RSPCA.....WTF!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Edwards
Apparently for causing unnecessary suffering. He was carrying a .22 lr so used that. One of the dogs went down with a head shot but although he dropped the other one he needed a second shot to finish it, and apparently although they accepted that he had a right to shoot (from memory the dogs had already killed 5 shee and he had to finish off 2 others) the .22 was cruel.
I accept that a .22 isn't ideal but that's all that he had at the time, and at least he finished the wounded dog off immediately.

We have sheep and in the same situation I'm sure that I too would use whatever I happened to have in my hand - and I'm far more likely to be holding a .22 or a shotgun than a .243.

I'm surprised they didn't manage a successful prosecution to be honest, different forces seem to have a different views on the shooting of a domesticated animal harassing stock. It would depend very much on the wording on your certificate as to if you were committing an offence or not. I suspect if it was a .22lr it would only have been certified for Vermin. Which a domestic dog might well not qualify as, even when worrying stock.

Wouldn't stop me shooting one if requested to by a farmer.
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He wasn't prosecuted by the police for a possible breach of the terms of his S.1 FAC, he was prosecuted by the RSPCA for causing unnecessary suffering - hardly the same thing.
 
dunganick said:
Tail docking is one of many areas that they have made a balls up on in the recent years.
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I couldn't agree more - I got into a serious spat with a vet on another board over this, even though he admitted he'd never attended a shoot in his life and had no idea what was required of working dogs.
 
dunganick said:
Yes, as they should be.

They should not imply that they have the right to enter your home. (i could of made this clearer in my post).

The complaint was against a barking dog. My friends dogs do not and were not barking, the inspector could of probably noticed this too?
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the inspector probably did notice that the dogs were not barking, but she still had to make a visit and attempt to see the dog in question, it may not have been barking at the time but thats not to say that it hadn't been barking excessively (i believe that at the moment a dog can bark for 10 minutes in every hour, any more and its considered excessive and a complaint can be made- dogs that bark more than that almost always are suffering from something, often boredom when owners leave them alone for prolonged periods)

no she shouldn't have implied that she had the right to enter but if your friend had refused entry she would have left and come back with police backup and a warrant.

if you have nothing to hide then why refuse? by refusing you make yourself look guilty IMO
 
Garry Edwards said:
He wasn't prosecuted by the police for a possible breach of the terms of his S.1 FAC, he was prosecuted by the RSPCA for causing unnecessary suffering - hardly the same thing.
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Perhaps i should rephrase it as - it surprises me that they didn't try this avenue of prosecution. With their dislike of shooting sports i would expect them to try and find anyway to pin it on them. In that respect i guess i am impressed they didn't.
 
Is drowning any worse than battery chickens? They spend the few weeks alive in disgusting conditions and no light or space. Similar too are many pigs especially if they have been kept in stalls. I am not an 'animal lover' as such, don't think this guy did wrong but it does make me laugh that he gets fined, we ban fox hunting but then allow this type of farming and also allow fishing - getting a hook through the mouth and handled out if water must be cruel?

I have little respect for groups like RSPCA with things like this. 20 years ago I found a baby bat on the grass by a tree in our garden. No sign of any bat 30 mins later so thought I would take it Wood green animal shelter about 15 mins away. Got told it was against the law or something to move a bat and that they can't have it and I had to put it back. I did, next morning it was there dead. So letting a baby bat die like that is not cruel?
 
fracster said:
Sorry bud, poison is all too encompassing and can kill things that should not be killed. Chris will put me right on this i`m sure, he knows more about it than I do.

But I WILL NOT use poison for anything.Granted we use to cymag holes,anything in that hole died, those days and practices are long gone, rightly so.
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Fair point, I wont use slug pellets in the garden because of our dog.
I admire you for not using poisons and sticking to traditional methods.
 
Cobra said:
Warfarin but this is
only available to licenced pesties gamekeepers etc
live trapping is about the best method IMHO

edit only usable from 15th March - 15th Aug.
(Warfarin that is)
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Bloody hell, that's the stuff they gave me when I had a blood clot!
I know it's the stuff used for killing rats and perhaps that's why I have developed two protruding front teeth and twitch my nose :)
Seriously though, can you use your birds to cull grey squirrels?
 
panther_87k said:
if you have nothing to hide then why refuse? by refusing you make yourself look guilty IMO
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Certainly, i couldn't agree more. Hence my friend let the inspector in.

I do however take exception to people implying they are in a position of power when they are not, PCSO's being another example (in some cases), they encourage people to apply for the jobs that want an ego boost, i don't feel it works well.

There also seem to be cases of owners of working dogs being targeted (almost every working dog owner i know has had a visit at some point... perhaps anti's reporting them?), this is where issues also lies. Obviously everyone is effected by their personal beliefs at work, but it is wrong to target these people..... But like i said previously, i'm sure there are lots of good inspectors out there and its only the few suspect ones that you hear about.

Could i make anymore posts in this thread :lol:
 
fracster said:
Yes, I fully understand the drowning thing, I honestly admit that we kill greys but do not drown them. But given the case in question, was it really worth the RSPCA going to the lengths they did? Or where they creating headlines?

I do not like the inhumane suffering of any creature, remember a while back when I let a fox out of a snare? Personally, I don`t think drowning is inhumane for greys nor mink.It is unfeasible to take them to the vets,sometimes I rattle them with a .22, if I have the rifle with me,sometimes I don`t,so what should one do?
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Remember your .22 more often? :p

Sorry I have to say while culling is sometimes necessary, drowning is horrid, a quick whack would be less cruel than drowning. Besides.. to be perfectly honest, seeing the finger tip of my Dad (or rather, lack of) where a squirrel bit him years ago, I'd have no desire to actually touch one :eek:

That said, much better than poisoning. I'm also against battery hens.

But the RSPCA was overboard really, I feel a warning would have sufficed. I also find it somewhat ironic a company who regularly puts healthy dogs down, kills dogs onsite rather than bothering with them and don't respond to obvious cases that won't be too easy is so fixed on this.


I'd not let the RSPCA in - they have no rights of access without a warrant, and honestly I have no faith in them whatsoever.

I'm also against tail docking, based on the relatively small amount of the working dogs I've known who have done injury to them. If it was allowed I certainly only feel for a few breeds, not as many as were being docked. :p But so long as they're cared for I don't understand the anti-working stance - in fact in the cases of some dogs a working home is probably the only home they'd be able to be in due to energy needs, I know a few farmers locally have started taking on rescue collies (one took on about a 5 year old dog as she was perfect!) for working as they don't have the worry of whether a pup will do the job, surely better in a working home than put down, but heyho :suspect:



There, I think I've covered every debating subject so far :D
 
What a dilema if you catch a grey. On the one hand you're committing an offence if you release it, on the other you could be prosecuted for killing it. What should you do? Simples, take it to the RSPCA - they're the b****y experts, let them deal with it. :D
 
dunganick said:
Tail docking is one of many areas that they have made a balls up on in the recent years. Yes it might be a fairly painful experience for a young pup, however it is considerably better for them in the long run than constantly splitting tails when working and then having to deal with the infection that often follows or the amputation in some extreme cases.
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Having been present when young pups are docked, can't say I've noticed it as painful, they normally settle back with mum very quickly, and this was in the days of working terriers docked by the breeder. Not been around that side of things for a while but later it went towards banding, seen quite a few tail stumps left looking a mess by that method.
Really would like to see some real statistics on tail damage in working dogs, probably more then people think, and it is a far more painfl procedure to remove a damage tail from an adult dog.
I think Sweden did a survey on tail damage in undaocked GSPs can't remeber the conclusion must go and find it
 
Gremlin said:
Having been present when young pups are docked, can't say I've noticed it as painful, they normally settle back with mum very quickly, and this was in the days of working terriers docked by the breeder. Not been around that side of things for a while but later it went towards banding, seen quite a few tail stumps left looking a mess by that method.
Really would like to see some real statistics on tail damage in working dogs, probably more then people think, and it is a far more painfl procedure to remove a damage tail from an adult dog.
I think Sweden did a survey on tail damage in undaocked GSPs can't remeber the conclusion must go and find it
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I've seen a few surveys and they all seemed heavily biased from 1 side :thumbsdown: So if you find a seemingly unbiased 1 can I has link please? :D
 
Greys= Rat with good PR system in place!!
This has been massively debated on the shooting forums I frequent, usually ends up with townies vs country types!
funnily enough, same with the fox threads
 
When are we gonna take all the grass carp, mirror carp, and commons out of our rivers and let them suffocate on the banks. The things aren't indigenous (sp) so why should we have them in our rivers along with our "own" fish? Catfish too - get them and let die lingering slow suffocating deaths, because that is what Britain has stooped too in the modern day.

And why can't we have wolves and wild boar running wild again - they are indigenous and have every right to be on our land as a wild animal?
 
hashcake said:
Bloody hell, that's the stuff they gave me when I had a blood clot!
I know it's the stuff used for killing rats and perhaps that's why I have developed two protruding front teeth and twitch my nose :)
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Yep it'll do that everytime lol


hashcake said:
Seriously though, can you use your birds to cull grey squirrels?
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Yes in the short answer
Talking of BOP's
I guess some have seen a BOP kill at some time ( there are plenty on You tube) look how long a Sparrow hawk
takes to dispatch a Magpie or pigeon ;)
SK617 said:
Greys= Rat with good PR system in place!!
This has been massively debated on the shooting forums I frequent, usually ends up with townies vs country types!
funnily enough, same with the fox threads
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Yep thats is exactly right
I guess not too many people have seen the amount of destruction a grey causes once inside a roof space ;)
 
Yep thats is exactly right
I guess not too many people have seen the amount of destruction a grey causes once inside a roof space
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:thumbs:I have, unfortunately, and he led a charmed life until he eventually made the mistake of walking into an ounce of lead.

And the amount of damage they cause to our feed hoppers has to be seen to be believed, and the problem is dealing with them - air rifles aren't adequate at the range needed, a rifle causes its own damage to the feed hoppers and that only leaves a shotgun or a trap, and we don't have any traps.
 
Garry Edwards said:
:thumbs:I have, unfortunately, and he led a charmed life until he eventually made the mistake of walking into an ounce of lead.

And the amount of damage they cause to our feed hoppers has to be seen to be believed, and the problem is dealing with them - air rifles aren't adequate at the range needed, a rifle causes its own damage to the feed hoppers and that only leaves a shotgun or a trap, and we don't have any traps.
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:lol:

And yep its amazing what they are actually capable of chewing through isn't ?
 
All you can do is poke the drays in the closed season. But its an expensive (superbly fun) exercise.

At the end of the day they will never be removed from this country unless they contract some disease, which i pray wouldn't be introduced by us, given the sham of mixy'.

Truth is that im sure if we had reds in the numbers we have grays then we would consider them vermin too. I would love to see that day, but i wont.
 
Can I join in? I think drowning a squirrel is not the best way of killing it but those live catch cages are difficult to get animals that bite out of and should not be sold unless the buyer has a way of killing whatever they catch. The comment about getting the RSPCA to deal with it as you can't kill it and can't release it was the best solution. I have no time for the RSPCA as an organisation, have come up against them a few times and a more unhelpful and arrogant bunch (Horsham) I have yet to listen to. On the other hand some of the home managers and staff are great.

Tail docking - someone asked for the other side, not sure which side but this report might meet the bill http://www.cdb.org/News/Veterinary%20Record%20tail%20damage%20report%202010.pdf

Working dogs (services and hunting) can be docked in England (and Wales but not Scotland I think). I am very anti-docking, I have Dobermanns and some of my first litter were docked nearly 25 years ago but never any since unless they were born with badly kinked tails. There is no reason other than cosmetic to dock most dogs.

To link the two subjects, Dobermanns with tails can corner much faster than those without and this is a great aid to my bitch when she is trying to catch the squirrels that come onto the birdfeeders
 
I just trap them, dozens of the gits, and sedate them. While they're sleeping, I tie fishing line around their necks, and the other end around my tow-bar. I then wait until they're awake, and drive. Fast.

The last one alive gets a spade to the face.
 
foodpoison said:
I just trap them, dozens of the gits, and sedate them. While they're sleeping, I tie fishing line around their necks, and the other end around my tow-bar. I then wait until they're awake, and drive. Fast.

The last one alive gets a spade to the face.
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So are you saying you don't like them very much, then? :D
 
foodpoison said:
I just trap them, dozens of the gits, and sedate them. While they're sleeping, I tie fishing line around their necks, and the other end around my tow-bar. I then wait until they're awake, and drive. Fast.

The last one alive gets a spade to the face.
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Meh, heard this before. You saying you have the bottle to tie animals to your car and drive. Fast. ??? On a public road or private land?

Private land + Slingshot = another field (sorted) :lol:
 
Getting back on topic, I found this. It's pretty old and may or may not be accurate. There's a quick reference the the problems that the London North East branch (the branch I was chair of) had with the RSPCA, all those years ago.

What surprises me is how little bad publicity there is. Before we had the www the RSPCA were experts at PR and usually managed to kill most stories about their 'mistakes' but how do they still manage to avoid bad publicity today?
 
Its bloody difficult to shoot them in town. The neighbours tend to complain when little Johnny gets a few bits of lead accidently stuck in him!

I do think the bloke would have been better just whacking the thing over the head though. Not that the RSPCA should have been sticking their noses in on this anyways. I can't stand them, all that money of which they spend very little on anything decent.
 
fracster said:
Sorry mate ,disagree with that.Would you dispatch a rat with humanity?
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Yes...

For that is all greys are.

-cut-

They are not indigenous and create havoc

-cut-.
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Perhaps we should apply your logic and start drowning all illegal immigrants who enter our country. :lol:
 
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