Saving the planet?

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Steep

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Just an observation.

I've been working beside a bottle bank today. Quite shocked at the number of chelsea tractors / volvo x40s rocking up and left running while Tarquin's mum disposes of a weeks worth of wine bottles.

If Tarquin'smum reads this, you're not doing the world any favours...
 
What would you prefer that Tarquin's mum does with her bottles ?
At least she is putting them in a Bottle bank instead of dumping them somewhere.
 
The Council round here collects the wine bottles and other stuff. No need to drive anywhere with them.

Dave
 
It would be better if she saved them for a monthly run, which might perhaps cover the carbon cost of taking them there (which I think was the ironic point of the OP)?
 
camerassassin said:
What would you prefer that Tarquin's mum does with her bottles ?
At least she is putting them in a Bottle bank instead of dumping them somewhere.
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I would prefer that she turns the engine off while she deposits her recyclables.
 
'Saving The Planet' - what a stupid expression that is, but you hear it everywhere. :headbang:

The planet can save itself quite well and has been doing so for millions of years. If necessary, it will heal itself by getting rid of humans - we're destined to fail as a species anyway. Plastics and social dumbing down practices have reduced average IQs quite nicely in just the last twenty years or so. In fifty or a hundred years? :facepalm:

I'm with agent Smith in his conversation with Morpheus about humans being a virus (you can search for that yourself if you've not seen The Matrix).
 
I've never had a 4x4 but I don't know if they're necessarily all that much worse than something more pc. They often have the same or even a smaller footprint on the road than a non Chelsea tractor and I suppose it is even possible that they could be less polluting than other on road vehicles that maybe don't attract as much criticism.

One the general point of recycling, I think I saw something this week about UK recycling waste turning up somewhere abroad and being dumped or burned. I'd ban all exports of this stuff. It all should be processed in the UK otherwise there will be no verified procedures or checking and it'll continue to be what some suspect it's been at least in part for a long time... a scam and a farce.
 
Sky said:
'Saving The Planet' - what a stupid expression that is, but you hear it everywhere. :headbang:

The planet can save itself quite well and has been doing so for millions of years. If necessary, it will heal itself by getting rid of humans - we're destined to fail as a species anyway. Plastics and social dumbing down practices have reduced average IQs quite nicely in just the last twenty years or so. In fifty or a hundred years? :facepalm:

I'm with agent Smith in his conversation with Morpheus about humans being a virus (you can search for that yourself if you've not seen The Matrix).
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I'd like this post but that might give the impression that I understand the bit about agent Smith and Morpheus.......

But seriously, the planet would be better off without humans - that bit is quite clear now, but it's the rest of the biosphere that we'll take down with us that I find so sad.
 
jerry12953 said:
I'd like this post but that might give the impression that I understand the bit about agent Smith and Morpheus.......
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Here you go:

'I'd like to share a revelation during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.'
 
Of course it would be better off without humans. Or, any dominant species that overcomes the natural restrictions of life on earth.

As for saving the planet - we will never know. We won't be around. Who knows what will happen on this little round rock, that has perfect conditions for life (the right heat through distance from the star, a satellite to mix things up, water, carbon) over time, given the shocking loading of the atmosphere with carbon dioxide and the ravishing of resources. That's without considering the poisoning by plastic.

The earth has been languidly stable over a huge period of time. Languidly stable meaning that, in the absence of outside factors, there has never been such a rapid change in climate, ever. The length of time that things take to happen appears to be beyond the average Daily Mail reader's ability to understand.

A good outcome would be the evolution of plastic consuming organisms, to clear up that mess, and a bloom of carbon trapping organisms, to re-sequester the carbon that the human virus has released in the atmosphere.
 
woof woof said:
I think I saw something this week about UK recycling waste turning up somewhere abroad and being dumped or burned.
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It's not uncommon for our waste to be "baled up" and sent to the likes of Germany, to be burned for energy.
Some does stay in the UK but it depends on where they can get the best price from.
 
Steep said:
Just an observation.

I've been working beside a bottle bank today. Quite shocked at the number of chelsea tractors / volvo x40s rocking up and left running while Tarquin's mum disposes of a weeks worth of wine bottles.

If Tarquin'smum reads this, you're not doing the world any favours...
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How do you know that the car is not more fuel efficient than Daves 2.5l 20 year Mondeo....

Also where is said bottle bank, the ones i know are either in a supermarket car park or around a village hall so she is probably at the supermarket anyway, or passing one.

Am sure most of us do far worse!
 
We have a couple of plastic boxes that get filled with glass and when they're full, they get taken to a bottle bank for emptying. Usually at the supermarket or on the way to town rather than making a special trip, although it's almost always in the Leaf so not locally polluting even if it's left "running" (so the cabin's kept warm/cool.)

Our general recycling all gets chucked in the same bin and is sorted locally and as I understand it, the stuff that's worth it (financially, for the council, I assume...) gets flogged and what's left gets incinerated to produce power.
 
Pound Coin said:
The earth has been languidly stable over a huge period of time. Languidly stable meaning that, in the absence of outside factors, there has never been such a rapid change in climate, ever. The length of time that things take to happen appears to be beyond the average Daily Mail reader's ability to understand.
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I shall restrain myself and simply suggest that you read some of the published research on the evolution of this planet and its ecosphere.

To misquote Douglas Adams: the first billion years were the worst, the next billion years were the worst too, then it went into a decline...
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I shall restrain myself and simply suggest that you read some of the published research on the evolution of this planet and its ecosphere.

To misquote Douglas Adams: the first billion years were the worst, the next billion years were the worst too, then it went into a decline...
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Billion is not the same as ten.
 
cambsno said:
How do you know that the car is not more fuel efficient than Daves 2.5l 20 year Mondeo....

Also where is said bottle bank, the ones i know are either in a supermarket car park or around a village hall so she is probably at the supermarket anyway, or passing one.

Am sure most of us do far worse!
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I think you missed the point, it being not very eco friendly to leave your car running while you go through the motions of being eco friendly.
 
Steep said:
I think you missed the point, it being not very eco friendly to leave your car running while you go through the motions of being eco friendly.
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The whole eco thing seems very odd to me...
  • Nuclear power is bad, until we run short and then it's good.
  • Windmills are bad for birds until we run short and then they're good, sited where thousands of seabirds can run into them.
  • Petrol is bad, until we realise that Lithium is really nasty stuff to dispose of or recycle, so then it's good.
  • Gas is bad until everything else is off the agenda when it's good again and not having it is now bad.
I'd be confused if I didn't regard the people pushing all these changes as a bunch of brain damaged clowns mixed in with money grabbing wide boys... :naughty:
 
Steep said:
I think you missed the point, it being not very eco friendly to leave your car running while you go through the motions of being eco friendly.
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For what, 30 seconds? If the councils stopped putting in silly road designs and closing of roads it would save far more. I used to be able to drive 2 miles to next village - not any more, takes 4 now. Even going to another one takes longer due the silly traffic lights they have in place so more fuel burned.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The whole eco thing seems very odd to me...
  • Nuclear power is bad, until we run short and then it's good.
  • Windmills are bad for birds until we run short and then they're good, sited where thousands of seabirds can run into them.
  • Petrol is bad, until we realise that Lithium is really nasty stuff to dispose of or recycle, so then it's good.
  • Gas is bad until everything else is off the agenda when it's good again and not having it is now bad.
I'd be confused if I didn't regard the people pushing all these changes as a bunch of brain damaged clowns mixed in with money grabbing wide boys... :naughty:
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You are way too far down into the detail.

What is actually bad is the excessive use of resources in a vain attempt to sustain the unsustainable.

Digging into the detail to find little contradictions doesn’t change the fact that we’ve gone too far, and there will most probably not be a way back, unless there is dramatic change.

With the moneyed vested interest groups pumping out disinformation (tell it enough times and some people will believe it) we have less chance than a 1960‘s smoker…
 
woof woof said:
I've never had a 4x4 but I don't know if they're necessarily all that much worse than something more pc. They often have the same or even a smaller footprint on the road than a non Chelsea tractor and I suppose it is even possible that they could be less polluting than other on road vehicles that maybe don't attract as much criticism.

One the general point of recycling, I think I saw something this week about UK recycling waste turning up somewhere abroad and being dumped or burned. I'd ban all exports of this stuff. It all should be processed in the UK otherwise there will be no verified procedures or checking and it'll continue to be what some suspect it's been at least in part for a long time... a scam and a farce.
Click to expand...

A link from last year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49827945

I recall a Channel 4 or perhaps a Panorama programme a few years ago about UK waste being exported and burned somewhere in the far east.

I agree all of our waste should be dealt with here. It is IMO immoral for us to export waste so it becomes somebody else's problem - its not, we created the waste, so we should deal with directly.

Dave
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I shall restrain myself and simply suggest that you read some of the published research on the evolution of this planet and its ecosphere.

To misquote Douglas Adams: the first billion years were the worst, the next billion years were the worst too, then it went into a decline...
Click to expand...

Like all of the research that says man made climate change is real, that you choose to ignore? :rolleyes:
 
Tringa said:
A link from last year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49827945

I recall a Channel 4 or perhaps a Panorama programme a few years ago about UK waste being exported and burned somewhere in the far east.

I agree all of our waste should be dealt with here. It is IMO immoral for us to export waste so it becomes somebody else's problem - its not, we created the waste, so we should deal with directly.

Dave
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My argument isn't really on moral grounds although the people involved in this must know UK waste does end up being dumped or otherwise disposed of in ways that would be illegal here and therefore I suppose morals should come into this.

My main argument is that recycling should not only be done it should be verifiably seen to be done and done ethically and responsibly and that means in the UK. Thinking back to my working days I was involved with the packaging wage regulations and they were entirely useless and I expect much other recycling regulation is too.
 
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KitsuneAndy said:
Like all of the research that says man made climate change is real, that you choose to ignore? :rolleyes:
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For arguments sake...

qkCnhaV.jpg


But please don't spend your time debunking that. My point is that it's possible to make an argument especially if you buy into it and choose your data. As I may have said before, we're not following the science here as anyone who even whispers any science that doesn't fit the narrative will lose funding and be burned at the stake.
 
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KitsuneAndy said:
Like all of the research that says man made climate change is real, that you choose to ignore? :rolleyes:
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I disagree, I would think than women have some blame too... and lets not go down the trans and non binary routes...:exit:
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Like all of the research that says man made climate change is real, that you choose to ignore? at:rolleyes:
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To repeat myself for the umpteenth time: the climate is changing.

The climate always has changed. While the planet possesses a gaseous atmosphere it always will change. I have always advocated preparing realistically to deal with the situation and its consequences. Unlike the Thunbergians and their ilk, I'm in favour of practical solutions and not in favour of some back to the garden of eden claptrap.
 
Follow the money...

View: https://BANNED/MaajidNawaz/status/1550376750684807168
 
I have an old 4x4 but it hardly gets used these days. It must be quite green by now.

I trod in some soot the the other day. I now have a carbon footprint! :)
 
woof woof said:
For arguments sake...

qkCnhaV.jpg


But please don't spend your time debunking that. My point is that it's possible to make an argument especially if you buy into it and choose your data. As I may have said before, we're not following the science here as anyone who even whispers any science that doesn't fit the narrative will lose funding and be burned at the stake.
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"Joseph Toomey is a career management consultant specializing in economic analysis, corporate finance and global supply chain strategy. His work as a trusted advisor to some of the world’s most prominent corporate names in the oil & gas, oil field services, electric utility, chemicals manufacturing, natural resources and transportation industries in dozens of countries all over the world affords him a solid perspective in energy policy."

Jospeh Toomey seems to be heavily involved in the oil industry.

Perhaps there's a different way of putting the case for renewable energy.

Here we go:

Fossil Fuels will run out.

I suggest, if you don't think Climate change is a problem, that you consider how we will maintain our lifestyles with no (or hugely expensive) fossil fuels. Would be good to hear how that is going to be achieved.
 
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Pound Coin said:
I suggest, if you don't think Climate change is a problem, that you consider how we will maintain our lifestyles with no (or hugely expensive) fossil fuels. Would be good to hear how that is going to be achieved.
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When did I say climate change isn't a problem?

I am worried by a seeming lack of good science in much of this and I'm worried about well meaning (hopefully well meaning...) measures which could back fire catastrophically. For example at the moment with current tech and practices I'm worried that the push to electric cars could be an environmental disaster.
 
Pound Coin said:
No, because it has already been done.

www.aap.com.au

Edited graph obscures truth about global warming | AAP

www.aap.com.au www.aap.com.au
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There has unquestionably been cheating, collusion and lies in this and we're at a point now where the current accepted consensus can't be effectively challenged, as above, follow the money.

All I'm asking is for people to intelligently and reasonably question not only views but also possible motivation but like with other issues there seem to be questions which just are not allowed at this point in time.

Oh, anyone see that Prince Charles quote recently saying we have 18 months to save the planet? From 18 months ago. My point being that if people keep scaremongering and it doesn't happen perhaps it is time to ask questions some find unpalatable.
 
woof woof said:
Oh, anyone see that Prince Charles quote recently saying we have 18 months to save the planet?
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Years ago, there was a hole in the Ozone layer, that was going to fry us all in a couple of years ....
It seems it repaired itself. Nature will always find a way.
 
woof woof said:
My point being that if people keep scaremongering and it doesn't happen perhaps it is time to ask questions some find unpalatable.
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So long as there are daft boogers to reiterate the lies there won't be any useful answers forthcoming.
 
Cobra said:
Years ago, there was a hole in the Ozone layer, that was going to fry us all in a couple of years ....
It seems it repaired itself. Nature will always find a way.
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The banning of CFCs may have played a part in that.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
So long as there are daft boogers to reiterate the lies there won't be any useful answers forthcoming.
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It would be just wonderful if scientists and experts in this and that pursued the truth. That would involve considering a range of questions and answers and stating their mythologies and perish the thought... open and vigorous debate. And all this despite the financial consequence.

Instead we wonder what a woman is.

I don't know why but Churchill comes to mind... Oh Yes...

"Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is."
 
Marc said:
The banning of CFCs may have played a part in that.
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Maybe a sound move and we seem to be able to live without CFC's so that's a big tick in the column but producing millions of batteries and other electronic stuff like solar cells containing no end of dangerous substances with little real recycling seems less sound to me.

I just wish there was more intelligent thought and joined up thinking.
 
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