RSPCA.....WTF!

[Cobra]

If they're not indigenous then maybe they can be shipped back to their native lands, probably put up in a nice appartment in Kensington and eventually shipped out in a few years time, unless their offspring appeal as they will now be regarded as british, in which case they will all have to be re-homed in a new freshly built community. Which they will probably leave and after all that they will arrive back in your back garden - so maybe drowning them is too good for them.

 

[TinaC]

I own a Jack Russel who will help if you could supply a suitable environment where the nasty lil critturs can't climb out of reach...

 

[Wail]

<snip>

On the other hand, a swift beheading or a gunshot to the head will be almost instant.

<snip>

Hey, another Saudi amongst us ; and I thought I was the only one here

 

[Mike Jackson]

I've had so many run ins with the RSPCA over various things, even joined in a protest on their main headquarters a few years ago, it's just down the road from me, huge place.
But try and get them to come out for a case of genuine cruelty and they suddenly turn deaf and don;t want to know, they really do annoy me.

I went to a large protest with the dogs outside the headquarters a few years ago as well. I refuse to have anything to do with them and have had quite a few heated discussions with their misguided collectors in the past.

 

[littlemonster]

I should say before all this I'm a major animal lover, and hate cruelty to them.

I think drowning was unnecessarily slow. BUT lethal injections for them all?! That's just ridiculous. Let's ignore the practicalities and cost for a minute, I fail to see how keeping them in a small box, going to a small place, to be handled, then gassed and/or injected into the heart is supposed to the the kind option..? A gun or quick whack to break their neck is much, much kinder, over the done with in seconds, much quicker for them.

I'd love in a way them to all be released, but part of loving animals is knowing that they have to be controlled, the RSPCA seem to not have sight of that. And I'd like to see more reds back in the wild anyway!

As an owner of several pet rats, I'm moving towards home euthanasia where it's needed being a kinder option all around anyway when done correctly.

 

[Gremlin]

I went to a large protest with the dogs outside the headquarters a few years ago as well. I refuse to have anything to do with them and have had quite a few heated discussions with their misguided collectors in the past.

Seems we may have been at the same one then, I kinda eneded up with a multitude of dogs as usual, including flatcoats and GSPs

 

[CT]

I don't think you can defend drowning it - it's far too slow and there's little doubt the animal woud have suffered unnecessarily. I'm not the biggest fan of the RSPCA but to be fair to them in this instance, they'd received a complaint to which they've responded, and there was obviously a witness to the incident.

Just because it's vermin doesn't excuse you from dispatching it with a little respect, so I don't have much sympathy for the geezer.

 

[Lynton]

Hey, another Saudi amongst us ; and I thought I was the only one here

lol........ quote of the week.......... I would mention that it caused me to spill alcohol over my keyboard, but I probably cannot say that given you are from Saudi........ Whats the penalty for having a beer there?

 

[fracster]

lol........ quote of the week.......... I would mention that it caused me to spill alcohol over my keyboard, but I probably cannot say that given you are from Saudi........ Whats the penalty for having a beer there?

Chased into a sack and battered with a shovel?..................:shrug:

 

[fracster]

Just because it's vermin doesn't excuse you from dispatching it with a little respect, so I don't have much sympathy for the geezer.

Sorry mate ,disagree with that.Would you dispatch a rat with humanity? For that is all greys are.They ruin any birdlife they can get into,they eat eggs and young birds with wanton abandon. They are not indigenous and create havoc, so should we not wage war on them?


Without mentioning the pox they inflict on our RS`s.

 

[Skyline On Fire]

As someone who's done his fair share of pest control/hunting, I think he deserves the fine. Drowning it is completely unacceptable. A shot to the head even with a .22 air rifle would instantly dispatch it, or a few blows to the head. This was unacceptable cruelty, and zero reason for it. So many better ways to do this.

 

[Wail]

lol........ quote of the week.......... I would mention that it caused me to spill alcohol over my keyboard, but I probably cannot say that given you are from Saudi........ Whats the penalty for having a beer there?

Depends on who you know, I guess :shrug: ... helps to know people in all the right places, especially if you're a squirrel on this thread

Chased into a sack and battered with a shovel?..................:shrug:

That's what we do for foreplay

 

[Techno-Geek]

I own a Jack Russel who will help if you could supply a suitable environment where the nasty lil critturs can't climb out of reach...

Think that would technically be classed as animal cruelty, boxing them in and shooting them in any way shape or form is classed as cruelty if i remember correctly. If not trained correctly......

 

[CT]

Sorry mate ,disagree with that.Would you dispatch a rat with humanity? For that is all greys are.They ruin any birdlife they can get into,they eat eggs and young birds with wanton abandon. They are not indigenous and create havoc, so should we not wage war on them?


Without mentioning the pox they inflict on our RS`s.

I think you're way off the beam there mate. Greys didn't ask to be here - we introduced them. I dislike them as much as you, but they're only doing what loads of other species do - woodpeckers are wanton killers of young song birds and stealers of eggs. :shrug:

Greys are a huge problem and I'm all for them being extensively culled, but just because you dislike a particular species doesn't mean you have a right to deliberately inflict uneccessary suffering on it surely, and I'd suggest there's something wrong in your make-up somewhere if you'd want to?

And yes- of course I'd kill a rat humanely.

 

[hashcake]

I can't see what all the fuss is about, the guy used a cruel method that is not humane and he got what he deserved.
Even though I am an animal lover I totally agree that none indigenous species that are classed as pests should be controlled.
We can now legally net and shoot ring necked parakeets and I totally agree with this

There must be a suitable poison that pest controllers use for the grey squirrel and this would've cost him far less than the fine.

 

[Cobra]

There must be a suitable poison that pest controllers use for the grey squirrel and this would've cost him far less than the fine.

Warfarin but this is
only available to licenced pesties gamekeepers etc
live trapping is about the best method IMHO

edit only usable from 15th March - 15th Aug.
(Warfarin that is)

 

[fracster]

Yes, I fully understand the drowning thing, I honestly admit that we kill greys but do not drown them. But given the case in question, was it really worth the RSPCA going to the lengths they did? Or where they creating headlines?

I do not like the inhumane suffering of any creature, remember a while back when I let a fox out of a snare? Personally, I don`t think drowning is inhumane for greys nor mink.It is unfeasible to take them to the vets,sometimes I rattle them with a .22, if I have the rifle with me,sometimes I don`t,so what should one do?

 

[Koolpc]

One of my mates always shoots grey squirrels with his air rifle when they climb into his garden!

I hate pigeons and seagulls. Cities seem to be overrun with them and their poo!

 

[fracster]

There must be a suitable poison that pest controllers use for the grey squirrel and this would've cost him far less than the fine.

Sorry bud, poison is all too encompassing and can kill things that should not be killed. Chris will put me right on this i`m sure, he knows more about it than I do.

But I WILL NOT use poison for anything.Granted we use to cymag holes,anything in that hole died, those days and practices are long gone, rightly so.

 

[Garry Edwards]

The RSPCA (in general) represent nothing more than a bunch of bunny hugging short sighted morons usually on a power trip. Their grasp of reality is highly questionable, however they unfortunately do some good work which helps fund some of the more stupid things they do, such as getting involved with areas they know very little about.... such as tail docking.

Which RSPCA are we talking about here?
That's not intended to be a flippant question, because in my experience there are 2 very separate groups...
There are the inspectors and local volunteers, often misguided but well meaning people who do their best for animals.
And there's the headquarters staff, overpaid and overqualified people whose job it is to formulate policy, 'educate' the public and politicians and raise money, at the same time doing their level best to avoid 'wasting' money on things like animal welfare.

Harsh words? How about their 'Freedom Foods' scheme? It means absolutely nothing in terms of animal welfare because all that participating farmers actually have to do is to 'aspire' to improve the lives of the animals involved - and pay an annual fee for their right to use the logo.

Many years ago I was a Branch Chairman. It took me a while to realise that the only valued function of branches is to raise money for headquarters, and to act as unpaid inspectors, and especially in areas like ours where they didn't even have an inspector. In fact I came to realise (eventually) that my main qualification as far as they were concerned was that I held a Firearms Certificate, so could deal with the unwanted animals for them.

Personally I don't feel that drowning is acceptable (although of course thousands if not millions of rabbits are accidentally drowned in their burrows in heavy rain and flooding) but not everyone has access to a shotgun and not everyone can bring themselves to hit an animal with a spade, but surely advice would have been better than prosecution?

And as for taking it to a vet for a lethal injection, imprisoning and transporting a wild animal would be torture, not kindness.

A year or so ago, a local farmer was prosecuted by the RSPCA for shooting dogs that he caught in the act of attacking his sheep - fortunately the magistrates had more sense than the RSPCA and the case was dismissed

 

[fracster]

A year or so ago, a local farmer was prosecuted by the RSPCA for shooting dogs that he caught in the act of attacking his sheep - fortunately the magistrates had more sense than the RSPCA and the case was dismissed

What? Why the blazes,or even how, could they prosecute him for that Garry?

 

[Cobra]

Sorry bud, poison is all too encompassing and can kill things that should not be killed. Chris will put me right on this i`m sure, he knows more about it than I do.

But I WILL NOT use poison for anything.Granted we use to cymag holes,anything in that hole died, those days and practices are long gone, rightly so.

As above Ade
Poisoning only to be done in "special hoppers" that exclude all other wildlife
( well mostly)
and not really that effective anyway
Kania traps for woodland
live traps for homes and gardens IMO are the best methods

 

[CT]

Well - I wouldn't like to be drowned Frac and I don't suppose it would be any more pleasant for the squidger.

The point is the grey is a wild animal and not subject to any cruelty laws at all - UNTIL its reduced into captivity as this one was, when animal cruelty laws then apply. This guy could have dispatched the squidger far more humanely than he did and there wouldn't have been a case.

How many pheasants/ ducks get striped on a typical shooting day but don't get picked up despite the best efforts of the dogs and beaters? Many of those will suffer terribly, but (a) it's not deliberate, and (b) it's a wild animal- not in captivity and has no protection from cruelty laws. Despite this, you and I know that on any decent shoot no effort is spared to pick those birds.

As for what you should do - I was with a gamekeeper once - not a gun between us -miles from anywhere and we found a very sick sheep which he dispatched very quickly with a stone. :shrug:
.

 

[Cobra]

Which RSPCA are we talking about here?
That's not intended to be a flippant question, because in my experience there are 2 very separate groups...

Interesting Garry
I had always suspected something along those lines
Nice to have it confirmed

 

[fracster]

Kania and fens are all well and good Chris, but re: our recent telecon/pm chat, Reds don`t distinguish between traps.Hence we don`t use them now, we cage pretty much everything, we have reds close by and I would be aghast if we killed one by mistake.

 

[Garry Edwards]

What? Why the blazes,or even how, could they prosecute him for that Garry?

Apparently for causing unnecessary suffering. He was carrying a .22 lr so used that. One of the dogs went down with a head shot but although he dropped the other one he needed a second shot to finish it, and apparently although they accepted that he had a right to shoot (from memory the dogs had already killed 5 shee and he had to finish off 2 others) the .22 was cruel.
I accept that a .22 isn't ideal but that's all that he had at the time, and at least he finished the wounded dog off immediately.

We have sheep and in the same situation I'm sure that I too would use whatever I happened to have in my hand - and I'm far more likely to be holding a .22 or a shotgun than a .243.

 

[fracster]

Well - I wouldn't like to be drowned Frac and I don't suppose it would be any more pleasant for the squidger.

The point is the grey is a wild animal and not subject to any cruelty laws at all - UNTIL its reduced into captivity as this one was, when animal cruelty laws then apply. This guy could have dispatched the squidger far more humanely than he did and there wouldn't have been a case.

How many pheasants/ ducks get striped on a typical shooting day but don't get picked up despite the best efforts of the dogs and beaters? Many of those will suffer terribly, but (a) it's not deliberate, and (b) it's a wild animal- not in captivity and has no protection from cruelty laws. Despite this, you and I know that on any decent shoot no effort is spared to pick those birds.

As for what you should do - I was with a gamekeeper once - not a gun between us -miles from anywhere and we found a very sick sheep which he dispatched very quickly with a stone. :shrug:
.

As ever, the voice of reason and sense....

But I do find it odd that the chap was prosecuted by the relevant authorities, we are talking about a furry tailed rat here, surely they have more needy cases to attend to..........:shrug:

 

[Cobra]

Kania and fens are all well and good Chris, but re: our recent telecon/pm chat, Reds don`t distinguish between traps.Hence we don`t use them now, we cage pretty much everything, we have reds close by and I would be aghast if we killed one by mistake.

obviously if there are reds about only live traps will do
There are non down here, though Ade

 

[fracster]

obviously if there are reds about only live traps will do
There are non down here, though Ade

Fair comment Chris.

But if we eradicted the greys, then you would have reds.......................

 

[Cobra]

But if we eradicted the greys, then you would have reds.......................

Goddamn it mate I am doing the best that I can!

 

[fracster]

Goddamn it mate I am doing the best that I can!

Likewise mate, likewise............

 

[Garry Edwards]

As ever, the voice of reason and sense....

But I do find it odd that the chap was prosecuted by the relevant authorities, we are talking about a furry tailed rat here, surely they have more needy cases to attend to..........:shrug:

He wasn't prosecuted by a 'relevant authority' - he was prosecuted by a charity that would like to be an authority...

 

[dunganick]

Which RSPCA are we talking about here?
That's not intended to be a flippant question, because in my experience there are 2 very separate groups...
There are the inspectors and local volunteers, often misguided but well meaning people who do their best for animals.
And there's the headquarters staff, overpaid and overqualified people whose job it is to formulate policy, 'educate' the public and politicians and raise money, at the same time doing their level best to avoid 'wasting' money on things like animal welfare.

Without a doubt you are correct. The organisation has some good intentions, and does do lots of great work to help particularly the awareness of domestic animal cruelty as well as re-homing etc...

However my main gripe lies with their attitude to areas that by the nature of their staff and the organisation they have little understand of. Working animals and the working environment is my main point.

Tail docking is one of many areas that they have made a balls up on in the recent years. Yes it might be a fairly painful experience for a young pup, however it is considerably better for them in the long run than constantly splitting tails when working and then having to deal with the infection that often follows or the amputation in some extreme cases.

I would also call into question some of their wardens/officers, whilst this is probably difficult to judge as you only hear of the bad ones. I have a friend that had the RSPCA turn up at his house and demand they allow them to see his dog (was actually 3 dogs... great research) as 'it' was in distress apparently. He invited the officer in (which he was aware he didn't have to) and showed her 3 very happy, well looked after working dogs. She left, although apparently did not accept his offer of some fresh rabbit or pigeon.

I do defiantly agree that animals deserve to die in a respectful and humane manner, drowning is not right, even for vermin such as Grey's.

 

[CT]

LOL. So if I shoot your dog for crapping on my garden - head shot - clean kill - what do I get charged with?

 

[fracster]

LOL. So if I shoot your dog for crapping on my garden - head shot - clean kill - what do I get charged with?

Being a wanton killer of all wildlife...............

 

[CT]

Come on - it's not murder!

 

[panther_87k]

I would also call into question some of their wardens/officers, whilst this is probably difficult to judge as you only hear of the bad ones. I have a friend that had the RSPCA turn up at his house and demand they allow them to see his dog (was actually 3 dogs... great research) as 'it' was in distress apparently. He invited the officer in (which he was aware he didn't have to) and showed her 3 very happy, well looked after working dogs. She left, although apparently did not accept his offer of some fresh rabbit or pigeon.

RSPCA inspectors can only go by the information given by the complainant, and they have to react on ALL complaints of potential cruelty. Clearly this inspector was happy with your friends dogs and would have reported things as so in any records then kept on file.

 

[dunganick]

Apparently for causing unnecessary suffering. He was carrying a .22 lr so used that. One of the dogs went down with a head shot but although he dropped the other one he needed a second shot to finish it, and apparently although they accepted that he had a right to shoot (from memory the dogs had already killed 5 shee and he had to finish off 2 others) the .22 was cruel.
I accept that a .22 isn't ideal but that's all that he had at the time, and at least he finished the wounded dog off immediately.

We have sheep and in the same situation I'm sure that I too would use whatever I happened to have in my hand - and I'm far more likely to be holding a .22 or a shotgun than a .243.

I'm surprised they didn't manage a successful prosecution to be honest, different forces seem to have a different views on the shooting of a domesticated animal harassing stock. It would depend very much on the wording on your certificate as to if you were committing an offence or not. I suspect if it was a .22lr it would only have been certified for Vermin. Which a domestic dog might well not qualify as, even when worrying stock.

Wouldn't stop me shooting one if requested to by a farmer.

 

[fracster]

Come on - it's not murder!

Taggart says it was...........

G`night bud.

 

[dunganick]

RSPCA inspectors can only go by the information given by the complainant, and they have to react on ALL complaints of potential cruelty. Clearly this inspector was happy with your friends dogs and would have reported things as so in any records then kept on file.

Yes, as they should be.

They should not imply that they have the right to enter your home. (i could of made this clearer in my post).

The complaint was against a barking dog. My friends dogs do not and were not barking, the inspector could of probably noticed this too?