
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ST4 said:
I see these letters as a bit sanctimonious. The schools role is to educate, to school, nothing more, nothing less.

Some people are more able than others, its a hard truth but a truth nevertheless. The more able more than likely go further in life. The less able (and I am one of them as I don't have a great job because I have the stress tolerance of nothing) do not go as far. It's not a problem, just a fact.

What is wrong with accepting you are not a chief, but one of the Indians.
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And equally, what's wrong will letting small children (and let's face it, the recipients of this letter were little kids!) know that even if they are not academically gifted, they my well have other gifts / skills etc.
Also, and yes I will stress this again...these kids had just excelled academically. :-)

Children now are subject to far more (ridiculous) official early testing than we were.
It would seem that childhood is no longer something to be enjoyed, and that's really sad.
 
daugirdas said:
That's exactly the mentality I challenge. 'Nothing' if you like, but there are plenty more innovative roles that create better wealth both for the individual and the national economy. All R&D jobs for example.
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Yes, but not everyone wants to do R&D or create better wealth.
Thankfully, there are people that are happy working in call centres, and doing all the other jobs that are obviously "beneath" you.
 
ST4 said:
I see these letters as a bit sanctimonious. The schools role is to educate, to school, nothing more, nothing less.

Some people are more able than others, its a hard truth but a truth nevertheless. The more able more than likely go further in life. The less able (and I am one of them as I don't have a great job because I have the stress tolerance of nothing) do not go as far. It's not a problem, just a fact.

What is wrong with accepting you are not a chief, but one of the Indians. There is an awful lot of false entitlement out there with people thinking they deserve or are owed a better pot to pee in than they have, when in reality their lot is totally fine. I see it at work, people desparate for a promotion because they feel they are good at their job means they should be the wrung up. What is wrong with just being good at the job you have? It is this discontentment and greed for more that makes people the unhappy people they are. Accept what you are, know what you are capable of and more important what you are incapable of, what you have and enjoy it is my take on things.

Letters like this just breed undue expectations on people and breed false confidence.
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I thought the letter was making the points that you've just made. There's more to life than results, there's nothing wrong with being an Indian and not a chief etc.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Yes, but not everyone wants to do R&D or create better wealth.
Thankfully, there are people that are happy working in call centres, and doing all the other jobs that are obviously "beneath" you.
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(Possible a call centre job doesn't pay enough for potential speeding fines and parking fees :lol: )
 
viv1969 said:
And equally, what's wrong will letting small children (and let's face it, the recipients of this letter were little kids!) know that even if they are not academically gifted, they my well have other gifts / skills etc.
Also, and yes I will stress this again...these kids had just excelled academically. :)

Children now are subject to far more (ridiculous) official early testing than we were.
It would seem that childhood is no longer something to be enjoyed, and that's really sad.
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Thats the role of the family/friends etc to do this. Not the schools. The family etc are for this, and worse case, social work.

I agree too much emphasis is on education/grades but at the same time a pragmatic approach in letting people know (this is a school, a place for academic attainment) that their school work isn't the best isn't a bad thing and instilling a false confidence is ultimately more detrimental than letting someone know the limit of their abilities. All IMHO. The earlier this is done the better. Some kids, and I did some voulteering with them, are simply brighter and more able than others. Others are better at sports, others at reading, others at numbers. The earlier they know what their strengths and weaknesses are, the better they are equipped for life outside school. The school, IMHO, is there to teach basics, nothing more.
 
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ST4 said:
Thats the role of the family/friends etc to do this. Not the schools. The family etc are for this, and worse case, social work.

I agree too much emphasis is on education/grades but at the same time a pragmatic approach in letting people know (this is a school, a place for academic attainment) that their school work isn't the best isn't a bad thing and instilling a false confidence is ultimately more detrimental than letting someone know the limit of their abilities. All IMHO. The earlier this is done the better. Some kids, and I did some voulteering with them, are simply brighter and more able than others. Others are better at sports, others at reading, others at numbers. The earlier they know what their strengths are, the better they are equipped for life outside school.
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From the age of 5 (sometimes younger) until 16/17, a child spends possibly more waking time in the care of a school than they do with their family.
Schools hold far more responsibility than just academics, (especially as for some kids, it's a safer, more emotionally supportive place to be than home.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Yes, but not everyone wants to do R&D or create better wealth.
Thankfully, there are people that are happy working in call centres, and doing all the other jobs that are obviously "beneath" you.
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That is completely irrelevant sir. Unless this country (and EU as a whole) can step up the creation of modern technologies and successful enterprises things are really not looking up. So how are call-centres going to help us, presuming everyone is happy to work there and isn't inspired to do something bigger? India is the country of call centres right now, but they will overtake us, and then we will be the country of call-centres and low wages. Is this the future you are looking up to? Not everyone is born to do RD work and there is nothing wrong with call centre work, but is a shame when talented people end up working in support sector only because they weren't motivated and helped enough at school or at home.
 
viv1969 said:
From the age of 5 (sometimes younger) until 16/17, a child spends possibly more waking time in the care of a school than they do with their family.
Schools hold far more responsibility than just academics, (especially as for some kids, it's a safer, more nurturing place to be than home.
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From the age of 16 you spend more time in work than with friends/family. At work you do work there, they aren't a nanny service for your lack of ability to do what they pay you to do, your self asteem issues etc/family issues/drug and alchohol issues either with you/family/friends.

School and work have a lot in common, except if you are bad at your job you are told you need to do better. At schools like this, that seems a concept that is completely missing. Thats why school leavers need to find jobs they can actually realistically do, rather than pin their hopes on something that is outwith their reach and they then struggle to do what they are paid to do and end up miserable/stressed out/unemployed again.
 
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ST4 said:
From the age of 16 you spend more time in work than with friends/family. At work you do work there, they aren't a nanny service for your lack of ability to do what they pay you to do, your self asteem issues etc/family issues/drug and alchohol issues either with you/family/friends.

School and work have a lot in common, except if you are bad at your job you are told you need to do better. At schools like this, that seems a concept that is completely missing. Thats why school leavers need to find jobs they can actually realistically do, rather than pin their hopes on something that is outwith their reach and they then struggle to do what they are paid to do and end up miserable/stressed out/unemployed again.
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If you're bad at your job, then your employer needs to seriously review their recruiting policies.
 
viv1969 said:
If you're bad at your job, then your employer needs to seriously review their recruiting policies.
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I am great at it, but I've seen people barely equipped to do the job hired, then struggle with it and end up stressed/miserable. They usually come accross confident/self assured (so will interview well) but don't have the brain power in reality. It is this false sense of entitlement that bugs me.

People, in my experience, always have an inflated opinion of their own children (none more so than my own parents) and expect them to automatically to do better than them. Why should they? Letters like this to children will just make them think they are more capable than they actually are.
 
ST4 said:
I am great at it, but I've seen people barely equipped to do the job hired, then struggle with it and end up stressed/miserable. They usually come accross confident/self assured (so will interview well) but don't have the brain power in reality. It is this false sense of entitlement that bugs me.

People, in my experience, always have an inflated opinion of their own children (none more so than my own parents) and expect them to automatically to do better than them. Why should they? Letters like this to children will just make them think they are more capable than they actually are.
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No it won't, I will make them feel rather good about themselves for a short time, rather than people pointing the finger in their face and telling them "you can't......you will never...." etc.
 
viv1969 said:
No it won't, I will make them feel rather good about themselves for a short time, rather than people pointing the finger in their face and telling them "you can't......you will never...." etc.
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I beg to differ. I don't believe giving a list of grades is ever telling them "you can't......you will never...." it is just stating facts. The teachers should be saying (by interpreting the facts), you need to work on that a bit more, but to be honest you are naturally better at this, so perhaps in the future your talents lie in this, not that. Constructive criticism is never bad.

Feeling bad about bad grades isn't bad and it is a part of growing up, it helps people work on improving themselves a bit, which prepares them for work.
 
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ST4 said:
I beg to differ. I don't believe giving a list of grades is ever telling them "you can't......you will never...." it is just stating facts. The teachers should be saying (by interpreting the facts), you need to work on that a bit more, but to be honest you are naturally better at this, so perhaps in the future your talents lie in this, not that. Constructive criticism is never bad.

Feeling bad about bad grades isn't bad and it is a part of growing up, it helps people work on improving themselves a bit, which prepares them for work.
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I don't mean the constructive kind, especially not at school.
 
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daugirdas said:
. Unless this country (and EU as a whole) can step up the creation of modern technologies and successful enterprises things are really not looking up. So how are call-centres going to help us, presuming everyone is happy to work there and isn't inspired to do something bigger?
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The country can only support a limited number of specialised jobs.
Scenario.
A vet leaves Uni "with honors"
Fails to find a position, or indeed has the funds to start his / her own practice.
While they were studying, they worked in a bar.
So with that experience behind them, they secure a bar person's position.
They may or may not become management but become comfortable with their surroundings.

After a few years of trying to secure one of the very limited vet positions, and failing,
they stay with what they also know.

Unfortunately each generation only produces a few of these Entrepreneurs.
Everyone would love to be Richard Branson Steve Jobs (well OK maybe not him ;) ) or Bill Gates.
But these guys have (had) something special, if we all knew what that was, we would all be doing it.
 
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viv1969 said:
I don't mean the constructive kind, especially not at school.
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But this sort of thing isn't constructive or helpful, it won't help the pupils improve the work they are at the school to do. The grades should have been sent out and back at school discussed to see what needs improved on, and what they are naturally good and bad at. Simples.
Some will go further, earn more, some won't. Big deal. The world needs rich and poor people alike. It needs natural leaders, natural followers, grafters, creative types. Not everyone wants to be a grafter or natural follower, it is less exciting, but in reality thats what a lot are cut out to be.
 
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ST4 said:
But this sort of thing isn't constructive or helpful, it won't help the pupils improve the work they are at the school to do. The grades should have been sent out and back at school discussed to see what needs improved on, and what they are naturally good and bad at. Simples.
Some will go further, earn more, some won't. Big deal. The world needs rich and poor people alike. It needs natural leaders, natural followers, grafters, creative types. Not everyone wants to be a grafter or natural follower, it is less exciting, but in reality thats what a lot are cut out to be.
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Why does everything have to be constructive?
Isn't it ok to sometimes just do something that is simply a nice thing to do.
A good fully rounded education isn't just about numbers, statistics ans results.
 
viv1969 said:
Why does everything have to be constructive?
Isn't it ok to sometimes just do something that is simply a nice thing to do.
A good fully rounded education isn't just about numbers, statistics ans results.
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It is a school, a place of business, not a family holiday camp. It is there to give a schooling and academic education. That other stuff comes from parents/freinds/relatives/social work (worst case).

My boss gives me work and an appraisal to assess my work (that then dictates my pay rise), we get on, but I don't get guff like this from her, why should I?

False entitlement, it is a dangerous thing. Kids will enter the workplace expecting praises for just being them, rather than for what they do. Not good, a passport to discontentment and false expectations.
 
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I could say the same thing a million different ways and you still wouldn't grasp anything about an all-round education which is what every kid needs.
Those who are driven purely "by the numbers" will make no better adults then those who are better in other areas. There needs to be a balance.
 
daugirdas said:
That is completely irrelevant sir. Unless this country (and EU as a whole) can step up the creation of modern technologies and successful enterprises things are really not looking up. So how are call-centres going to help us, presuming everyone is happy to work there and isn't inspired to do something bigger? India is the country of call centres right now, but they will overtake us, and then we will be the country of call-centres and low wages. Is this the future you are looking up to? Not everyone is born to do RD work and there is nothing wrong with call centre work, but is a shame when talented people end up working in support sector only because they weren't motivated and helped enough at school or at home.
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But it's not irrelevant though.
Many well educated and talented people fail to secure positions in their chosen field and work in call centres etc.
Who is presuming everyone is happy to work there? Certainly not me, must many are, and that's ok.
At least I'm looking up! You only seem to look down! Sir.
 
And if we're discussing "false entitlement", shall we discuss some of those who do well academically right through to degree level, and then expect to waltz out of academia straight into a 40 grand a year job because they have a piece of paper saying how good they are? Not to mention the constant whining that ensues when they can't find such a position, and anything less is beneath them.
 
viv1969 said:
I could say the same thing a million different ways and you still wouldn't grasp anything about an all-round education which is what every kid needs.
Those who are driven purely "by the numbers" will make no better adults then those who are better in other areas. There needs to be a balance.
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No, I never disputed an all round education but is really sending some schmaltzy note with their exam papers really an education? With literacy problems in schools, only the mid to high achievers who have good results would be able to read it anyway.

School isn't there to give an all round education, it is there to give an academic education. In the same way my work is there to provide me with money to live, it isn't there to provide me with hobbies, culture and social enrichment.
 
viv1969 said:
And if we're discussing "false entitlement", shall we discuss some of those who do well academically right through to degree level, and then expect to waltz out of academia straight into a 40 grand a year job because they have a piece of paper saying how good they are? Not to mention the constant whining that ensues when they can't find such a position, and anything less is beneath them.
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That is exactly the type I believe this sort of thing creates. Over ambitious parents (you know the sorts) produce this lot along with the schools that big these people up. As I said, the academic stuff is done in schools, the life stuff on the way. Parents cannot and shouldnt expect the school to raise their child.
 
ST4 said:
School isn't there to give an all round education, .
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The fact that you believe that (if indeed you do, or are just being....you), is really rather sad.
 
viv1969 said:
The fact that you believe that (if indeed you do, or are just being....you), is really rather sad.
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Stop being personal, did you bother to read the entire post, or did you just fancy quoting the bit that caught your eye?

I am as much entitled to my views as you. I just believe that parents, just cannot expect to farm out all their duties other than feeding/clothing their child to the school. They need to play an active role in their childs upbringing. The school is there to teach maths, english etc, not to parent.

Same way my boss is here to see I work, not to deal with me being me as you so eloquently put it.
 
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ST4 said:
Stop being personal, did you bother to read the entire post, or did you just fancy quoting the bit that caught your eye?

I am as much entitled to my views as you. I just believe that parents, just cannot expect to farm out all their duties other than feeding/clothing their child to the school. They need to play an active role in their childs upbringing. The school is there to teach maths, english etc, not to parent.

Same way my boss is here to see I work, not to deal with me being me as you so eloquently put it.
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So, you'll be campaigning for the removal of all things sporting, artistic and all healthcare checks from schools, yes?
And your boss, work etc. are irrelevant to the discussion.
 
viv1969 said:
So, you'll be campaigning for the removal of all things sporting, artistic and all healthcare checks from schools, yes?
And your boss, work etc. are irrelevant to the discussion.
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There's a lot of crap needing removed from school.

Re read my posts. I'm giving you an analogy to show how this letter bares no resemblance to real life and it won't help prepare kids for the reality of work. My points valid.
 
ST4 said:
There's a lot of crap needing removed from school.

Re read my posts. I'm giving you an analogy to show how this letter bares no resemblance to real life and it won't help prepare kids for the reality of work. My points valid.
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You're right...your points have validity.
In the same way that an instance of saying something nice, especially following the attainment of high academic test results (as this was), will also not result in those children's academic education being compromised.
 
viv1969 said:
You're right...your points have validity.
In the same way that an instance of saying something nice, especially following the attainment of high academic test results (as this was), will also not result in those children's academic education being compromised.
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It was sent to every pupil, that means even the low achievers get the you've not done well but you've done well losers speach.
 
ST4 said:
It was sent to every pupil, that means even the low achievers get the you've not done well but you've done well losers speach.
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Where in the letter does it say you've not done well?

That you would ever consider calling a child "loser", frankly speaks volumes about you petsonally Steve.

I concede. It's impossible to discuss things rationally with ignorance.
 
viv1969 said:
Where in the letter does it say you've not done well?

That you would ever consider calling a child "loser", frankly speaks volumes about you petsonally Steve.

I concede. It's impossible to discuss things rationally with ignorance.
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Can you please tell me where I said I would call a child a loser?

I said the letter was a "losers" speech, the sort of thing you might say to someone who hadn't done well, but to make good you'd spout some rubbish off to big them up.

It (the letter) was sent to every child by definition I wouldn't be calling the children losers as they all got it, and if there is a loser, there is also a winner by definition. The letter went to the kid top of the class, as well as bottom of the class.

Good try mind you, the fact you are trying to misrepresent what I say speaks volumes about you. Actually, I was a loser as a child. I came last in egg and spoons, and Stuart came 1st. He was the winner, I was the loser. Simple really.

The letter should have never been produced. A table of grades and maybe in the childs report a "well done" would suffice to those who did well, or better than expected or even those who worked really hard for the grade they did get.

This false schmaltzy indulgence will not get these kids anywhere, spending time working with them to improve on their performance would be more helpful.
 
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ST4 said:
There's a lot of crap needing removed from school.

Re read my posts. I'm giving you an analogy to show how this letter bares no resemblance to real life and it won't help prepare kids for the reality of work. My points valid.
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What 'crap' needs removed from Schools?
 
ST4 said:
Religious education would be a good place to start. Then could move on to other things like the level of adminstration in teachers jobs, things like this...
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RE is an important part of the curriculum, it is designed to allow our young people to develop their own beliefs. With regard to level of administration in teachers jobs, this is part of their 35 hr working week, I believe, as a teacher, that any teacher who works way beyond these hours need to look at their priorities. I work in a school that is in the top 10 of Scottish schools and I have no need to put in the additional hours and I still manage to successfully guide my students through exams. When I leave school, it's time for family, photography, football, socialising, not for sitting doing 'preparation'
 
jimbojambo2000 said:
RE is an important part of the curriculum, it is designed to allow our young people to develop their own beliefs. With regard to level of administration in teachers jobs, this is part of their 35 hr working week, I believe, as a teacher, that any teacher who works way beyond these hours need to look at their priorities. I work in a school that is in the top 10 of Scottish schools and I have no need to put in the additional hours and I still manage to successfully guide my students through exams. When I leave school, it's time for family, photography, football, socialising, not for sitting doing 'preparation'
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Good for you, you must be one of the few coping well.

RE has no place in schools, it provides problems and divisions. It is up the family to instill religion if they need, but it should not be thrust in childrens faces. Maths, English, history, languages, science have a role.
 
ST4 said:
Good for you, you must be one of the few coping well.

RE has no place in schools, it provides problems and divisions. It is up the family to instill religion if they need, but it should not be thrust in childrens faces. Maths, English, history, languages, science have a role.
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thanks,

I would disagree re. RE. In this country especially, the problems and divisions are caused by what is being thrust in their faces at home.
 
jimbojambo2000 said:
thanks,

I would disagree re. RE. In this country especially, the problems and divisions are caused by what is being thrust in their faces at home.
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I was thinking UK as a large, but I get the point. I'd get rid of demonination schools. Its an out of date practice and most importantly completely at odds with the world at large.

The sooner we adopt the French model re education, the better. No religion, just simple good education.
 
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ST4 said:
I was thinking UK as a large, but I get the point. I'd get rid of demonination schools. Its an out of date practice and most importantly completely at odds with the world at large.

The sooner we adopt the French model re education, the better. No religion, just simple good education.
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French primary education:
The subjects taught at primary school are divided into three main groups: French, history, geography and civic studies; mathematics, science and technology; physical education and sport, arts and crafts, and music.

Perhaps you'd better pop over there Steve and sort their education system out too :LOL:
(School based religious education is also generally available on a voluntary basis).
 
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Bet the French teachers don't waste time writing schmaltzy letters to pupils irrespective of how well it badly they done?

Suggesting I go to France (which I did earlier this year) isn't going to change this letter is a load of nonsense that will do no good at all.
 
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